Builds Trifecta Build Thread - KOH EMC, Cruise Moab, Rubithon (1 Viewer)

[Charles4x4]

On one hand, it's good there is product out there for Long Travel IFS and both of these companies seem to have done a pretty good job building a kit that should serve the masses.

On the other hand, I doubt either would hold up to KOH EMC. I'll give them a call and see what they have to say.

By the way, I've been looking at used 4th gen 4runners and found a few v8 options around '04-'07 with ~150K miles for $5-8K. Wheelbase is close to 110, so it is a solid option for a base vehicle. I'm a little worried about it being top heavy in 4600 since you cannot cut exterior or interior sheet metal, but...

 

[Charles4x4]

Update:
I spoke with Pat at Total Chaos and they are interested but also super busy.

I also called Paul and Bobby at Solo Motorsports and they seemed interested as well. They thought the weak links would be:
1) Steering Rack - suggested beefing up a tundra rack (they use this on their vehicles - I send them a rack and they modify it)
2) Connections to the stock frame/mounts - suggested a lot of boxing, gusseting, etc here

They have looked into using a F-450 front diff, but also thought the stock diff or tundra diff may hold up to the 4runner v8 with 4.88s and an ARB locker (I'm still skeptical).

Still need to call Tim Lund at Wild West Off Road in Washington. But if he was doing Loren's new Red Dragon build, i'm sure he's $$$.

Track width on the crazy Long Travel kits is getting scary...

 

[Charles4x4]

I'm still debating what to do with the rear axle and suspension.

Rear Axle: The front width will be expanded by 9" total. I'd like to match that on the rear.
- I'm assuming I need Dana 60 equivalent? Any suggestions?
- Maybe something from Currie to match the front? I wonder if Currie makes a front diff for IFS? Maybe I need to call them next.

Rear Suspension: We have to keep coils and can only have 1 shock, but anything goes otherwise.
- Are there any over-engineered rear 4-link kits, preferably eliminating the panhard bar, that can hold up to KOH?
- Or would I have to start buying parts from Ruff Stuff or someone like 4WheelUnderground?
- Ideally we get around 21"+ of rear travel out of coils. Is this possible? Are there dual rate, long travel coils out there that work outside a Coilover?

Thoughts?

 

[matzell]

Dana 60 will not last in rear with any horspepower. Some say it will but I have seen too may destroyed.

 

[Charles4x4]

Dana 60 will not last in rear with any horspepower. Some say it will but I have seen too may destroyed.

What do you recommend? Dana 70 or more? I was assuming a Dana 60 would be fine... Remember for a 4600 class 4runner, it'll be the stock v8 (possibly some modifications) putting out 270 HP and 330 ft/lbs Torque. Certainly not a LS...

 

[RustyNailJustin]

Good info for sure, expecially on solo.
Having 21" of travel is going to be a chore with the shocks having to be mounted to the housing per the rule book.
I am going to jump on a different school of thought and say a true high 9 or something to reduce weight in the housing and get clearance to a premium with the 35s is the way to go.

 

[Charles4x4]

Good info for sure, expecially on solo.
Having 21" of travel is going to be a chore with the shocks having to be mounted to the housing per the rule book.

I read that section a few times. Here are the shock limits for 4600:
- One shock per wheel/tire
- No more than 2.65" in Diameter
- No more than 14" Stroke
- No Bypass Socks (position sensitive)
- Must be connected to the Axle and Chassis

To me, that means it can connect to shock hoops mounted to the frame (part of the chassis). Therefore, we aren't limited to the stock housing right?

I am going to jump on a different school of thought and say a true high 9 or something to reduce weight in the housing and get clearance to a premium with the 35s is the way to go.

Yeah, the currie F9 9-inch looks pretty awesome. Wonder if it will fit in a 4th Gen without excessive modifications? Looks like the diff is over $5k by itself, no shafts included (they are an additional $900 each)!

Wonder if there is a creative, budget friendly alternative? F-450, Tundra, Raptor, etc...? Or we can just get Currie to sponsor us .

I think the Currie F9 crate rear-end is $3K-6K.

 

[White Stripe]

You could probably use a 200 series rear axle used. Most of them are used for going back and forth to the mall so should be in good shape. I think they have 32 spline axles.

 

[Charles4x4]

You could probably use a 200 series rear axle used. Most of them are used for going back and forth to the mall so should be in good shape. I think they have 32 spline axles.

Not a bad idea. Width should be just right.

For the front diff, what about 200 series, Tundra, or Sequoia? Then paired with Currie CVs? Could that be an alternative to a $5-6K Currie F9?

 

[Charles4x4]

Ok, a few more updates. Right now my biggest concern for the Trifecta (desert, rocks, and trails) is the track width increase needed for true long travel suspension given we cannot create slim, centered front diff like the 4400 cars. If WMS gets to 70-74", that is just too wide for trails like Moab/Rubicon.

I did some research on CVs. RCVs are expensive, but look extremely strong. Not sure what Toyota diffs they would fit, but I assume they can fit almost anything. I'm guessing they would be quite a bit stronger than the Currie ones from Solo, but are probably more expensive.

Overall, I really like the idea of IFS. But, here are my biggest concerns:
- Overall cost vs. a 3rd gen SAS
- Overall width needed to hit 12-19" of Travel (good for desert, but too wide for trails)
- Front diff strength vs. cost ($5-8K), maybe a Tundra, Sequoia, 100/200 series diff is an option, but not sure if they will fit
- Rear suspension will be custom fab 4-link

But I do think I've solved:
- The steering rack (modified Tundra is possible)
- Rear axle options seem to be there (a LC 9.5" with Toyota Hubs - around $5K here: NPHTFJC-9.5
- And suspension strength seems to be better than expected with either Solo or Total Chaos

Not surprisingly, it's hard to build a Trifecta type rig. They are either good in the desert (no trees) or in the rocks (no high speed) or good on the trail (narrowed width), which is what makes this challenge so fun to tackle and exactly what makes KOH such a challenging, unique race.

 

[Charles4x4]

So, while I still like the idea of going all out, all this research has forced me to wonder how well a more moderately modified 4th gen would do best for the Trifecta type build and still survive KOH EMC?

Consider This Option:
- '05+ 4th Gen V8 4runner Sport (stock engine, no performance mods)
- Moderate Long Travel Kit (11-13" of Travel with 4" or so track width increase), 10" coilovers with RR, and various UCA/LCA mount reinforcements as needed: Solo or Total Chaos
- Stock front diff with 4340 Chromoly axle shafts, 4.88 gears, and ARB Locker
- Modified Tundra steering rack
- Stock rear diff with Chromoly axle shafts, 4.88 gears and ARB Locker
- 35's on 17" beadlocks and Fiberglass front fenders
- Rear HD link system, coils, and RR shocks (Total Chaos has a rear link system shown here)
- Stock transfer case or Atlas II
- Roll cage, racing seats, bumpers, winch, sliders, skid plates, and other safety stuff as needed for KOH

Would be significantly less $ and probably a ton of fun to race and upgrade as needed. It certainly wouldn't win, but who cares. My goal is to survive. Think it would survive?

I ran a quick budget and it's around $30K, not including the vehicle.

Thoughts?

 

[Pacer]

^^^ This!
Especially for your first rodeo, sans sponsorships.

 

[Charles4x4]

^^^ This!
Especially for your first rodeo, sans sponsorships.

Agreed. I'm going to start gauging interest... Wonder how I get in touch with Goodyear...

 

[RustyNailJustin]

So, while I still like the idea of going all out, all this research has forced me to wonder how well a more moderately modified 4th gen would do best for the Trifecta type build and still survive KOH EMC?

Consider This Option:
- '05+ 4th Gen V8 4runner Sport (stock engine, no performance mods)
- Moderate Long Travel Kit (11-13" of Travel with 4" or so track width increase), 10" coilovers with RR, and various UCA/LCA mount reinforcements as needed: Solo or Total Chaos
- Stock front diff with 4340 Chromoly axle shafts, 4.88 gears, and ARB Locker
- Modified Tundra steering rack
- Stock rear diff with Chromoly axle shafts, 4.88 gears and ARB Locker
- 35's on 17" beadlocks and Fiberglass front fenders
- Rear HD link system, coils, and RR shocks (Total Chaos has a rear link system shown here)
- Stock transfer case or Atlas II
- Roll cage, racing seats, bumpers, winch, sliders, skid plates, and other safety stuff as needed for KOH

Would be significantly less $ and probably a ton of fun to race and upgrade as needed. It certainly wouldn't win, but who cares. My goal is to survive. Think it would survive?

I ran a quick budget and it's around $30K, not including the vehicle.

Thoughts?

I think that's a good call but honestly I was hoping that you were going to do all the foot work on the ultimate 4600 front end then I would copy you and then out drive you at the races
But this works too. I am looking forward to your build.

Justin

 

[RustyNailJustin]

Agreed. I'm going to start gauging interest... Wonder how I get in touch with Goodyear...

Let me know if you need tire sponsor contacts. Generally getting a racer discount is really easy.... as soon as you prove yourself at 1 race. Worth a shot though.

 

[matzell]

I think Justin can chime in on this but I think the stock diffs are going to be your weak link with a v-8. They are small. Do no forget about all the body damage you may get as well with the stock 4unner body of any year. I look forward to seeing what you decide to build!

 

[Charles4x4]

I think that's a good call but honestly I was hoping that you were going to do all the foot work on the ultimate 4600 front end then I would copy you and then out drive you at the races
But this works too. I am looking forward to your build.

Justin

Thanks - I was relying on you to figure that out . On that note, this is the dream setup IMO, but likely not realistic (HERE). No idea if it requires frame mods and therefore won't fit the rulebook for 4600.


No matter what, I know 10x more about IFS than I did 2-weeks ago, so the realm of possibilities is certainly narrowing to what is and is not feasible. I'm feeling more and more confident that a 4600 IFS 4Runner is a real optoin!

 

[Charles4x4]

Let me know if you need tire sponsor contacts. Generally getting a racer discount is really easy.... as soon as you prove yourself at 1 race. Worth a shot though.

Hey, I'll take any contacts you can give. PM me - note that I was thinking Goodyear because the MT/R seems like a good fit for KOH and is 34.8" tall (a true 35). I need to get as close to 35" as possible. Also will need a wheel sponsor - beadlocks in 17s or 20s.

Overall, I'm believe this build will get a lot of attention, so it's a golden sponsorship opportunity. I reached out to 4 different groups yesterday (suspension, axle, shocks, and 4runner fab), so fingers crossed.

I'm also right down the street from Blue Torch Fab Works - I need to go meet those guys...

 

[Charles4x4]

Let me know if you need tire sponsor contacts. Generally getting a racer discount is really easy.... as soon as you prove yourself at 1 race. Worth a shot though.

Finally had a chance to read your thread on Pirate - what an amazing journey with the 4619! Given your experience, i’m Relying on you and others to let me know if I start heading down the wrong path.

I’m guessing the 4619 took 2018 EMC off?

 

[Charles4x4]

The 1st Gen SR5 Turbo goes up for auction next week on Bring a Trailer. Fingers crossed the seed money for this build is in place in the next few days. Also still working on sponsorships - I’m open to any and all suggestions! I’ve reached out to 5 groups so far...