Switching to conventional suspension? (1 Viewer)

[kolyo]

Over here in the EU all imports from the USA or Australia are heavily taxed on top of the unattractive shipping costs. Here is a an option in case I am forced to switch to conventional suspension on my 06 uzj 100:
Toyota Landcruiser 100 Series Suspension | Pedders Suspension


Anyone care to comment?

 

[joseywales]

There are a ton of advantages to converting to conventional suspension. Even if you are not “forced” to convert, I’d consider starting to gather parts as it is only a matter of time until something fails in the AHC. I have a ‘99 (conventional) and an ‘06 (AHC) in the driveway and both I and my wife prefer to drive the ‘99. That is mostly due to the suspension and handling. The AHC truck has the 5 speed auto, and is arguably “better” because of it, but it FEELS slower, and heavier, even with street biased Michelin tires. The ‘99 is lifted and running 33” offroad tires and feels like a sports car in comparison.

Pedders is a very uncommon brand in North America, but I see them mentioned on LCOOL by the Aussies now and then. I don’t recall anything really negative being said.

 

[kolyo]

Thanks for your input!
I'd appreciate it greatly if anyone who owns an AHC and conventional Hundy would comment on the pros and cons of both. One can very easily be mislead if listening to "theoretical", biased or preconceived comparisons between the two systems. I do stray quite from the beaten track from time to time and would hate to be stuck in nowhere. Especially in my country where specialized LC aid is negligible

 

[joseywales]

The only “pro” to AHC is a very soft squishy ride. If you drive mainly highway and are looking for comfort, it’s fine. Everything else is a “con”. I’d be very surprised if you get more than one response saying different. (I’ve been wrong before, just don’t tell my wife!)

 

[Vildman]

I'm also in EU and have converted to conventional suspension. I ordered Tough Dog shocks and King Springs from www.euro4x4parts.com. They have great service and fast delivery from my experience.

 

[kolyo]

Thanks for replying, Vildman

What was the total cost of the conversion with Tough Dog shocks and King Springs? Was it a DIY job? /edit/ Can you post all the parts needed?

 

[SlowBuild]

The only “pro” to AHC is a very soft squishy ride. If you drive mainly highway and are looking for comfort, it’s fine. Everything else is a “con”. I’d be very surprised if you get more than one response saying different. (I’ve been wrong before, just don’t tell my wife!)

I’m not sure this is accurate. I’ll be the one response to present an opposing view:

AHC can be tuned softer or firmer according to performance or preference (and also dialed from ‘comfort’ to ‘sport’ on th fly) and can be adjusted according to load capacity. It is easy to add lift from 1/4” to 2.5” and anywhere in between (and also select from lo/n/hi settings as necessary) and maintain a fully functional system. As long as pressures are kept in spec and fluid is flushed every few years it is a low cost system and very rugged. New springs/spacers are cheap and last as long as traditional suspension parts. Globes (very expensive but not as much as a swap to conventional setup) may need replacing every 10-15 years but rarely (never?) suffer sudden failure that would leave you stranded.

There are several here on Mud with AHC on 10-15 year old armored/lifted expedition rigs, still going strong. It offers the possibility of greater clearance (in hi mode) while maintaining a lower ride height at other times compared to a conventional setup, for less stress on driveline components.

Another plus is that the ride height stays as set. If vehicle is overloaded, it does not sag or lose height as with conventional springs; it’s self-leveling and you won’t lose clearance if you add drawers in the back or load up your rack. True, if pressures are too high it can fail to maintain its hi or n setting and revert to n or lo but this is preventable by maintaining proper pressures.

If not maintained (fluid flushed, pressures kept in spec) then it can give poor results, but usually in these cases the system still can be saved. To my knowledge actual failure is uncommon. More often lack of understanding in the system leads it to be poorly maintained and abandoned rather than serviced.

If import tariffs push prices up enough to be prohibitive (replacement globes) then that’s a separate issue and is a major con. If the ride’s too squishy then adjust the pressures.

Full disclosure: my AHC rig is fully stock and I’ve driven it for less than a year. @joseywales is probably right - I’m ready to be blasted.

Everything above is what I’ve learned the past years reading this forum. Still, once dialed in I am happy with it compared to conventional suspension trucks I’ve had in the past. It allows me the performance I want off-road without my family complaining about the truck being too high to climb in and out of.

 

[MTKID]

I'm not really certain what your specific import tax question is with regard to AHC but I can tell you @SlowBuild is not the only one that values a properly working AHC... @PADDO @geanes @LandCruiserPhil @Bomar @ntsaint

 

[joseywales]

I’m not sure this is accurate. I’ll be the one response to present an opposing view:

Full disclosure: my AHC rig is fully stock and I’ve driven it for less than a year. @joseywales is probably right - I’m ready to be blasted.

Everything above is what I’ve learned the past years reading this forum. Still, once dialed in I am happy with it compared to conventional suspension trucks I’ve had in the past. It allows me the performance I want off-road without my family complaining about the truck being too high to climb in and out of.

That’s a great point of view. My driving experience is probably less than yours with AHC, and I’ll probably get blasted more than you. In the ‘06 LX I’m driving, I’ve had to learn how AHC is supposed to work, and although we’ve had a local Lexus dealer go through the truck from top to bottom, I’m not 100% sure that the suspension is working to its utmost potential. You do need an aftermarket controller to maintain “high” ride height at any speed above a crawl.
I realize that’s not a huge deal, but it is A deal of some sort. I look at the AHC like I do the emissions system on my diesel. As long as it keeps running well, I’ll leave it alone. As soon as it starts acting up and cost to repair to stock equals 50% of the cost of converting, I’ll convert.

 

[2002LXdreamer]

Question? Has anyone used the AHC shocks with upgraded suspension parts torsion bats and spring? Pros and con?

 

[kolyo]

AHC can be tuned softer or firmer according to performance or preference (and also dialed from ‘comfort’ to ‘sport’ on th fly) and can be adjusted according to load capacity. It is easy to add lift from 1/4” to 2.5” and anywhere in between (and also select from lo/n/hi settings as necessary) and maintain a fully functional system. As long as pressures are kept in spec and fluid is flushed every few years it is a low cost system and very rugged. New springs/spacers are cheap and last as long as traditional suspension parts. Globes (very expensive but not as much as a swap to conventional setup) may need replacing every 10-15 years but rarely (never?) suffer sudden failure that would leave you stranded.

@SlowBuild, your post was highly appreciated for two reasons:
- I am not exactly a spring chicken and comfort is high on my list of priorities;
- my arthritic wife climbs much easier into the truck when in Lo position.

The only reason I considered abandoning AHC is my almost total inability for DIY job, and knowledgeable/reliable TLC repair shops in my country are few and far between, to say the least. I have read all of PADDO's AHC related posts and and was terrified by the complexity of the jobs required to keep the system in my rig alive. Now your nudge was just the right encouragement I needed to try and master the high art (in my simple mind) of measuring pressures and AHC fluid change. I have even dared to buy a VCX NANO interface (hope it's the right one) and downloaded TechStream 12.20.024 plus VirtualBox - 5.2.6-120. Technical Gods, please be with me!!!

 

[kolyo]

See what I mean, I can't even post a picture properly

 

[geanes]

Just ran stock AHC in Big Bend on a fully loaded rig. It wouldn't go in high due to weight (WAAAAY more than I've even put in it: fully stocked drawer system, 100quart loaded cooler...some beer, 36quart loaded cooler...ALL beer, propane, tent, camp table, cooking supplies, 5 gallon jerry can of fuel, 10 gallons of onboard water, 2nd 33" spare on a steel wheel, etc). But, ran perfectly fine in Neutral on all of the rocky trails including Black Gap. Never once scrammed to LOW/Limp mode even with easily 800lbs of extra weight over the axles. Will be ordering AirLift airbags to assist along with new springs (mine are the originals at 20+ years). I will run the AHC until something very expensive completely craps out. Love the fact that I can run in High for more clearance on trails, Neutral on the highway for less stress on the driveline and Low when parked for less stress on ME (my wife is 5'3")....low also helps with getting this rig in my garage.

 

[kolyo]

100quart loaded cooler...some beer!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's the little things like that can wreck a rig

 

[geanes]

100quart loaded cooler...some beer!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's the little things like that can wreck a rig

Yeah, we thought that drinking all the beer would remove weight. It just transferred the weight from the cooler to our stomachs. I'm not really big on science stuff

 

[Batlowboy]

I'm a big fan of removing the AHC for conventional springs/ shocks set up, as I do a fair bit of off road driving and tow a heavy trailer all week for work. AHC proved to be unreliable for my needs, regularly dropping down to low setting when I needed clearance at critical times. My ride improved dramatically with Bilstein shocks, ridepro torsion bars and a 2 inch lift.

The following link is pretty much what I got, Vehicles - Toyota 100 series - Bilstein Kits 100 series - 4WP Group Pty Ltd .

I'm from Australia, I know quite a few guys that have had suspension upgrades, none through Pedders though, they aren't dedicated 4x4 specialists.

You'd probably have to find someone who can remove the AHC and modify the cars computer to avoid any dash warning lights coming up.

 

[kolyo]

[QUOTE
You'd probably have to find someone who can remove the AHC and modify the cars computer to avoid any dash warning lights coming up.[/QUOTE]

Very useful info in case I decide to go your way. Thanks a lot, mate

 

[geanes]

[QUOTE
You'd probably have to find someone who can remove the AHC and modify the cars computer to avoid any dash warning lights coming up.

Very useful info in case I decide to go your way. Thanks a lot, mate[/QUOTE]

No real modification necessary. You would just remove the associated fuses (3 total). Some replace the AHC and leave all the AHC components in. I think that's the wrong way to do it. You'd leave about 50 pounds of things. Removing the pump, reservoir, accumulator and globes is relatively easy. Removing the lines is a pain and messy. Replace the switch on the center console with the OEM "tray" for the 100 Series Cruiser. If the AHC indicator on the instrument panel annoys, remove the lights behind it.

 

[joseywales]

Just ran stock AHC in Big Bend on a fully loaded rig. It wouldn't go in high due to weight.

Love the fact that I can run in High for more clearance on trails.

Hmmmm. Something contradictory going on here...

I (as I mentioned in my last post) agree that it works well enough to leave alone until something costly lets go. Or it doesn’t function as it should in the circumstances I use the vehicle in. You just experienced that. It worked out okay at Big Bend (great photos by the way) but you might find it not so good if that scenario happens again at HIH or Moab, or Rubicon, or...

 

[geanes]

Hmmmm. Something contradictory going on here...

I (as I mentioned in my last post) agree that it works well enough to leave alone until something costly lets go. Or it doesn’t function as it should in the circumstances I use the vehicle in. You just experienced that. It worked out okay at Big Bend (great photos by the way) but you might find it not so good if that scenario happens again at HIH or Moab, or Rubicon, or...

Agreed. Thanks for the props on the photos. My buddy who went with me is a professional photographer and I'll upload his photos once he gets them to me. All of mine were done on an iPhone 8+.

I'm considering going with King Springs on the rear with AirLift bags for added rate on heavier loads and adjust the AHC. That should gain plenty of spring rate and run fine at that point. The front is perfectly fine. I ran all thru the San Juans (Corkscrew, Hurricane, Cinnamon, Imogene, etc.) and did TinCup and Mosquito Passes last September with almost as much weight (minus the 2nd spare and 100oz cooler). I was able to run in High on the trails with zero issues and never scrammed. I believe I was probably 200lbs heavier for Big Bend. I think AirLift bags would be enough. But, my springs are original and have had a very long life. I think it's time to retire them.