Builds Trifecta Build Thread - KOH EMC, Cruise Moab, Rubithon (1 Viewer)

[matzell]

You will want a metal solid roof above your head! On my 4runner I cut the roof off at the bottom of the A pilar and built the cage then added a roof panel. Pic in my sig. 4500 class is getting crazy with horsepower some above 600 now.

 

[Pacer]

Subscribed, I wanna go racing too, too bad we're not closer.
Good luck and thanks for doing some of the heavy lifting!

 

[RustyNailJustin]

I also read the 4600 section closely. I may actually be closer to 4600 class than I had expected. Exceptions from my plans above include:
- 35s instead of 37s
- I cannot cut the cab or bob the bed
- No Supercharger allowed, but "boring, stroking, and other internal engine modification sare permitted"
- Only one shock per wheel, not two
- I cannot recess the fuel cell into the floor between the frame behind the rear seats
- No air bumps (rubber/poly bumps only)

But, the key question for me is this. If I combine these three sections:
- "Suspension configuration must remain stock, as originally manufactured (meaning that leaf springs must remain leaf springs, coil springs must remain as coil springs, torsion-bars must remain as torsion bars, etc)"
- "Coil-springs and related suspension linkage may be modified or limited and replace with any coil-springs and linkage, and may be installed in any location and orientation with the following limitations and exceptions: Coil-springs must be connected directly to the axle assembly and chassis...Coil-springs shall not be replaced with any type of coil-over shock, unless factory equipped (if so, factory coil-over shocks may be replaced with aftermarket coil-over shocks)"
- "Any and all axles assemblies are permitted"

If I'm interpreting this correctly:
- I can 3-Link SAS the front and replace the stock 4Runner Coilovers with 14" Aftermarket Coilovers with Remote Resevoirs
- I can put on an advanced 4-Link in the rear so long as I keep Coil-springs (no coilovers) with 14" Hi-Performance Shocks (not bypass though)

If this is right?

*The only issue I potentially see with the idea above is "The steering box (or rack, if so-equipped), must remain within 4" of the stock location"
- Maybe there is a creative way around this? Or does this kill my idea?


If this is a possibility, do you all think sacrificing the tire size, weight, power, and shock limitations above in order to be in the 4600 class (less rigs with far less power than 4500 class)? I can always modify further and run 4500 in 2020 if I'm not happy with the rig's performance outside KOH I guess.

And maybe there is a really tall 35" tire out there?

You can't SAS in 4600 class if it came Soild axle it has to stay solid axle, same goes for ifs.
You are right on the rear 4 link in a 4runner if you keep the coils and run a legal shock.

Seriously, I truly think a 4Runner like 05 ish with a coilover IFS, coil rear with links, and the Toyota V8 or built IGR-FE could be the fastest car in EMC not only 4600. IFS is not ok in the 4500 or 4800 class.
But with that said, build an ifs that can live is going to come at an expensive price.

 

[Charles4x4]

You can't SAS in 4600 class if it came Soild axle it has to stay solid axle, same goes for ifs.
You are right on the rear 4 link in a 4runner if you keep the coils and run a legal shock.

I think you’re right - not specific limitations on the axle but the steering box not able to be moved more than 4” from stock location probably kills a SAS.

Seriously, I truly think a 4Runner like 05 ish with a coilover IFS, coil rear with links, and the Toyota V8 or built IGR-FE could be the fastest car in EMC not only 4600. IFS is not ok in the 4500 or 4800 class.
But with that said, build an ifs that can live is going to come at an expensive price.

This is actually really intriguing. I watched the 4400 class again and it’s amazing how strong IFS (and now even IRS) have become. My wife was watching with me and we both said it’s feeling more and more like IFS is the way of the future in Ultra4.

I know nothing about the new generation of IFS - Long arms with CVs that are huge and can stand up to the hammers.

But, The beauty of it is that I haven’t purchased the vehicle yet, so it’s a very intriguing idea and anything goes at this point.

Any recommendation on where to start researching strong IFS front components including pricing? I need to rework the budget for this and see where it ends up. I assume a well built IFS would do well at Moab and Rubicon trail too...

I need to recruit some sponsors for this idea! It would certainly get attention in 2019.

 

[Charles4x4]

You will want a metal solid roof above your head! On my 4runner I cut the roof off at the bottom of the A pilar and built the cage then added a roof panel. Pic in my sig. 4500 class is getting crazy with horsepower some above 600 now.

Agreed. It’ll either have the factory roof (4600) or a metal roof per the requirements (4500). It’s scary how big the motors are getting in the 4500 class. And 4800 is unbelievable.

Amazing the EMC podium was 4500, 4800, and 4600 in ‘18!

 

[RustyNailJustin]

IFS has been the standard in desert racing for ever, Ultra4 evoleved so quick and it required the development of what's out there now for this type of racing.
The fact that a solid axle 4600 class took 3rd overall backs up the theory a really well done IFS, could win.
You can run a super charger or turbo in 4600 class if it was available in make model year.

 

[matzell]

IFS front end like the ones in 44000 class start around $30,000 and go from there. Adds up easily!!

 

[RustyNailJustin]

IFS front end like the ones in 44000 class start around $30,000 and go from there. Adds up easily!!

Yeah that's a fact. Major limiting factor on somebody actually doing it. I think you could take a total chaos ifs set up and go win all the pure desert races then get blown up at the rock events.

 

[Charles4x4]

Yeah that's a fact. Major limiting factor on somebody actually doing it. I think you could take a total chaos ifs set up and go win all the pure desert races then get blown up at the rock events.

Does something in between exist? Maybe not standard aftermarket of course, but not full blown 4400 for $30K.

 

[RustyNailJustin]

I would give total chaos a ring and see if they are interested in developing it.

I am interested in helping develop.

 

[Charles4x4]

I would give total chaos a ring and see if they are interested in developing it.

I am interested in helping develop.

Great - will do! Only other thing I was worried about is that most (if not all) of the 4400 IFS cars are rear engine to keep the front IFS as light as possible so it almost floats over the desert and rocks. Wonder how a we’ll designed IFS would work with a front engine and all the weight sitting on top of it (likely only fuel cell and battery in the rear).

 

[White Stripe]

You may be able to use a tundra 5.7 front suspension, hubs and axles with total chaos control arms. The tundra CV axles are pretty strong but won't give a ton of travel.

 

[CreeperSleeper]

Another person to call about IFS would be Tim Lund at Wild West Off Road in Washington.

 

[RustyNailJustin]

Another person to call about IFS would be Tim Lund at Wild West Off Road in Washington.

What's going on with them? Website is gone, Facebook hasn't been updated in along time. I believe they built Jason Sheeres front end and he just won KOH.

 

[CreeperSleeper]

He is still around, but just recently moved to a new shop.

 

[Charles4x4]

A few IFS 4400 cars I've been studying. The upper and lower control arms seem fairly straight forward. I need to learn more about their CVs/Diffs, steering rack (has to be extremely heavy duty), and front sway bar setup (some have it like Loren Healey's new Red Dragon bulid, and others don't like Shannon Campbell Dragon Slayer and Jimmy's MBRP).

I love the simplistic elegance of it.

 

[White Stripe]

A few IFS 4400 cars I've been studying. The upper and lower control arms seem fairly straight forward. I need to learn more about their CVs/Diffs, steering rack (has to be extremely heavy duty), and front sway bar setup (some have it like Loren Healey's new Red Dragon bulid, and others don't like Shannon Campbell Dragon Slayer and Jimmy's MBRP).

View attachment 1637882 View attachment 1637883 View attachment 1637884 View attachment 1637885

I love the simplistic elegance of it.

Clearly a whole different level than the aftermarket options today (Total Chaos):
View attachment 1637888

Curious how many labor hours it takes to fab a one off custom front ifs? Im guessing a lot.

 

[RustyNailJustin]

Curious how many labor hours it takes to fab a one off custom front ifs? Im guessing a lot.

Nobody really fabs um up anymore they are all engineered for the specific chassis. More like you build the chassis to fit the front end.

 

[Charles4x4]

Nobody really fabs um up anymore they are all engineered for the specific chassis. More like you build the chassis to fit the front end.

I'm sure the demand isn't huge for this, but maybe it's an opportunity for someone like Total Chaos or Tim Lund at Wild West Off Road in Washington would be interested in. We'll see...

 

[Charles4x4]

Here are the best two aftermarket companies I've found for the 4th Gen 4runner:

Total Chaos - 3.5" race kit with heim joints:

Specs:

• 100% chromoly constructed Race System offers maximum ground clearance and weighs 10 pounds less than the standard TC +3.5" LT kit.
• 3.5" extended 4130 chromoly tubular upper arms bolt to factory control arm mounting locations.
• Upper and lower ball joints are replaced with 1" uniballs for maximum wheel travel and component strength. TOTAL CHAOS includes 1" I.D. uniballs that feature a heat treated stainless steel ball & heat treated stainless steel race for maximum corrosion resistance and component longevity. These uniball's also features a military grade PTFE woven fabric liner that helps prevent noise.
• 4130 chromoly boxed and internally gusseted 3.5" extended lower control arms bolt to factory control arm mounting locations and are pre tabbed for dual shock capability.
• Lower control arms feature an integrated uniball cup that provides 2.5" additional ground clearance when compared to the standard mild steel +3.5" LT kit.
• Lower arms are 5 pounds lighter each side than the standard +3.5" LT kit.
• 2.5" long travel specific coil over shocks bolt into the factory coil bucket location. Extended travel shocks are too short and will not work.
• A secondary external bypass shock can be installed to increase dampening and tune-ability.
• Spring rate options offer the ability to customize your ride for your specific application allowing you to custom tune the vehicle for specific terrain or desired performance.
• Adjustable limit strap clevis' are included so that you can properly limit the suspensions droop wheel travel and make necessary adjustments during the life of the limit strap.
• DOT approved stainless steel braided brake lines, TC custom 17-4 stainless hi-misalignment spacers and grade 8 mounting hardware is included.
• TC 4340 custom extended axles reuse factory inner and outer CV's to retain 4wd.
  (axles are sold separately and not included with the kit)
• 2 stage powder coat process includes a durable clear coat to provide a long lasting finish.
• Hand crafted in the U.S.A.

Pricing & Notes:

• Price: $3,945
• OPTIONAL HEIM PIVOT UPGRADE
• TC includes 3/4" chromoly lined heim joints for the pivots.
• 4130 chromoly tubing heim upper control arms are fully adjustable to allow maximum tuning of caster and camber.
• Zero bushing deflection

Solo Motorsports - XLT Series:

Specs:
Solo Motorsports Inc. has taken an innovative approach to increase the normal long travel numbers of 13″ of 4WD travel to a usable 19″ of 2WD and 4WD travel by only going 4 1/2″ over per side as compared to the industry norm. We are proud to offer our XLT Series for Tacomas, FJ Cruisers, and 4Runners. The XLT series kit is 4 1/2″ over stock and with all the required components will achieve 19″ of 4WD travel on 35″ tires.

• Tubular Upper Control Arms or Boxed UCA Upgrade with 3/4″ Heims and Misalignments
• Boxed Lower Control Arms, Urethane Pivot Bushings, and 1″ Uniballs
• Fully-Fabricated 4WD Vertical Uniball Spindles with 1″ Uniballs and Misalignments
• Forged Dana 44 Hubs
• Forged Dana 44 Snouts
• Koyo Inner/Outer Bearings
• Hubs seals
• New 12mm wheel studs (upgradeable to 5/8″ x 3 studs)
• Snout nut kit
• Stainless Steel Brake Lines
• Built in LCA strike pads
• 7/8″ Outer Heims at the Spindles
• 1 pr Limit Straps
• Billet Steering Connectors (7/8″ to stock. Add 3/4″ inner heim and clevis upgrade recommended for full 19″)
• Grade 8 Hardware

Pricing & Notes:

• 19″ XLT Series Long-Travel 4WD Kit $4250 (4WD Axle Package additional)
• 19″ XLT Series Long-Travel 2WD Kit $4350
• Boxed UCA Upgrade add $475
• 3/4 Inner Heim and Clevis Upgrade add $450

• Upper Inner Fender sheet-metal Modifications (Extra Suspension Up-Travel)
• Consider 2″ Stroke Short-Body Bumpstops
• 6″ front fiberglass is recommended.
• Experienced professional installation recommended.