Lockers worth the money (1 Viewer)

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Hi Guys and Girls,

I am restoring a HJ60 with a HJ61 chassis and 12HT engine. Axles are Full floating.
(I will be updating my build topic soon. So much picture to sort out!)

The whole project is costing me allot of money (new paintjob, welding, clutch,motoroverhaul,interior,leaf susp). so I need your advice how to spend it well.
Shall I buy a good winch and a new turbo ore buy second hand manual locking locker axles (found them for €1800).
I want to make my car a almost daily driver and overland vehicle. Africa is a dream to go to.
I dont want to hardcore 4x4 drive is but a bit over greenlaneing would be nice!
I see allot of guys go for the ARb airlocker but due to its failing rate/africe no mech around ratio I am not so temped.

Big question. Is lockers a must?
 
Hi. I am in the same boat as you. I have thought long and hard about lockers.
I also have a full floating front and rear axle. (well front is on all NA speced vehicles)

I decided that while I would like lockers, the amount of time I would used them would not justify the cost and bought a good winch. With that I bought a good winch and I also bought the recovery gear needed for just about any situation. I light offroaded for years, Fire trails and old logging roads and some bushwhacking. I never had a locker and always had a winch or hand winch (brutal).
They are still a dream, but I just cannot justify the $$.

I had a locker in my FJCruiser and used it once just to try it out. I was going up a rather rough trail that was slippery and covered in roots and really was the harder line of the 2 options I had. But I wanted to try it out. It made it, but I am not convinced the locker helped.

Think of it like this. IF you had lockers (great for those situations when you do not want to get out of your vehicle) it saved time. But you can live without them.
Stay away form the mechanical lunchbox type for anything onroad.
If you do go that route, Look at electric lockers. With a FF you have more choices than just air.

If it were me, I would get the winch, and replace the turbo. Think of the $$ you save and buy spares for your trip, these will be more valuable than lockers IMO.
 
A locker can’t get stolen off the front of your truck with four bolts
 
I would lock the rear which is usually sufficient. That cuts your cost in half.

And put a winch on it, because even lockers can't cope with mud.
 
Agree 100% with @Cruiserdrew.
I don’t think front locker is really needed unless you’re running hard trails for the sake of running hard trails.
 
A locker can’t get stolen off the front of your truck with four bolts
Either can a winch if you weld the bolts or use those security nuts.

But you are correct, you need to secure that winch. I can take mine off without removing the bumper (well not so easy any more).

A locker does nothing for you when your stuck in the mud or sand, high centered, need to help pull a buddy out, feel like driving up a tree. or in the case of Top Gear, up the side of a dam. @Cruiserdrew addressed that.
 
My fj60 (which I no longer own, but had for 30 years) had lockers front & rear AND a big winch in the front.

This is my experience:
Without lockers I would have lost my vehicle over a cliff when I had to back down a narrow dead end mountain trail and the front wheel went off the side.

Without lockers, several times in its life my cruiser would have been permanently stuck in a hole/trench with no way to get out since there was nothing to attach the winch cable to.

Without lockers my cruiser would be sunk permanently in deep mud or sunk in the ocean a couple times. The lockers were the only thing that barely got me out. Once again: nothing to winch too.

Without lockers I could never have gone to (or left) the most incredible camping spots Ive ever been. The winch was no help.

In fact - I removed my winch after dragging it around for decades cuz in my experience (Desert environment) it was pretty much useless dead weight since there was never an anchor point for it.

Of all my upgrades on my cruiser that I did, I considered lockers the most important off road. Way more important than insurance- because they are insurance.

In fact, if my ARB system ever went down (for some reason, which it never did) I wouldn't leave on an offroad trip until it worked.

That's how important I deemed the lockers to be.
The only time I really needed to use the winch was to extract other stuck vehicles. I did that lots of times. Not once did I ever truly need the winch to save my cruiser. Never. But I never traveled where there were any trees or strong anchor points.

I can say with certainty on the other hand that the lockers saved my life (and cruiser) several times.

At least that's my experience.

When you need lockers it's usually panic time. s*** is going down and the heartbeat starts racing. Your lockers are your ticket to freedom in that situation and in my experience at least (based on my use with them) you want to lock both axles. Front and rear.
 
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In fairness to the need of a winch in OSS's comments, with the exception of the over the cliff scenario (i have never been in that situation and hope to never be), having the proper equipment to backup a winch is important.

Sand ladders (those plastic ones or the old school aluminium/metal ones) A land anchor like a Pull Pal or just burying your spare tire.
Extra cable or synthetic rope, shovel, correct straps, snatch block etc. It is also very important you understand how to use these.
Hell a Hi-Lift can work as a winch in a pinch.

As a matter of fact having the right combination is good. Lockers in OSS's case could have also dug him in deeper., but they would have helped get him unstuck faster than non locked, while winching out.

As an example;

I have a winch on the front of my rig, yes. but then I also know how to use it and when to use it. I have never been in a situation where lockers would have helped, mud or otherwise. The times I did use mine, I was glad to have it.
For years I mainly used my rig for fire roads, old logging roads and several off course roads. I have had water up to the head lights, in mud with proper tires, been stuck several times and always dug myself out or was able to use my jack to get something under a drive wheel.
I have pulled out guys who have been very stuck (to the axles) using a couple of snatch blocks and good rigging.
Plus I cannot think of how many people I have towed out of ditches or snow banks with it.

Here is a good thing from a beach near by
OSV (over sand vehicles) required to carry.

- A shovel with a blade at least 6" square and at least 18" long.
- A vehicle jack sufficient to lift one wheel clear of the sand.
- A jack support that is at least 12"x12" of non-bending steel, 5/8" plywood or 1½" hardwood.
- A tire gauge with a minimum reading of 15 pounds or less.
- A tow rope or tow strap, chain or cable with a minimum pulling strength of 6,000 pounds and at least 10 feet long. Minimum diameter is ½" for nylon or Dacron ropes; ¾" for all other ropes; ¼" for carbon steel cable; 5/16" for chain links.

Nothing on a winch or lockers.

In the end the question comes to this. If you are thinking about going to Africa and overlanding down there. Then build according to where you will be or plan to be.
A winch and lockers will be helpful no matter how you look at it. There are thousands of stories on how one is better than the other and in the end the combination of both is the best solution. Hard core off road...both. Light off road, you need to think about that.
 
lot of different opinions on this but I've definitely been on trails you couldn't drive certain obstacles without lockers.
Generally those spots are few and far between so you can winch past those. Lockers in rocky terrain like the southwest USA
let you travel slower and with more precision which is better for the truck. Selectable lockers give you the option of using
your driving experience to avoid damage. Birfields are the weak link so always running the front locked up is probably not the
best idea. Being able to turn the lockers off on icy sidehills is nice. I've run air lockers in everything since the 90s when they came
readily available. I even have one of the old Roberts lockers, the original, before ARB took over. Broke a lot of axles over the years but never an ARB
 
If you have a FF rear axle, you just might have factory limited slip. Check your data plate for the K085 designator.
 
If you plan on travelling alone when you are not daily driving then I would invest in a locker before a winch. Let's say you get your locker then you start shopping winches. For god's sake, please don't buy a cheap winch. Buy used or a good name brand or buy twice.

ARB failure rates (ie air leakage pass the seal) was an old design problem which was upgraded and fixed with the current new versions. A properly installed air locker will not fail and if you buy the fancy dual arb compressor you can air up and run air tools. Lots of options and ways to go.
 
I say go lockers and a nice set of maxtrax. Like stated above the winch only works if there is an anchor point. If not it’s dead weight on the front.
 
Yes
 
I say go lockers and a nice set of maxtrax. Like stated above the winch only works if there is an anchor point. If not it’s dead weight on the front.

Maxtrax? Lol.
 
A locker can’t get stolen off the front of your truck with four bolts


Yeah, but why steal just the winch when you can steal your entire FJ62 with my worn down 60 key. if not, a screwdriver..
 
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I bought a slightly used mechanical locker for the rear. I have since been in a couple situations where it mad all the difference in the world. Totally worth the $100 I spent on it. I also run a winch just in case.
 
Next time you are doing work on the front axle I'd throw in a mechanical locker. Simple, cheap and very effective and because you don't drive on Tarmac in 4wd it doesn't impact drive ability.

I'd then drive it and see how it goes with just a front locker, if you get more serious down the track fit a rear air locker. (Rear is a much easier install).

Lockers help as you can take obsticals much slower which reduces the chance of breaking something.
 
If you plan on travelling alone when you are not daily driving then I would invest in a locker before a winch. Let's say you get your locker then you start shopping winches. For god's sake, please don't buy a cheap winch. Buy used or a good name brand or buy twice.

ARB failure rates (ie air leakage pass the seal) was an old design problem which was upgraded and fixed with the current new versions. A properly installed air locker will not fail and if you buy the fancy dual arb compressor you can air up and run air tools. Lots of options and ways to go.

Interesting, I presently have 7 , in 4 trucks, 4 of which are between 15 and 20 years old, one is30 Y/O and never had a failure. I've had air leaks in lines and compressors, maybe even one internal leak but it's never been bad enough that the compressor didn't keep up. The worst I recall had the compressor cycling every 30 seconds for a short burst. The oldest one, a Roberts locker had a design defect. The carrier had four bolts instead of eight holding it together and the four bolts had a tendency to loosen in time. ARB redesigned some things and, added a four extra
bolts and
 
With a rear full floating axle, also consider looking into the Harrop locker.

Rear locker is certainly a worthwhile upgrade for a vehicle that will be used in the manner a Land Cruiser was designed for. It opens up new opportunity to go further with more control.
 

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