Thx., @cruzerDave. I'm in! Just made it official on the group buy post. Can't wait to rip out that sore-thumb of a billet grill.
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Group Buy has been running, will close Monday: SharkNet Group Buy - 100 series grillThanks for being as upfront as possible Dave. Its refreshing to have an actual idea of whats going on with a project in this day and age. Is there a projected timeline and total cost for the group buy?
Good job Dave! Keep charging.I promised to keep everyone updated with how this product development goes, and this is not one of those posts I wanted to make, but hey, full transparency...
I am really loaded with so many things going on and this being a side gig, so I was really hoping that this vendor I found would be my answer for how to offer the grill as a long term product with minimal effort on my end, even if it meant not making too much on each sale. They would take care of everything from ordering materials to packaging, and all I would have to do is give them shipping labels. Unfortunately, all of that service apparently costs more than I ever suspected:
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Those of you following along will recall I was going to sell the group buy at $99. Yeah, the math is broke on this now.
Now this was my plan A, not my only plan. When you set out to do this sort of thing hopefully you always are thinking 'what is my backup plan' because folks, you're going to need it more times than you expect. Hell, I would say have 2 backup plans for every plan, what is the saying, 2 is 1 and 1 is none? So 3 is enough. Probably.
My backup plan was me running around from vendor to vendor to buddy to vendor, and at the end of the day if my time is free I can still clear a couple bucks on the group buy. But that is not necessarily the best use of my time, when I have 200 series owners wanting drawers, 60 series yipping, Land Rovers & Subies saying what about us, Remora deserving of some love, and 11 other R&D projects I desperately want for my rig on hold for time.
Hmph.
Where does that leave things? Well the group buy is going forward (I am a man of my word) but the price is going up and the next iterations will need to fight for my time with other projects. If someone with another year/model send me their grill it will encourage me to build theirs next, but my bandwidth to hunt them down is unlikely near term.
Thanks Kelly - headsup though that I started KISS Drawers with black oxide screws because I loved the look. About 6 months later a customer sends me a pic of his drawers and the bolts are rusting, inside his truck. Yes it was a salty NE location, but I went and looked at some of mine (which had been in service an additional 4 months) and was seeing slight signs of rust as well. THAT cost me a pretty penny as I bought and mailed out to all customers SS replacements - ouch. I now use zinc-plated inside as Ben (Dissent) advised me against stainless (can still get rusting) and he used zinc-plated. I trusted his advice figuring if it was good for bumpers it would do for drawers, and have since read several other sources saying the same thing. If I didn't sweat the potential visibility of a shiny bolt head breaking the aesthetic of a kick-a$$ all-black (inside) grill, I wouldn't hesitate and go with the plated. (edited my above post where I mistakenly wrote SS!)I have been using 316 stainless with a black oxide button heads from McMaster Carr. They are on many of my grilles now so I guess they are being put to the test. I wasn’t sure if the black oxide would last or not, but the stainless grade is good. So far mine look good but no salt here. I was thinking about having the heads powder coated but it would probably be too thick and the Allen wrench then wouldn’t fit. I might try it sometime if I’m going for a specific look.
I use a combination of stainless and zinc, black zinc is nice but hard to come by for some reason. stainless is fine for non structural situations where extreme corrosion resistance is needed but for most situations black, gold or silver zinc will work just fine. The biggest thing to watch out for on stainless to stainless hardware is galling, antiseize must be used to prevent this on stainless.Thanks Kelly - headsup though that I started KISS Drawers with black oxide screws because I loved the look. About 6 months later a customer sends me a pic of his drawers and the bolts are rusting, inside his truck. Yes it was a salty NE location, but I went and looked at some of mine (which had been in service an additional 4 months) and was seeing slight signs of rust as well. THAT cost me a pretty penny as I bought and mailed out to all customers SS replacements - ouch. I now use zinc-plated inside as Ben (Dissent) advised me against stainless (can still get rusting) and he used zinc-plated. I trusted his advice figuring if it was good for bumpers it would do for drawers, and have since read several other sources saying the same thing. If I didn't sweat the potential visibility of a shiny bolt head breaking the aesthetic of a kick-a$$ all-black (inside) grill, I wouldn't hesitate and go with the plated. (edited my above post where I mistakenly wrote SS!)
I haven't seen your bolts to understand how they are putting a black oxide on stainless (does not match my understanding of the process), but felt you and others might benefit from hearing of my bad experience with black oxide...
Thanks @benc - I can attest to the power of zinc-plating, on my bumper from you I replaced the 8 bolts that hold down the small bull bar with socket button heads because I liked the more flush look. They were stainless from Ace but guys there didn't know what grade (no way 316 though, wrong color) and the only bolts with any rust on or near them after a year are those - all the zinc-plated you sent me look great, thank youI use a combination of stainless and zinc, black zinc is nice but hard to come by for some reason. stainless is fine for non structural situations where extreme corrosion resistance is needed but for most situations black, gold or silver zinc will work just fine. The biggest thing to watch out for on stainless to stainless hardware is galling, antiseize must be used to prevent this on stainless.
My main reason for not using stainless on the main bolts on the rear bumpers is cost and strength, all small hardware I use 18-8 grade stainless which has seemed to work well. I have a few customers that have used the black oxide stainless but I have not personally had any experience with them.
I continue to wait, after a week, to even HEAR if my final proto sheet metal piece is done or imminent. I swear, anyone looking to start building products, FIGURE OUT YOUR SUPPLY CHAIN and have redundancies in there. It costs more to set up 2 suppliers than 1 yes, but good grief this is painful too. My only other option at the moment is to go from laser to plasma (not desirable for finish quality), go out of town (not desirable for shipping cost), or wait. Sigh. Well, 1 more guy have a source for me I am following, but since this is a build and lesson thread, however much grief you think you're going to get from sourcing: double it. Then double it if you live in a smaller town and have fewer options.
All the small bolts I supply with the fronts are 18-8 grade stainless, the only zinc coated bolts for the fronts are the frame bolts. Sounds like they likely didn't give you stainless from ace.Thanks @benc - I can attest to the power of zinc-plating, on my bumper from you I replaced the 8 bolts that hold down the small bull bar with socket button heads because I liked the more flush look. They were stainless from Ace but guys there didn't know what grade (no way 316 though, wrong color) and the only bolts with any rust on or near them after a year are those - all the zinc-plated you sent me look great, thank you
When you hear myself or another vendor talk about frustrations with suppliers, trust me they are only sharing a tenth of their frustrations with you or online. The amount of headaches and PITA issues can not be understated. It is the single worst part of this "job". For anyone considering making something for our community I don't want to discourage you, but I DO want you to be mentally prepared for a never-ending battle. Of course, I'm in a particularly lousy mood today because my CNC'er forgot to switch bits while cutting KISS plywood and now the tiny nail holes for the trim pieces are actually huge holes that the nails will fall right through, and I need to get him to recut those bits, and my customers will be stuck waiting another week. Grrrr.
For SharkNet (the point of this thread) this means the mesh is... *somewhere*. Last time I shipped freight from LA it was about 4 days, and that is what was promised this time as well. Pull up tracking, however, and you can see that it kinda looks as though it came to Bend, then left, and then the warehouse crew has been playing hot potato with the pallet:
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DON'T THOSE TRUCKERS KNOW PEOPLE ARE WAITING ON THEIR AWESOME CUSTOM GRILLS?!?!?!!!!
I have no idea what's happening with that mesh but my (3) suppliers who are next in the process are all on standby (as best they can be, it's not like they don't have other customers and projects to do), but any of them could also have a problem, get sick, make mistakes, or run off to Hawaii to catch an epic storm surge or something.
The point is (for those taking notes in anticipation of starting up their own side business) control as much of the supply chain yourself as you can, and if you are still designing your product design it around materials and vendors that are a) close, b) you can trust, and c) don't surf.
LOL, gotta say thanks for the quotes, "stress is a mess, throw it away" was great, but "go on a living spree" is epic. I think I will make that my saying of the month in June or July and just shut everything down and go do just thatTotally with you on all points (except maybe the surf part). I have been in powder coating for 25 years and with limited supply dependence, it is tough enough. Now with trying to manufacture items with lots of steps, it really is a fight to kick off stress. If it weren't for the awesome MUD community, I would have quit already!
Excited for my grille, but not in the least bit concerned about timeframe. Carry on and NO WORRIES!
Cheers