Evans Waterless coolant (1 Viewer)

[SmokingRocks]

I hope no one takes my statements as argumentative, they should be informative.

It's shocking how close the 'water-less coolant' physical properties are to those of 100% ethylene Glycol.

Property---------------------------------Glycol ----------------- Waterless Coolant
Thermal conductivity W/m.K ............ 0.262 ....................... 0.270
Spec. heat Capacity J/kg.K .............. 2623 ........................ 2633
Density kg/L ................................... 1.068 ...................... 1.108

The fact that they have some water in their mix helps to increase the boiling point. So I'd bet they add a small amount of their own additive to it but based on the technical data they provide it's just glycol. And it's no mystery that 100% glycol systems don't shed heat nearly as well. So you will end up with an overheated engine that is shockingly free of any dangerous corrosion....

Lets examine some of the statements on the site.

1. 
   • "Water has superior heat transfer capabilities..." next sentence "Water-less coolants provide sufficient heat transfer" -
   • Waterless coolant is 60% worse at heat transfer than water... I guess that leaves what's 'sufficient' up to you....
   • The second statement about waters low boiling point is close to the op temp of the engine is 1) incorrect 2) assumes a straight 100% water mix 3) does not account for designed pressurization.
     • Water & glycol in a 40/60 mix under 13.7psi will boil at roughly 260 degrees
     • any mix of glycol over ~15-20% provides acceptable levels of corrosion protection
2. Statements that running this coolant will prevent overheating is false and misleading
   • While the water-less coolant may not boil over the engine will be far above its normal operating temp if it cannot shed heat fast enough due to the poor thermal conductivity and heat capacity of the fluid. Most people call this overheating
   • Any "performance gains" are likely atmospheric / dyno variances. The minor difference in the viscosity actually play against the "halo coolant"
3. In places on the site they boast about how it doesn't create pressure like water and glycol/water mixes do
   1. this is asinine, the pressure is desirable within a cooling system as it raises the boiling temperature of the coolant solution. Preventing this function does nothing to aid in cooling.

Ultimately if you run this stuff and swear by it that's fine, to each their own. Hopefully everyone can draw their own conclusions by comparing physical properties and questioning the massive claims the site makes. It's clear to me that this site is relying on many broad and misleading statements to trick people into thinking they need "water-less coolant"


If you live in a hot climate and want to give your engine the most effective coolant at shedding heat based on empirical data then stick with 15% coolant / 85% distilled water + water wetter. This mix will shed roughly 50% more heat per liter than the fifty dollar bottle of crap.

There is no secret mystery formula that will, hit your engine with an arctic blast, fix your head gasket, do your taxes, give you a handy while listening to your girlfriend for you all at the same time.

Don't over think this, it's not rocket science, it's thermal dynamics (physics).

 

[musthave]

This is right up there with the TP isle at the grocery store. 6 rolls is just like 24! Bigger, better, stronger, and improves your life expectancy! 3 rolls is like 16! 5 rolls are like 20!

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

My thing is I live out the PHX and with outside temps reaching 115-120 during the summer, running AC full blast, and underhood temps higher and these do not cool well I think this might be a viable option to water based coolants.

Yes, I understand the NEED to find a good coolant. But I don't see how this IS a good coolant.

But... it doesn't cool as well. It just has the capacity to hold more heat before it boils. Normal coolant boils at well above the point where your engine is already overheating.

This is what Im getting at.

 

[SmokingRocks]

Yes, I understand the NEED to find a good coolant. But I don't see how this IS a good coolant.
.

You got it, thats because it's not. @OffRoadScott you need to mix your own distilled water / glycol mix and shoot for an 80/20 or 85/15 mix. You can add a bottle of water wetter for increased protection against cavitation and air inclusion.

Proper mix + tight belts, a sealing radiator cap and a functional fan clutch go a long way. Remember it's a cooling system not a cooling component. Replacing my fan belts and radiator cap combined with a blue fan clutch and 85/15 mix resulted in my rig actually cooling itself down from 185 degrees to 177 after 40 mins of full throttle climbing to the 11,000' pass summit. The old snail maintained 65 mph the whole way, pretty surprising when you consider she tips the scale at ~7,000lbs and it was 96 degree ambient.

I took the photo below because I was shocked at how well it was cooling. This was about 3 miles from the top (Eisenhower tunnel). Notice my vac gauge is pegged at 0 showing I was still flat out when I shot this.

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

You got it, thats because it's not. @OffRoadScott you need to mix your own distilled water / glycol mix and shoot for an 80/20 or 85/15 mix. You can add a bottle of water wetter for increased protection against cavitation and air inclusion.

Proper mix + tight belts, a sealing radiator cap and a functional fan clutch go a long way. Remember it's a cooling system not a cooling component. Replacing my fan belts and radiator cap combined with a blue fan clutch and 85/15 mix resulted in my rig actually cooling itself down from 185 degrees to 177 after 40 mins of full throttle climbing to the 11,000' pass summit. The old snail maintained 65 mph the whole way, pretty surprising when you consider she tips the scale at ~7,000lbs and it was 96 degree ambient.

I took the photo below because I was shocked at how well it was cooling. This was about 3 miles from the top (Eisenhower tunnel). Notice my vac gauge is pegged at 0 showing I was still flat out when I shot this. View attachment 1746549

Those are good numbers. Good sciencing on here too.

 

[BILT4ME]

You still have the risk of cooling system failure (Hose, hard line, clamp). If so and you're out in the middle of nowhere......

WHAT are you going to put back in?

You're only going to have access to water of some varying degree of purity (urine, bottled water, stream, pond....) but no "waterless coolant fountains" in sight.

I will be changing to green coolant due to a better availability in remote areas VS the Toyota Red.

Maintaining your system is key for ANY system, but EVERY car dealer is #1!
(Yes, on the third Tuesday of the blue moon on an even numbered month on a day ending in Y.)

 

[SmokingRocks]

Yup^

I travel with various sizes and lengths of common coolant hoses, assorted hose clamps and a roll of loc-tite's self fusing silicone hose tape.

 

[OffRoadScott]

You got it, thats because it's not. @OffRoadScott you need to mix your own distilled water / glycol mix and shoot for an 80/20 or 85/15 mix. You can add a bottle of water wetter for increased protection against cavitation and air inclusion.

Proper mix + tight belts, a sealing radiator cap and a functional fan clutch go a long way. Remember it's a cooling system not a cooling component. Replacing my fan belts and radiator cap combined with a blue fan clutch and 85/15 mix resulted in my rig actually cooling itself down from 185 degrees to 177 after 40 mins of full throttle climbing to the 11,000' pass summit. The old snail maintained 65 mph the whole way, pretty surprising when you consider she tips the scale at ~7,000lbs and it was 96 degree ambient.

I took the photo below because I was shocked at how well it was cooling. This was about 3 miles from the top (Eisenhower tunnel). Notice my vac gauge is pegged at 0 showing I was still flat out when I shot this. View attachment 1746549

Thank you for the great information.

As far as radiator caps, and clutches there is some debate on which ones are best when it comes to clutches. When I was into Subarus and Hondas it was popular to run higher pressure radiator caps. For instance a Cosworth radiator cap has a pressure rating of 1.5 bar or roughly 22psi/150 KPA. The standard radiator caps I have seen for the LC are 12.7 PSI or 88 Kpa.

IF I remember correctly that the higher pressure of the radiator cap will raise the boiling point of your coolant. So if we run one of the above mixes how much more beneficial is the higher pressure cap.

A quick scan of this article has helped me understand a lot more of what everyone else has said prior.

Beating the Heat: Advantage of a High Pressure Radiator Cap

 

[OffRoadScott]

You still have the risk of cooling system failure (Hose, hard line, clamp). If so and you're out in the middle of nowhere......

WHAT are you going to put back in?

You're only going to have access to water of some varying degree of purity (urine, bottled water, stream, pond....) but no "waterless coolant fountains" in sight.

I will be changing to green coolant due to a better availability in remote areas VS the Toyota Red.

Maintaining your system is key for ANY system, but EVERY car dealer is #1!
(Yes, on the third Tuesday of the blue moon on an even numbered month on a day ending in Y.)

Valid point. From everything I have read this stuff is not worth it in several areas cost/performance. I am going to figure out a good mix of distilled water and glycol and again go over my cooling system to assure it is up to par or operating at maximum efficiency

 

[SmokingRocks]

You only need to run the factory pressure in the system, I believe it is like .9bar / 13.x psi. This is a sufficient pressure to raise the boiling point of an 80/20 mix to roughly 255 degrees, which is more than enough for our engines. (your thermostat should fully open at 182 degrees) Running higher pressures puts strains on other parts in the system and could result in a blown out hose / hard line which would leave you stranded.

Regarding the clutches, everyone has a different opinion black, blue green whatever. I went to rock auto and purchased an Aisin Blue fan clutch, then when it arrived I drained the oil and refilled with 20,000 cst and I also advanced the timing by about 1mm. This has worked very well for my 7,000lb rig on 35's, stock gears and at altitude.

When it comes to buying parts for your 80 series ONLY buy OEM. (In some cases you can source OE suppliers through rock auto like in the case of the Aisin fan clutch). 80 series will reject aftermarket parts faster than you can put them on, save your money, make a friend at the parts department, get a discount and stick with toyota parts.

 

[-Spike-]

...how much more beneficial is the higher pressure cap.

Running a higher pressure cap would only be beneficial if you are boiling your coolant. If you are boiling your coolant, you have other issues that need to be addressed.

 

[-Spike-]

Another consideration- the system is designed to hold something like 13psi. You risk leaks and damage if you exceed that significantly.

 

[SmokingRocks]

Some helpful links for your enjoyment.

Blue fan clutch mod
Thermostat
1993 FZJ80 Cooling System Overhaul

 

[Roostre]

I hope no one takes my statements as argumentative, they should be informative.

It's shocking how close the 'water-less coolant' physical properties are to those of 100% ethylene Glycol.

Property---------------------------------Glycol ----------------- Waterless Coolant
Thermal conductivity W/m.K ............ 0.262 ....................... 0.270
Spec. heat Capacity J/kg.K .............. 2623 ........................ 2633
Density kg/L ................................... 1.068 ...................... 1.108

The fact that they have some water in their mix helps to increase the boiling point. So I'd bet they add a small amount of their own additive to it but based on the technical data they provide it's just glycol. And it's no mystery that 100% glycol systems don't shed heat nearly as well. So you will end up with an overheated engine that is shockingly free of any dangerous corrosion....

Lets examine some of the statements on the site.

1. View attachment 1746443
   • "Water has superior heat transfer capabilities..." next sentence "Water-less coolants provide sufficient heat transfer" -
   • Waterless coolant is 60% worse at heat transfer than water... I guess that leaves what's 'sufficient' up to you....
   • The second statement about waters low boiling point is close to the op temp of the engine is 1) incorrect 2) assumes a straight 100% water mix 3) does not account for designed pressurization.
     • Water & glycol in a 40/60 mix under 13.7psi will boil at roughly 260 degrees
     • any mix of glycol over ~15-20% provides acceptable levels of corrosion protection
2. Statements that running this coolant will prevent overheating is false and misleading
   • While the water-less coolant may not boil over the engine will be far above its normal operating temp if it cannot shed heat fast enough due to the poor thermal conductivity and heat capacity of the fluid. Most people call this overheating
   • Any "performance gains" are likely atmospheric / dyno variances. The minor difference in the viscosity actually play against the "halo coolant"
3. In places on the site they boast about how it doesn't create pressure like water and glycol/water mixes do
   1. this is asinine, the pressure is desirable within a cooling system as it raises the boiling temperature of the coolant solution. Preventing this function does nothing to aid in cooling.

Ultimately if you run this stuff and swear by it that's fine, to each their own. Hopefully everyone can draw their own conclusions by comparing physical properties and questioning the massive claims the site makes. It's clear to me that this site is relying on many broad and misleading statements to trick people into thinking they need "water-less coolant"


If you live in a hot climate and want to give your engine the most effective coolant at shedding heat based on empirical data then stick with 15% coolant / 85% distilled water + water wetter. This mix will shed roughly 50% more heat per liter than the fifty dollar bottle of crap.

There is no secret mystery formula that will, hit your engine with an arctic blast, fix your head gasket, do your taxes, give you a handy while listening to your girlfriend for you all at the same time.

Don't over think this, it's not rocket science, it's thermal dynamics (physics).

No-one is misleading you.

You are slanting the discussion away from facts and into hyperbole ("$50 bottle of crap")

You not only get a motor that is "shockingly free of corrosion", but is also undamaged by the higher temperatures.

You also get a coolant that won't kill your animals if/when it spills.

If you are in the middle of nowhere and have a coolant leak you have MORE options because with an unpressurized system you don't lose as much and you don't get a geyser of steam. It's entirely possible to gorilla tape or flex patch the hose and still make it into town. I actually had a situation on a big trip last year that I lost some coolant due to a mechanical issue - it was an emergency situation that was easily handled by adding water to the Evans; it worked fine to get me back home.

I only knew about the rebate and current pricing as we are going to this in my wife's '49 Willys. On long, steep low-range climbs it will *just* get hot enough to bubble the coolant bottle. With the Evans this will never happen and the motor won't be getting the cavitational hot spots that the traditional coolant makes.

I'm guessing hivemind of the internet will win out over facts backed up by years of practical use. Cheers all!

 

[athensrep]

I’ve run it in three vehicles now; a 2h, a Subaru and in my current 3L. I took a gamble on it since it’s so polarizing. It’s worked great for me as my main focus on all three of these motors was to eliminate steam pockets and reducing pressure on the system. Probably don’t need to go into the details other than I can honestly say it helps with both points. The 2h ended up averaging 10 degrees warmer at regular op temps. The Subaru ran cold and the 3L runs the same temps as with conventional - this is with the AC blasting in Atlanta traffic. I use an Engine Watch Dog on it and it keeps steady no matter how I drive. The main benefit is the low-to-no pressure which in theory would be a bit easier on the head. Whether it is or not; I can’t tell you 100%. What I can say is that anything to help an L series is good in my book. I’ve run it now for about 15k in the 3L.

For converting, you don’t need to spend the cash on the flush. Open your lower hose and reverse a shop vac down the top hose. After 10-15 minutes you’ve blown everything out.

 

[Red Merle]

I guess I don't understand the main benefits if you aren't getting up to the boiling point of coolant. I mean, if you have 235 coolant...you've got bigger problems. This would probably be a great way to increase efficiency if you designed around it, since running a hotter coolant would mean less heat losses and smaller cooling surfaces due to a greater delta T but you'd have to solve for letting your engine get to 300+ degrees and be safe there.

So you are telling me to double up on the head gaskets. Got it.

 

[Dindu Nuffin]

The low pressure rise is why I run it in a car that uses plastic extensively in the cooling system and is notorious for said plastic splitting, and I see no difference in operating temps between the OEM spec'd OAT coolant and Evans. But that's just me. I see this as being like which oil is best... use whatever makes you happy and understand and accept that other people will have different opinions based on various facts of varying legitimacy.

 

[SmokingRocks]

No-one is misleading you.

You are slanting the discussion away from facts and into hyperbole ("$50 bottle of crap")

Wrong
you are being duped into buying $10 glycol for $50

You not only get a motor that is "shockingly free of corrosion", but is also undamaged by the higher temperatures.

Wrong
Per the lab results posted below, you stand to have more deposits build up and the higher temps can warp the head, block and cause your valve seats to deteriorate prematurely.

You also get a coolant that won't kill your animals if/when it spills.

Wrong
Evans is 100% glycol. Glycol whether labeled Evans or Prestone is toxic to animals.

If you are in the middle of nowhere and have a coolant leak you have MORE options because with an unpressurized system you don't lose as much and you don't get a geyser of steam. It's entirely possible to gorilla tape or flex patch the hose and still make it into town.

False, you will have the same options.
Just because it builds less pressure doesn't mean it's an "unpressurized" system. It will still blow coolant out of a pinhole.

... and the motor won't be getting the cavitational hot spots that the traditional coolant makes.

My search for 1fz-fe engine failures due to cavitational hot spots returned 0 results. However a search for engine failures due to overheating gave me hundreds of pages of results. Doesn't it make more sense to set the system up to deal with combating actual sources of failure?


No I am bringing facts to the table when all you are saying is it's magic sauce.

Cooling systems are designed with a primary function which is to cool... effectively, which is why they carry pressure and a fluid with a high thermal conductance & capacity. They are not designed to avoid boil over by simply installing the fluid with the highest boiling point. And you know why? because the coolants function is to support the engines functions not the other way around. Boil over is an indicator to the operator that a component of the cooling system is not functioning correctly, its a valuable warning sign.

If your system that was designed to be pressurized can't handle pressure you have much worse issues than picking your coolant sauce. Pressurization allows coolant to maintain lower freezing points while offering high temp performance utilizing a coolant water mix that is much more capable of shedding heat than pure glycol. Period. Interesting that car manufacturers are still mass producing pressurized glycol/water cooling systems.... Wonder why...

Countless cruisers make it to 400,000 miles on a pressurized glycol water coolant system. I know I've bought and sold them, 460k original head gasket. No Evans required. Heat kills 1fz's, it's much more an actual threat to the engines longevity than perceived 'cavitational hot spots'. so IMO you should use the mix that will provide the highest degree of heat shedding capability, that is not Evans mystery fluid.

But if it's your bag of chips them great enjoy the expense.

 

[SmokingRocks]

So it's time to walk away from the but dyno and catch phrase marketing.. Read this laboratory test report on how the Evans claims fall on their face. After you read this you will see that running Evans is doing more damage and exposing you to more risk than running regular coolant. Not to mention that the Evans mix is 5x more expensive than the exact same fluid thats in the prestone concentrate bottles you can get at walmart for $10

file:///C:/Users/reedn/Downloads/No-Rosion%20Products%20Technical%20Questions%20and%20Answers.pdf

 

[SmokingRocks]

sorry to pop your bubble. Perhaps this is a lesson that what they say on the bottle is meant to make you buy it rather than be truthful. The lab results don't lie. Stop being duped by a scam product.

I see this as being like which oil is best... use whatever makes you happy and understand and accept that other people will have different opinions based on various facts of varying legitimacy.

But the difference is that all oil we debate will provide adequate lubrication to help the engine last hundreds of thousands of miles.

Running Evans has serious negative impacts on the lifespan of the engine since it runs it so much hotter. It also increases the risk of warpage, valve seat damage, knock and overheating.