Front suspension spacers/levelling kit, do they work with the GX470? (4 Viewers)

[BlackCat]

Ahh Got it.
I crawled under to look after my last post and it made sense..
Now your descriptions demonstrate that clearly... By pushing the assembly down w/o adjusting bump stops then the shock's compression on up-travel becomes the bump stop. just moving the fuse to a $pendy place

So going cheap with mods is a spacer and an equal bumpstop spacer... but that's a double hack.
Therefore again, Pay to play; Cry once; Do it once, do it right. Gotcha.

Thanks for clearing that up...

Now, a follow up question...(which is likely answered in other lift threads) By doing a Bilstein 5100 coil over lift (or somperable), that supersedes the dial-able ride quality feature right? Is there a coil over kit that taps into the circuit and maintains the variable valve dampening of the sport dial while affording coil over awesomeness?

Nope. But if you buy a good quality kit you won’t notice a difference. If you like the suspension in sport setting, you’ll like most of the quality kits available. Want to spend a ton of coin? Get some ICON’s with CDC valving.

I get most people lift on a budget. But remember, you get what you pay for. I have roughly $3k into my suspension and even that isn’t a lot when comparing to people like Dan and Josh and several others who have $10-15k in suspension alone. Save the money, don’t lift just to lift. Do it right the first time and you’ll love it.

 

[Arailt]

Now, a follow up question...(which is likely answered in other lift threads) By doing a Bilstein 5100 coil over lift (or somperable), that supersedes the dial-able ride quality feature right? Is there a coil over kit that taps into the circuit and maintains the variable valve dampening of the sport dial while affording coil over awesomeness?

Yes, you'll lose the dampening control if you replace the factory struts/shocks. Almost any aftermarket setup will be as stiff or stiffer than the "sport" setting.

 

[DRANGED]

This is what can happen if you lift with a top plate spacer and don't extend the bumpstop. Shock becomes bumpstop, shock bottoms out and fails (from a Tacoma).

Still curious..

Moar info requested...
So is this a standard Taco bilstein shock upgrade with a levelling spacer? How much lift in the spacer?

Would a longer shock and leveling spacer be the better way, so with a longer travel shock, it's not bottoming out before an unmodified bump stop?? I see a million tacos with spacer kits on them (2"-3" commonly), in fact I have a rallying buddy with a 3" (I think) on his and no problems.. I guess he goes fast more than deep compression, but I know he jumps it on dirt (likely cattle guards, I'm sure, etc.) and I can't imagine so many of those spacer-lifted tacos have troubles.. Maybe they're not really wheeling them with near max compression, but still. . .

it begs the question. . .

Don't get me wrong, you guys have provided that's convincing evidence and articulation as to why one shouldn't rely on a spacer lift/leveling alone, but if one goes that route (if even just as a low co$t interim measure), then bump stop mods should also happen too. and given the geometry where a spacer's height affords 2x the lift, then where's the pivot and given the pivot for the multiplication of lift, would the bump stop spacer be equal to lift gained vs. spacer thickness?

It follows: What is the margin of safety the bump stop provides? Ergo, if at full compression to interact with the bump stop, how much shock compression remains in the stock suspension?


inquiring minds are still mulling and anylizing. . . .

 

[GXO]

The bump stop is the ONLY margin of safety in this use case. If you don't extend the bump stop it is just a fuse and a matter of time.

 

[DRANGED]

I understand the mechanics of why a spacer lift is less than ideal and yet I just see a ton of them out there.

(*caveat* I'm not trying to be a PITA, and I understand why a spacer is not as useful or functional as a coil over, or classic spring/shock swap and/or control arms and ball joints or a comprehensive long travel setup. I'm interested in really fleshing out this thread's topic. With so many spacer lifts out there, there's got to be a functional and useful market/audience for them)

If they're all just ticking time bombs, why are there so many out there?
Is it that those rigs are not used to a greater/max articulation use and thus these spacer-lifted rigs don't approach the fuse of devastation?
Is this just eye-candy bling and marketing? In the following Tire Rack add, it suggests full suspension use, stays within spec and all's well... (this from recent Tire Rack mag/catalogue).

TireRack spacer lift

• DRANGED
• Apr 6, 2018

I certainly see the appeal of the low co$t magic bullet of lift w/o compromise at low co$t. And I understand the mechanics you guys have illustrated and articulated for their failure and hazard... BUT THERE ARE JUST SO MANY OUT THERE.. . .

Here's yet another spacer lift, on what appears (to me) to be factory shocks and springs... 2" gain, maybe 3"?

07 FJ 2" spacer lift?

• DRANGED
• Apr 6, 2018

2"-3" spacer lift

• DRANGED
• Apr 6, 2018

stock spring and shock (aka strut)

• DRANGED
• Apr 6, 2018

stock shock

• DRANGED
• Apr 6, 2018

2" FJ lift no bump stop accommodation

• DRANGED
• Apr 6, 2018

moar discussion requested.

 

[Arailt]

They aren't necessarily "ticking timebombs," they just aren't the ideal or proper way to lift a vehicle that's going to see rough roads.

The bottom line is there are so many out there because 1.) they're cheap and 2.) consumers are uneducated. In reality, the vast majority of people who run those lifts will never leave the pavement and/or never push their suspensions hard enough to break stuff, so no harm, no foul.

 

[DRANGED]

with a new stick...

With much research and $38 shipped for a 0.75" puck, I pulled the trigger and got it done...nothing's permanent should it suck, and for that price it's totally worth a shot. This co$t doesn't really factor into the " save your money for a real lift" argument.

Again, for me, I just want a scosh more clearance under the skid. I like the ride, handling and travel in the stock setup. It's a family hauler and weeknd camping rig, albeit weekend camping includes the 4-hour radius around moab. . .

Beef Basin and elephant hill in spring, Elk ridge this weekend, Needles and E. Hill next month, The Maze for Thanksgiving... ya know... local stuff.

rear of front wheel arch

hub to fender, driver

low point of front of stock oil pan skid

Low point of engine skid with KDSS

axle geometry with old sagging springs.

So, I'm looking to rectify the bump stop concern and while building a drop spacer is appealing, these things exist...moar research needed

discuss. . .

 

[Jstawgn]

That 3/4" Puck will net 1.5" of lift. That would be the maximum that is still safe with stock shock and upper control arm.
I been running the same thing for 5 months. The only difference I add 1/4 more on the driver's side to compensate for driver's side KDSS lean.

Two weeks ago I change the upper control arm with SPC (new style forge in US arm). When I took the OEM upper control arm out I definitely could tell the driver's side bottom out at full extension. The ball joint felt much looser compared to the passenger side that does not have additional spacer. I could feel the ball lips have open up a bit around full extension.

So a 3/4" spacer that should net 1.5" lift is the absolute maximum you can do safely.

I am installing Tough dog adjustable this weekend with a bunch of other maintenance item. The leveling spacer is just temporary before I decide which suspension to go at that time.

 

[DRANGED]

Found the reference with the busted shock on page one.

Lifted and Leveling Struts vs. Strut Spacers - Pros, Cons, and Risks

I think this is becoming a great thread for info on those spacers.

 

[GXMac]

with a new stick...

So, I'm looking to rectify the bump stop concern and while building a drop spacer is appealing, these things exist...moar research needed

discuss. . .

The Wheeler's bump stops are a much softer compound that the stock, obviously, so you will still need to buy spacers for the bumps (or make your own). I think you would still need spacers, even with lift struts or coilovers based on some other discussions I've seen.

 

[DRANGED]

The Wheeler's bump stops are a much softer compound that the stock, obviously, so you will still need to buy spacers for the bumps (or make your own). I think you would still need spacers, even with lift struts or coilovers based on some other discussions I've seen.

Copy. Yeah the wheelers bumpstop video looks like they're installed with a coilover kit too.
The other link I provided gives good info on spacers vs coilovers /strut compressor leveling kit. I like how it explains the limitation of up travel as we've discussed Ad nauseam here and the need for dropping the bump stop, as well as how it describes the limiting down travel with a strut top puck. My understanding of down travel limitation is the articulation of the ball joint. It sounds like from above a three-quarter inch puck is just within spec of the natural articulation of the ball joints, but maybe maxing them out. And why a one and a half inch Puck would be too extreme for lc 120 (why they're okay on tacos, not sure... or just that those are rarely fully articulated... i have a sample size of one that is used, buddy with 04 taco on 1.5 puck.... but that anecdote) ball joints....

So yeah, making a spacer is on the radar for the next 3 weeks minimum. I think, maybe a 5/8 spacer for the bump stop, as the bump stop is inboard, ergo closer the fulcrum/pivot point of the LCA, of the strut, so scaling the geometry, sub 0.75" and maybe > 0.5" for the bump stop spacer drop...

Hopefully there is enough stud I can just add the spacer and call it goo, vs. make a captive thread, and fixed stud unit...
I need to get into it to see what's what.

 

[DRANGED]

compared side-by-side to stock on street tires (caveat my silver 07 has 265*70 17s).

running board line (and same line w/o RB)

front center of engine skid

So that's all impressive for the 3/4" spacer BUT here's the crux I need to address.
dropping the front bump stop, I think 5/8" is about right...

So that's a trick when the stock bump stop's thread is @ 5/8"... hmm

 

[Jstawgn]

I think the bump stop are a bit more inside. It's like 1:3 ratio. I would do 1/4 since the Strut have some safety margin.

 

[runningdrew]

with a new stick...

With much research and $38 shipped for a 0.75" puck.......




.discuss. . .

So looking and reading this thread it looks like you added the spacer to the front only correct, and using factory bags in the back? Is your factory front dampening still active? Feedback so far....?

I'm not going to be doing any crazy off-road crawling, but I do want an inch or two more clearance up front to level for looks and to clear some bigger rocks on the trails.

 

[DRANGED]

I think the bump stop are a bit more inside. It's like 1:3 ratio. I would do 1/4 since the Strut have some safety margin.

@Jstawgn

Cool! seems reasonable. I don't want to go too short, BUT it does seem like the stops make contact @ or near full stuff (sample size of one...), so i thought 3/8" would be okay. Above I linked pix of stock vs. this spacer puck and the bump stop's moved about 0.5".

• 0.75" spacer
• bump stop 0.5" difference
• ground clearance circa 1.5" difference.

CAVEAT: I know my droop may be stressing ball joints and may technically be extending TOO far and my compression may be compromised by inadequate bump stops making the shock act as the compression limiter...thus the bump stop drop.

1/4" spacer will be easier to fab than the 3/8"
I have steel plate in both thicknesses but my hole saw sux. Grinder and cut-off wheel may be how I go, but of course i would PREFER the pretty of a hole saw blade

So, I'll probably fab a pair of 1/4" spacers and test it next weekend, and I'll have data to report.

 

[DRANGED]

So looking and reading this thread it looks like you added the spacer to the front only correct, and using factory bags in the back? Is your factory front dampening still active? Feedback so far....?

I'm not going to be doing any crazy off-road crawling, but I do want an inch or two more clearance up front to level for looks and to clear some bigger rocks on the trails.

@runningdrew

Yes. Puck spacer as leveling kit to front only. All else is fully stock: rear functioning airbags, front stock springs/shocks (struts). rear ride height functions as does ride quality (sport-comfort selector).

I've gained a functional 1.25-1.5" at the front skid plate and with my 165*70 17 tires my skid is right about 9 7/8" from the ground.

I've done moderate to easy-difficult trails stock (plus tires) and am very pleased/impressed with the stock articulation and capabilities BUT I touch the front skid more than i'd like to.

I haven't done any off-roading with this lift yet, but next week I'm going to the needles and elephant hill as my first test. That trip is a dry-run for a maze trip (less technical but more remote in the maze). So load distribution and packing will be keys. LOTS of water and I'll bring spare fuel. We're going with friends so reducing redundancies by sharing gear.

At this point, given all the detailed discussion ad nauseam, I'd tentatively say "yes", it's functional and raises the front. All stock dampening, airbags and KDSS work as normal. Stand by for further review.

It is very strong consideration that folks read and understand the details in a puck lift/leveling spacer. It's not quite a cheap-free lift. Too high can be catastrophic. I think I saw 0.5" and my 0.75" pucks for the GX. Remember with the geometry, gained height is 2x the puck height. Know the details before you just go throwing pucks in and thinking you can wheel hard.
Most important consideration is the high speed compression, say rallying a dirt road and hitting a wash-out...

Given the castor of the struts, My wheels moved forward a bit and with these oversized tires, they rob the fender liner at full lock. I've seen an adjustment/mod for this for larger tires and will probably make that mod.

Thanks for the interest/questions and I'm going to keep updating as I monitor the lift and adjustments.

PS: I'm seeing if my buddy's AZ rail posts are accessible from another forum. I'm pretty sure he posted them in traildamage, but I don't know how much of that site is navigable to un-paid viewers.

 

[runningdrew]

@runningdrew

Yes. Puck spacer as leveling kit to front only. All else is fully stock: rear functioning airbags, front stock springs.....

Thanks for the info. And the sketch. Sketch helped the geometry factor all make sense. Following this thread and eager for updates. I grew up in Utah and never wheeled Moab, on 2 or 4 wheels...only floated the Co River. One day I'll need to take the family camping+exploring. I have so many questions.
If I'm following replies correctly I assume you installed your spacers yourself? If so how was the difficulty on a 1 - 10 scale? 1 being oil change and 10 being a timing belt change? - and are you fabbing more?! (Nope reread your other post, looks like you are making a bump stop extension) All posts about fabrication skills makes me jealous. Wish I'd taken more than just one welding course or something at college. Thanks for all the details I eat that stuff up.

 

[DRANGED]

Boating the CO is rad, wheeling in Moab (& area) is diverse.
I started to do the pucks myself but in the end farmed it to a mechanic as I needed to reboot a CV and reclamp the other side, replace a strut bolt and needed my skid plate bolts drilled and tapped (one rear bolt was sheared off in the frame and then i did the other...)
Mechanic said it was straight forward. In brief, jack up car, support LCA, remove strut, bolt puck on top and replace strut.
There are details, like remove FSB and outer tie rod end so strut comes out easily, remove shock valve modulator from top of strut. bolt puck to strut, bolt strut into car, and replace FSB and tie rod. Having done subaru struts a bunch, a couple Suby timing belts, clutches and transmission swaps I'd say this would be like a 4ish??

I'm not fabbing on the GX. I'll do spacers for the bump stops but that's just cutting?drilling plats and bolting them up with the bump stop. I modded my roos a bunch, but the GX is staying stock for a while.... ish

My fabbing is largely led by ideas and enabler friends

MANY MANY more ideas than products, but rad all the same.
I never took any tech courses and I bought a MIG walder a few years ago and started glueing stuff together, self-teaching style. A local buddy (who helped me with a bunch of suby projects) knows it all and is old-hat with it all. So he's a good one to have around!

details!! YES< details!!!!!

 

[runningdrew]

Boating the CO is rad, wheeling in Moab (& area) is diverse.
I started to do the pucks myself but in the end farmed it to a mechanic as I needed to reboot a CV and reclamp the other side, replace a strut bolt and needed my skid plate bolts drilled and tapped (one rear bolt was sheared off in the frame and then i did the other...)
Mechanic said it was straight forward. In brief, jack up car, support LCA, remove strut, bolt puck on top and replace strut.
There are details, like remove FSB and outer tie rod end so strut comes out easily, remove shock valve modulator from top of strut. bolt puck to strut, bolt strut into car, and replace FSB and tie rod. Having done subaru struts a bunch, a couple Suby timing belts, clutches and transmission swaps I'd say this would be like a 4ish??

I'm not fabbing on the GX. I'll do spacers for the bump stops but that's just cutting?drilling plats and bolting them up with the bump stop. I modded my roos a bunch, but the GX is staying stock for a while.... ish

My fabbing is largely led by ideas and enabler friends

MANY MANY more ideas than products, but rad all the same.
I never took any tech courses and I bought a MIG walder a few years ago and started glueing stuff together, self-teaching style. A local buddy (who helped me with a bunch of suby projects) knows it all and is old-hat with it all. So he's a good one to have around!

details!! YES< details!!!!!

Oh wait, you're the dude that wheels (wheeled?) the suby all over Moab. I followed those links. A+ I'm a sucker for that. I secretly want to lift an old Volvo xc70 and off-road it. Thanks for the info. Def a mod I might be able to sneak on my wife's GX without her noticing. Kids "need" the running boards and I "need" the clearance.

 

[DRANGED]

Oh wait, you're the dude that wheels (wheeled?) the suby all over Moab. I followed those links. A+ I'm a sucker for that. I secretly want to lift an old Volvo xc70 and off-road it. Thanks for the info. Def a mod I might be able to sneak on my wife's GX without her noticing. Kids "need" the running boards and I "need" the clearance.

Yes!
Some sliders make effective running boards for kids. Hehehe.
White knuckle offroad is my current top choice (available for KDDS too) and SLEE, while bookoo $$ offers a slider that is.visually identical to a running board.
I told/showed my wife the effective lift and pucks, but it's true you could probably sneak them in. Get it alligned after, of course.

How old are your kids?
There are alternatives to running boards for kid entry to the back. :+)