Cummins crate diesel 4 cylinder...... (1 Viewer)
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We have dozens of threads where this has been discussed relentlessly. Opinion is the engine is too expensive and underpowered for an 80.
Cummins Crate Engines - Get Ready to Repower - Cummins Engines
Been around for maybe 6-8 months for sale. YouTube has several videos about these in keeps.
Proffit off road put one in a fj80
Been around for maybe 6-8 months for sale. YouTube has several videos about these in keeps.
Proffit off road put one in a fj80
I think it a great idea but I don't want it for the simple fact its all electronically controlled. I like my throttle cables...
now if I can find an older 4bt, I can get the adapters and do the same exact thing...
now if I can find an older 4bt, I can get the adapters and do the same exact thing...
thatcabledude
GOLD Star
That plastic oil pan tho!
Why go with anything other than factory diesel? Especially for a factory turbo diesel? That's where I'll be going once I have A$11k saved up to buy an import 1hdft motor.
might be easier to swap the cummins into a petrol cruiser than it is to swap in a toyota. also, they're all brand new and not refurb'd
but you're right, the cummins v the best motor toyota made? it'd have to be the toyota
HDJdreams
SILVER Star
I spoke with Profitt about the 2.8 swap. They said that it was set at factory output hp and torque 161/267(?). That they were a Cummins partner and never tweak the programming.
There is a video by Profitt comparing the swap with a similarly built/equipped naturally aspirated 1FZ. They were fairly comparable acceleration wise when tested at high elevation (both terrible!). 14 sec 0-60 for 1FZ, 15 sec for 2.8. Important note was the 2.8 maintained speed better on grades.
FWIW - After the side by side testing, Cummins came out to take the TLC, they adjusted the spool up and it made the made motor perform much better with 6L90. Cummins took the TLC to HQ to evaluate the motor in a large SUV.
Axis industries, off road shop in Indiana near Cummins, said it’s no problem to turn those 2.8s up to 200 hp / 400 ft-lbs with software tweak and they will still run forever. That makes sense as the stock hp/ft-lbs per liter rating for 2.8 is low compared to other new US diesels and the motor was originally designed for box trucks that weigh far more than our Cruisers.
TorFab swapped a 2.8 into a 60 series, he turned it up to 200/400 and seems happy with it.
Rumor was that Cummins was going to offer the 5.0 V8 (900 lbs and huge) and 6.7 I6 (1150 lbs and huge) next. I have written Cummins that there really needs to be something in between for vehicles heavier than Jeeps but with smaller engine bays. That the 2.8 is a great replacement for a 6 cylinder, but the need something that can replace a small block V8 and have 200/400 rating.
I suggested the 3.8, (it’s a 4 cylinder, in the same family as 2.8). It’s slightly heavier and bigger on outside than 2.8, but still small and lighter (and smoother and quieter) than 3.9/4.5 4BT. The 3.8 was factory rated for 170/400, its downside was that its redline was much lower than 2.8s.
I am guessing it would be more likely they uprate the 2.8 than bring in the 3.8, either way they need something with more output that’s smaller than 5.0 and 6.7.
As for Toyota factory diesels, the 2.8 in its stock rating is basically the same as stock 1HD-T. 2.8 allows you to get 6 and 8 speed automatics, and 6 speed manuals.
There is a video by Profitt comparing the swap with a similarly built/equipped naturally aspirated 1FZ. They were fairly comparable acceleration wise when tested at high elevation (both terrible!). 14 sec 0-60 for 1FZ, 15 sec for 2.8. Important note was the 2.8 maintained speed better on grades.
FWIW - After the side by side testing, Cummins came out to take the TLC, they adjusted the spool up and it made the made motor perform much better with 6L90. Cummins took the TLC to HQ to evaluate the motor in a large SUV.
Axis industries, off road shop in Indiana near Cummins, said it’s no problem to turn those 2.8s up to 200 hp / 400 ft-lbs with software tweak and they will still run forever. That makes sense as the stock hp/ft-lbs per liter rating for 2.8 is low compared to other new US diesels and the motor was originally designed for box trucks that weigh far more than our Cruisers.
TorFab swapped a 2.8 into a 60 series, he turned it up to 200/400 and seems happy with it.
Rumor was that Cummins was going to offer the 5.0 V8 (900 lbs and huge) and 6.7 I6 (1150 lbs and huge) next. I have written Cummins that there really needs to be something in between for vehicles heavier than Jeeps but with smaller engine bays. That the 2.8 is a great replacement for a 6 cylinder, but the need something that can replace a small block V8 and have 200/400 rating.
I suggested the 3.8, (it’s a 4 cylinder, in the same family as 2.8). It’s slightly heavier and bigger on outside than 2.8, but still small and lighter (and smoother and quieter) than 3.9/4.5 4BT. The 3.8 was factory rated for 170/400, its downside was that its redline was much lower than 2.8s.
I am guessing it would be more likely they uprate the 2.8 than bring in the 3.8, either way they need something with more output that’s smaller than 5.0 and 6.7.
As for Toyota factory diesels, the 2.8 in its stock rating is basically the same as stock 1HD-T. 2.8 allows you to get 6 and 8 speed automatics, and 6 speed manuals.
HDJdreams
SILVER Star
Is the 1HD-T really Toyota’s best? I am honestly asking, not trying to troll. We don’t have them here in US, but I recently spoke with a German couple that has on and has replaced injector pump twice and something else twice. I also got the impression the bottom end was more likely to have problems than the gas motors.
While the simplicity of all mechanical sounds nice, when I compare the noise and smell of a mechanical 5.9 Cummins to newer 6.7, it makes me really, really reluctant to use a 25 year old diesel over a brand new one. Noise, smell, starting, and smoothness matter to me. I LOVED the torque my common rail 5.9 Cummins had in my Ram truck, but my wife really hated the noise on highway, too loud for conversation, so I sold it. And it was significantly quieter that the mechanical 5.9s (my next door neighbor had one.). While I am not excited about the emissions system of 6.7, it’s WAY quieter than my 5.9 CRD.
Electronic vs mechanical, I look at it like carburetor vs fuel injection. My fuel injectored vehicles have ran great and never had an issue with fuel injection system. My carbureted vehicles have been very problematic, and even at their best never worked as well as fuel injection.
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^ well, if you want to compare modern/modern. Then you would need to compare to the Toyota 1VD-FTV
cheers,
george.
cheers,
george.
HDJdreams
SILVER Star
1VD-FTV is awesome! That being said:
The 2.8 Cummins is available as a crate motor in the US for $7650 on sale. It’s compact, super simple to wire, has a stand alone ECU, actually EPA legal in 1997 and older, vigorous aftermarket support for swapping, capable of 200+ hp / 400+ ft-lbs with a flash.
For the cost of rebuilding a 1FZ, you get a brand new motor. The bits and effort to put the motor in add up, but I am in the middle of swapping 1FZs in my 97, 20+ year old stuff is a pain too.
Big hassle and expense of 2.8 is changing trannies, but I also see that as an opportunity to upgrade to 6 or 8 speed deep first and tall OD, which allow any motor to perform better. Especially for off roaders.
I have never heard of the 1VD-FTV swapped in an 80, it’s wide, has lots and lots electronics, and non existent in the US.
The point is the 2.8 in 80 has been DONE! It will be done a lot more. 1VD-FTV is still unobtainium.
The 2.8 Cummins is available as a crate motor in the US for $7650 on sale. It’s compact, super simple to wire, has a stand alone ECU, actually EPA legal in 1997 and older, vigorous aftermarket support for swapping, capable of 200+ hp / 400+ ft-lbs with a flash.
For the cost of rebuilding a 1FZ, you get a brand new motor. The bits and effort to put the motor in add up, but I am in the middle of swapping 1FZs in my 97, 20+ year old stuff is a pain too.
Big hassle and expense of 2.8 is changing trannies, but I also see that as an opportunity to upgrade to 6 or 8 speed deep first and tall OD, which allow any motor to perform better. Especially for off roaders.
I have never heard of the 1VD-FTV swapped in an 80, it’s wide, has lots and lots electronics, and non existent in the US.
The point is the 2.8 in 80 has been DONE! It will be done a lot more. 1VD-FTV is still unobtainium.
Maybe Cummins should just add two cylinders to it and make it a 4.2L straight six for us all to drool at.
SUMMIT CRUISERS Jr
SILVER Star
Something is definitely "coming soon"
It will be interesting to see what it is.
I would never swap the 2.8 in my 80. Maybe it would be nice in a stock weight 80 but anything loaded down and I don't see it being worth it
It will be interesting to see what it is.
I would never swap the 2.8 in my 80. Maybe it would be nice in a stock weight 80 but anything loaded down and I don't see it being worth it
HDJdreams
SILVER Star
For a while, the choice was 1hdt or 1hdft with no electronics, or 1hdfte with electronics. That will of course change over time when motors with no electronic control become completely obselete (or are rendered so by government legislation at local/state/federal levels). I guess the big difference with USA vs Australia is still the market in the USA is 10x larger, and all 80's sold 'natively' in the US are/were badged at LX450's with a petrol motor while most 80's here have diesel motors ex-factory.
As most of you guys know, I run a 1HDT swapped 80 and I love it. It gets decent fuel mileage (just under 20 mpg for me and I drive it hard and usually cruise between 75 and 80 mph), it's very torquey (I haven't found a hill steep enough to cause it to downshift on the freeway) and it has the best reliability(along with 1HDFT) of any of Toyota's diesels ... in my opinion. (The 1VD-FTV seemsto be more finicky and I know of people that have had issues with that motor)
One thing to keep in mind though, is that the 1HDT only came with 164/267 from the factory. To wake them up, you need to upgrade the turbo... and to really wake them up you need to intercool. The PO also paid more for my 1HDT than the $7600 sale price for the Cummins 2.8... plus he bought the Gturbo that I enjoy everyday.
Ask @torfab . Tor has swapped 1HDTs (he did my swap as well) and has swapped Cummins 2.8s. He likes both engines and believes that they both perform well in an 80. One thing that the Cummins non mechanical approach can offer, though, is the ability to simply reflash and get 50hp and 150 ft lbs without the need for a turbo upgrade.
Long story short, I wouldn't count that engine out of the game. I like both engines (even though I haven't actually seen the Cummins, I like it on paper and from Tor's reviews) and think both would be great in an 80.
One thing to keep in mind though, is that the 1HDT only came with 164/267 from the factory. To wake them up, you need to upgrade the turbo... and to really wake them up you need to intercool. The PO also paid more for my 1HDT than the $7600 sale price for the Cummins 2.8... plus he bought the Gturbo that I enjoy everyday.
Ask @torfab . Tor has swapped 1HDTs (he did my swap as well) and has swapped Cummins 2.8s. He likes both engines and believes that they both perform well in an 80. One thing that the Cummins non mechanical approach can offer, though, is the ability to simply reflash and get 50hp and 150 ft lbs without the need for a turbo upgrade.
Long story short, I wouldn't count that engine out of the game. I like both engines (even though I haven't actually seen the Cummins, I like it on paper and from Tor's reviews) and think both would be great in an 80.
I look at one every day, and I see no Cummins in it, it's a Chinese small truck motor , I love my 6BT in my 80, I think it is the best way to put a diesel in one . This is just my opinion, if you feel you need the newest latest, unproven over years for our application it is your money and I hope it works out good for you
The 5.0 Cummins should be an interesting option if they ever release it as a crate engine. In the Nissan Titan the 5.0 makes 310hp and ~550 lbft, and apparently gets ~22mpg highway. Assuming Cummins certifies the 5.0 for only pre-2000 vehicles (like the 2.8) they would delete most of the emissions equipment (DPF, SCR, etc) resulting in better mileage and power. In a stock 80, that weighs a full 2,000 lbs less than the Titan, it would be reasonable to expect 25mpg.
There aren't many readily available transmissions that can stand up to the 5.0, so presumably Cummins would sell it as a 'powerpack' with the Aisin trans that sits behind the 5.0 in the Titan and is offered with the 6.7 in the Ram. Would be good karma replacing the A441F/A343 (made by Aisin) with another Aisin.
There aren't many readily available transmissions that can stand up to the 5.0, so presumably Cummins would sell it as a 'powerpack' with the Aisin trans that sits behind the 5.0 in the Titan and is offered with the 6.7 in the Ram. Would be good karma replacing the A441F/A343 (made by Aisin) with another Aisin.
