e85 Flex Fuel Conversion on 2007 LX470 (1 Viewer)

[J1000]

Lol!!!
I used to moderate a different forum, I did that for 10yrs bro. I've seen it all. If me calling you out means I have a crappy attitude then so be it.

Great, yeah me too.

I am truly interested in seeing how this turns out, I want to see the real numbers. But I know for a fact that E-85 lowers MPG by 30%. I also know for a fact that octane does not equal horsepower. I also know for a fact that everything you have said so far is directly from a sales book.

Yes, sometimes facts are the best sales tool.

I know for a fact that every car that is properly tuned gains power on E85. Turbo cars make massive gains, N/A cars make small gains, but all cars make gains...if tuned properly. Your anecdotal experience about putting E85 into cars specifically NOT tuned for it bears no weight in the discussion.

At minimum I will get the same power as 91 or 93 gives.

Yes, MPG drops, but fuel is cheaper but the difference might not be worth it. This is completely 100% obvious to everyone else in the universe you don't have to keep saying it.

All of your pictures are top notch, until you get to the ones of the computer/phone screen, those are blurry, zoom in and you can read them but can't really tell what they mean, why are those ones blurry but the rest top notch? You couldn't take the time to take those ones again? What ar you hiding?

Damn, if I were paid I'd have probably done a better job. No, I just took crappy photos because it's the best I got and am doing it for fun.

Your picture of the kit includes everything that comes in the kit, including the stickers for the back of your car to let everyone know what you did to your car so they can Google it.
You even have a nice clear upclose picture of the microprocessor bolted to the inner fender, again, so people can Google it.

Wow that's crazy. Nobody ever takes a photo of what comes in their box. Never seen that before. Damn, I sure missed a trick when I omitted the name of the brand from the title of this thread and never posted a url. Stickers are in the box I can mail them to you if you have a collection.

You can tell that you did this to a 100 series, not calling you out there.
I am not saying you are not a car guy, and car guys can earn extra money however they want, even if it means selling stuff to others. No harm in that.

I f'in wish I got paid by some Finns to put this thing on my car. I paid $350 for the privilege. What's your problem? You seriously are calling me a shill with no basis for anything??

If I am wrong and you are not out to sell others this kit then prove me wrong. Show us the data once you have it. If someone is interested in buying it great, if not great.

I can't prove a negative, but I will be posting my data but I doubt that will shut you up. You sure have a big mouth so far in this thread.

But everything you have said so far is straight from a sales book, and I used to be in sales.

If you copied and pasted from the web site because it was easier than typing it all out then say so, I've done that.

eFlexFuel E85 Ethanol Conversion Kits | upgrade your vehicle to FlexFuel

EcoFuelBox E85 Ethanol Conversion Kit, Ethanol Kit, Flex Fuel Kit, Kit E85, Bioethanol Kit, E85 Kit, Etanol, Bioethanol

I typed it out but yes it's a line from there because that's basically the easiest way you can say it. Funny you posted a link to a direct competitor from the kit I installed. Wonder why I used their language? (cuz they are local to Denver and I looked them up first, dummy).

 

[J1000]

Today I got to do a 200 mile test. Pretty much all interstate driving but I kept speed to 72mph. On big offroad tires not my road tires also. I filled up before I left with E85 and brought my ethanol % up to 40% or E40 for the day. I ended up getting 15.1mpg which is probably not that far off from what I would have gotten with 85 octane E10. I definitely noticed more power especially in the low RPM range 1500-2500rpm which makes sense because at high load it's easy to detonate at low RPM. End result was not having the tranny shift out of OD nearly as much as normal. In this case E40 is definitely a winning combo, more power same price. 85 octane E10 at 16mpg is about 16 cents per mile and if mixing ~5/8 tank with E85 produces E40 at 15mpg that's also about 16 cents per mile.

The factory MPG calculator is now no longer accurate, and will become less accurate at higher ethanol %. It was showing 17mpg.

 

[J1000]

Because I know Spike needs high quality photos, here's some from the trip:

(206 miles)

(13.59 gallons)

(MPG meters were useless and inaccurate. Had the idea to replace with ignition timing advance but only after I got home, will monitor that in the future as it will show if the ECU is taking advantage of higher octane or not)

I filled up with E85 again and now am at E55. Octane rating should now be well above 91 gasoline.

 

[CLEcruiser]

I'll take a kit, do you use PayPal?



(JK)

 

[87warrior]

I am very interested to hear your experience with the E85 on the trail, at altitude (+9k feet) in the heat of summer. These conditions are commonly known to overload the evap system with gasoline/E10 creating an over pressurized fuel tank. Vapor lock is less so a problem, but it does happen more than it should.

This is an interesting thread I hope you keep updating. I do my best to avoid any corn fuel and here you are going for the purest form available.

 

[J1000]

I drove a bunch more miles and filled up with E85 again. This time I was driving mostly city miles or rural highways with stop lights and towed my loaded trailer across town and back and stomped on it a few times for good measure. Ended up with 12.7 MPG on my E55 mix (225 miles, 17.7 gal). Would have likely gotten 13 or 14 on gas as that's what I got before the conversion with this type of driving.

It's definitely got more power, especially down low. A few times I've been climbing hills and had to do a double take because I was still cruising up the hill in 5th with no downshift.

(trailer shown here empty)

Here is a little comparison video between 85 octane E10 gasoline and E60 (actually E64) mix I did today. I clock it at 13.08 seconds for the 85 octane and 12.22 seconds for the E60 mix which is .84 seconds faster! Less than a second but it's something measurable on a large truck! I'd like to see someone else gain that on their 0-60 for $350 + a tank of fuel! Really stoked to try full E85 and start tuning.




I am very surprised as the fuel must mix up almost immediately. Usually it takes me a only 30 seconds to check the ethanol % after the first start after fill up but by then the new mixture has already been read. I usually don't see it change more than 1-2% after the first minute or two of fill up from then on. Pretty cool!

It was a really beautiful day today!

 

[J1000]

I had a feeling the truck was pig-rich. The stock narrow-band O2 sensor stops reading AFR at 12:1 but I had a feeling it's running way richer than that. To find out I installed an AEM wideband sensor. Install is completely easy, just +12v and ground and then mount it and run the cables. You can see more information on my wideband install in the "what did you do this week" thread.

(for all of the OCD people, I will be using the Lambda scale for gasoline of 14.7:1 when talking about AFR as I find that more useful than trying to switch back and forth with E85's Lambda of 9.76:1)

Now I have a window into the AFR for the truck. It's running very rich at WOT in the 11.2 to 11.5:1 range. Optimum AFR should be more like 12.5 to 13:1. Leaning out the truck should increase power and also improve MPG.

Obviously this is not 100% applicable to a stock truck. At some point in the future I want to go to 85 octane again or maybe 100% gasoline 91 octane and do more testing at that time I will unplug the eFlexFuel kit and measure AFR again.

Here is a video showing the AEM wideband gauge in action while running E55. Check out the ignition timing as well. I will have to go back to regular 85 octane and check the timing as well.

I am very interested to hear your experience with the E85 on the trail, at altitude (+9k feet) in the heat of summer. These conditions are commonly known to overload the evap system with gasoline/E10 creating an over pressurized fuel tank. Vapor lock is less so a problem, but it does happen more than it should.

This is an interesting thread I hope you keep updating. I do my best to avoid any corn fuel and here you are going for the purest form available.

I posted my experience on a recent trip from my home at 5,800ft to 13,100ft in that thread here. It's something that I have been monitoring every time I fill up, and I have never noticed any pressure at all even when opening the gas tank even with E55 during my fill up today. My LX has an impeccable service record from Lexus so the evap system is likely working very well. On top of that the problem with boiling gas is likely entirely due to the close proximity and un-shielded nature of the fuel lines running past the catalytic converter.

If so then E85 should mitigate the issue as its boiling point is about 70 degrees F higher than gasoline and it also lowers the temperature of the exhaust and catalyst compared to gasoline. E85 vapors have a 100 degree F higher flash point than gasoline vapors, as well, so it is less likely to be ignited like that horror story of the 100 series engulfed in flame. For good measure I will be shielding the fuel lines as shown in that thread as well as shielding the AC lines on the other side and anticipate it will not be an issue. I will keep this thread updated if I develop any large pressure increase in my tank.

Rumors are fun aren't they.

 

[abuck99]

Do you have a way to measure the fuel temp in the tank before you shield the lines; just to know if there is any result from shielding the lines.

 

[jerryb]

they swapped to WB sensors in 5/2005. Do you have some info about that? or evidence that they didn't?
I'd like to monitor mine and thought briefly about cutting into the toyota WB but I assumed no monitor would be compatible with their signal, reference wise. But IDK really. I also thought about it more over that 12 hole injector thread. What is that doing to the VE as a whole? where did you mount the new WB?

 

[gatormark91]

High ethanol fuels (more ethanol than E85) is corrosive to aluminum, magnesium, and can degrade rubber O-rings. Everything I have read says you only get about a 2% torque increase for a non-tuned NA motor running E40. The potential for fuel system damage isn't worth it, IMHO.

 

[abuck99]

Yeah I believe E-85 rated engines have different fuel system lines & fittings compared to vehicles designed to run E-10 that resist the effects of higher concentration of alcohol: (fuel lines, connector o-rings, injector O-rings etc ). Maybe the corrosion isn't a big deal if you're cycling through full tanks often but if your truck sits for a week or two or more between fill ups, maybe not so good.

 

[J1000]

Do you have a way to measure the fuel temp in the tank before you shield the lines; just to know if there is any result from shielding the lines.

Yes! Check out the screen shots from the app. The GM flex fuel sensor also measures fuel temperature so I should see a decrease.

they swapped to WB sensors in 5/2005. Do you have some info about that? or evidence that they didn't?
I'd like to monitor mine and thought briefly about cutting into the toyota WB but I assumed no monitor would be compatible with their signal, reference wise. But IDK really. I also thought about it more over that 12 hole injector thread. What is that doing to the VE as a whole? where did you mount the new WB?

Well, just the video I posted showing the OBD O2 sensor output. It doesn't read any lower than 12:1 and doesn't read higher than 18:1 whereas the AEM will go from 8:1 to 21:1. It's probably a wide band technically, but not enough to view the AFR at WOT. Maybe it's a problem with the app Torque I am using.

High ethanol fuels (more ethanol than E85) is corrosive to aluminum, magnesium, and can degrade rubber O-rings. Everything I have read says you only get about a 2% torque increase for a non-tuned NA motor running E40. The potential for fuel system damage isn't worth it, IMHO.

Yeah I believe E-85 rated engines have different fuel system lines & fittings compared to vehicles designed to run E-10 that resist the effects of higher concentration of alcohol: (fuel lines, connector o-rings, injector O-rings etc ). Maybe the corrosion isn't a big deal if you're cycling through full tanks often but if your truck sits for a week or two or more between fill ups, maybe not so good.

No.

 

[gungriffin]

Please keep posting up. I am looking forward to hearing more about it.

 

[YardPig]

Warranty concerns?

 

[gatormark91]

Ethanol has about 33 percent less energy than gasoline. This is not a guess, it is factual science. It just has less energy in it per gallon.

So, the more ethanol in the fuel, the worse the fuel economy you’re going to get. Not better. Nope. (Science, again).

Gasoline with 10 percent ethanol yields about 3-5 percent less fuel economy than straight gas. E40? Just do the math. You can't get better gas mileage running ethanol. Cleaner, sure. Can you run a lower octane gas with ethanol and save money (less detonation)? Yep.

More mileage? Nope. The ONLY reason to use ethanol in gas is because it has higher octane and burns cleaner, with less emissions. You can tune a high-performance engine to take advantage of the cleaner burn and higher octane (racing engines and forced induction), but this kit does not do that, best I can tell.

 

[pstevens3307]

Just to be clear, ethanol doesn’t actually contain octane. The ‘octane’ rating number is used as so its burn qualities can be compared to gasoline. Because it burns like very high-octane gas, advancing the spark, running larger injectors, and raising compression (or adding a turbo) will yield a much more efficient burn than gasoline. Flex-fuel engines adapt to different fuels by changing spark timing alone, as far as I know, which is why they’ve never lived up to their hype. But an engine that’s fully optimized for ethanol will produce more power and comparable or better fuel economy, despite the lower energy per unit volume of alcohol vs. gas.

 

[gatormark91]

Just to be clear, ethanol doesn’t actually contain octane. The ‘octane’ rating number is used as so its burn qualities can be compared to gasoline. Because it burns like very high-octane gas, advancing the spark, running larger injectors, and raising compression (or adding a turbo) will yield a much more efficient burn than gasoline. Flex-fuel engines adapt to different fuels by changing spark timing alone, as far as I know, which is why they’ve never lived up to their hype. But an engine that’s fully optimized for ethanol will produce more power and comparable or better fuel economy, despite the lower energy per unit volume of alcohol vs. gas.

Totally agree. It takes more than a $300 kit to take advantage of the positive properties of ethanol.

 

[Spike555]

Until you start using an actual app on your phone to keep track of your mpg your numbers are going to be hard to sell.
In order to get real numbers you need to run a minimum of 3 tanks of one fuel, then 3 tanks of another.
5 tanks would be best, this would help minimize the remainder of the fuel switch over and driving habits.

I have one of these apps, they are free. All you do is fill in the blanks, then you can post your screen capture with the two fuels and we can see for ourself side by side.

 

[J1000]

Ethanol has about 33 percent less energy than gasoline. This is not a guess, it is factual science. It just has less energy in it per gallon.

So, the more ethanol in the fuel, the worse the fuel economy you’re going to get. Not better. Nope. (Science, again).

Gasoline with 10 percent ethanol yields about 3-5 percent less fuel economy than straight gas. E40? Just do the math. You can't get better gas mileage running ethanol. Cleaner, sure. Can you run a lower octane gas with ethanol and save money (less detonation)? Yep.

More mileage? Nope. The ONLY reason to use ethanol in gas is because it has higher octane and burns cleaner, with less emissions. You can tune a high-performance engine to take advantage of the cleaner burn and higher octane (racing engines and forced induction), but this kit does not do that, best I can tell.

Welcome to the first page. Have I wrote anything at all in this thread that contradicts what you just wrote here? Did you notice I just installed a wideband AFR gauge? Do you think maybe I'm interested in fine-tuning more than what the base kit gives me? Glad to have you on board but please put the minimal effort in by at least scanning the thread before you post.

Warranty concerns?

View attachment 1787896

No I don't believe I have any warranty concerns being the 3rd owner of an 11-year old vehicle far outside any original warranty

 

[J1000]

Until you start using an actual app on your phone to keep track of your mpg your numbers are going to be hard to sell.
In order to get real numbers you need to run a minimum of 3 tanks of one fuel, then 3 tanks of another.
5 tanks would be best, this would help minimize the remainder of the fuel switch over and driving habits.

I have one of these apps, they are free. All you do is fill in the blanks, then you can post your screen capture with the two fuels and we can see for ourself side by side.

Yeah, I'm already doing this. I have taken photos of the ODO and the pump for all fillups. If you don't believe the numbers I type that's on you. I don't see how an app will make it any more valid than typing the numbers here?? I already told you I track mileage with Fuelly (it's an app!) you can follow along yourself with this link: LX470 (Lexus LX470) | Fuelly


REALLY getting tired of repeating myself. Maybe I should just install a roof tent lmao