Ideas for improving the 2LTE (4 Viewers)

[advlars]

.

 

[advlars]

Agreed.
That nipple fed the factory boost sensors and IP boost compensator on my 2lt (now 5L-T). Should hold fine with a small hose clamp or ziptie unless youre running a bunch of boost.

Lars

 

[advlars]

Also, whats your plan for conversion? what turbo? what kit?

 

[kw90surf]

Big thanks to GTSSportCoupe for starting this thread and providing us with his research, anecdotes and experience tinkering and pushing the limits of this little engine and giving it a chance. It's inspiring. I'll share what I've done (much of it taken from this thread), and the results it's given me.

I have the 2L-TII, so effectively the same engine (in a Hilux Surf), just mechanically injected as opposed to electronic. When I bought the truck at 122,000km, it had just had the head replaced due to overheating and cracking. The previous owner claims to have advanced the timing slightly, although I haven't gotten around to verifying that yet. I can say I've been getting tremendous mileage with it though. When I first brought it home, on 215/85R15 snow tires and stock everything, I averaged 32 MPG (imp) the whole way from SK to NS.

Cooling:
To start, I flushed the coolant and refilled it with 60/40 Toyota Red with Redline Water Wetter. I also replaced the thermostat with an 82*C one. I also installed an aftermarket water temp gauge (in the location where the A/C trip-off probe was, as I deleted the AC), a pyrometer and a boost gauge. I had an issue once with the temp gauge creeping up to red on me while I was sitting idling, an issue that I attributed to both the lack of fan shroud (the ham-fisted PO broke it and threw it out), and the fan clutch not functioning as it should. So, while I was waiting for my cousin to send me a new shroud from NZ, I took the clutch apart and added some silicone oil (RC truck diff oil) to it. That brought the running temps down to 180*F, and since I installed the shroud, down further to around 160-170*F. I could probably take some more oil out to get rid of some parasitic loss (you do feel it, and it did knock the MPG down a bit, I added way too much at first), but I'd prefer to err on the side of caution.

Exhaust+Turbo+Boost Compensator:
I needed a new muffler and tailpipe for NS inspection, so I had buddy do up a 2.5" stainless from the crossmember back through a Magnaflow. I didn't have the pyro installed beforehand, but just this change alone brought the truck (now wearing 31" ATs) back up to its same butt-dyno power as it had with the smaller tires. In this configuration, I was about 600-750*F EGTs (post turbo) cruising on the highway at 115kph, with the ability to get it above 1100* on hills if I wasn't paying attention.

I followed this up by blocking off the EGR, removing the throttle plate and modifying the boost compensator. The compensator on the 2L-TII has a reservoir with an inlet nipple that the boost comes through, pushes down on a diaphragm, which is attached to a metered rod, which travels down against a spring preload, which delivers more fuel. Issue is the inlet orifice is TINY!! A pollution control device, no doubt. Drilled that sucker out, and turned the diaphragm around so that the most gradual ramp on the metering rod was being used, and put it back together. This was done with guidance from the ToyotaSurf forums. All I can say is WOW, the difference those modifications made to the drive-ability of the truck cannot be understated. It used to be gutless until it was in boost, then there would be a big (well, small, it's a 2LT) "whoosh" of power at 2300rpm or so, which would then fall flat on its face by 3000rpm. Not sure how the 2LTE responds to boost, but I'd be curious to know if it's at all similar. Removing the throttle plate meant it actually moved out of its own way when not in boost (read: significantly torquier and more responsive to throttle inputs), and spooled quicker, with much more linear power delivery. This off-boost performance increase was felt especially when puttering around in the woods. I was also getting full boost and full fuel delivery in every gear now, including first, where before it didn't spend enough time in boost to fill the compensator through that tiny hole in first and second! Worth noting, the boost on my truck has been turned up to 10-11psi.

Most recently, I did from the turbo back to the crossmember in mandrel-bent 3" stainless, and moved the EGT probe pre-turbo. I also completely deleted the EGR, and everything EGR-related, as well as all of the remaining A/C stuff, and further fine-tuned the compensator setting. Funny, even through it's mechanically injected, the 2L-TII still has a TPS, boost sensor, and mess of VSVs and vacuum lines. Come to figure out, all of that nonsense is just to make the EGR work. I was able to delete all the VSVs and vacuum lines, leaving only one line coming out of the throttle body, which goes to a tee where it feeds my boost gauge, the compensator and the boost sensor (wanted to keep the boost light). Nice and neat.

The 3" downpipe and exhaust made a big difference as well. Before the throttle plate removal, boost comp mod and 3" exhaust, pulling out of my rather steep driveway I had stalled before even with full throttle and a good chunk of clutch slip. Now, spins both rears with 1/3 throttle. Blipping with throttle in first when idling along on gravel spins the rear tires. With the 3" downpipe and exhaust now, I see boost by 1500rpm (11psi by 2000rpm), and hills that presented an issue for EGTs before are a non-issue, I can actually maintain speed up them while seeing lower temperatures pre-turbo than I was seeing post-turbo before. About 500-600*F cruising 115kph, 900-950* on hills. It also pulls well up into the rev range now, I planted my foot in 5th and managed to see 135kph at 3400rpm and it was still pulling. Impressive, seeing how it was when I got it. Will now cruise happily at 125kph and 3000rpm all day, and still return over 30 MPG.

Next on the list are front mount air-to-air intercooler and snorkel. Then I'll start playing with fuel and boost and report back. Overall though, I must say, just these things alone have transformed the engine. It's fairly snappy around town now, and feels more at ease on the highway. Much more pleasant (and fun) to live with.

Cheers

 

[LN106]

Also, whats your plan for conversion? what turbo? what kit?

DTS Turbo Kit. I priced out Denco and Turbo Glide but they were going to be double the cost.

MItsubishi TD04

Right now it is connected to the stock exhaust and haven’t touched the pump.

 

[dare]

I've recently got my LN60 4runner (2L 2.4D) going again after 2 years off the road and I must say it's quite interesting to compare to my BJ73 with a 3B.

Compared to the 3B it can't pull as well on the highway, it can't really cruise any faster than 100km/h but for just general driving around it's much more enjoyable. It's more flexible, it certainly has better low end and it revs cleanly. It's also quieter and smoother.

I was just going to sell it but I might keep it for a while and turbo it.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Big thanks to GTSSportCoupe for starting this thread and providing us with his research, anecdotes and experience tinkering and pushing the limits of this little engine and giving it a chance. It's inspiring. I'll share what I've done (much of it taken from this thread), and the results it's given me.

I have the 2L-TII, so effectively the same engine (in a Hilux Surf), just mechanically injected as opposed to electronic. When I bought the truck at 122,000km, it had just had the head replaced due to overheating and cracking. The previous owner claims to have advanced the timing slightly, although I haven't gotten around to verifying that yet. I can say I've been getting tremendous mileage with it though. When I first brought it home, on 215/85R15 snow tires and stock everything, I averaged 32 MPG (imp) the whole way from SK to NS.

Cooling:
To start, I flushed the coolant and refilled it with 60/40 Toyota Red with Redline Water Wetter. I also replaced the thermostat with an 82*C one. I also installed an aftermarket water temp gauge (in the location where the A/C trip-off probe was, as I deleted the AC), a pyrometer and a boost gauge. I had an issue once with the temp gauge creeping up to red on me while I was sitting idling, an issue that I attributed to both the lack of fan shroud (the ham-fisted PO broke it and threw it out), and the fan clutch not functioning as it should. So, while I was waiting for my cousin to send me a new shroud from NZ, I took the clutch apart and added some silicone oil (RC truck diff oil) to it. That brought the running temps down to 180*F, and since I installed the shroud, down further to around 160-170*F. I could probably take some more oil out to get rid of some parasitic loss (you do feel it, and it did knock the MPG down a bit, I added way too much at first), but I'd prefer to err on the side of caution.

Exhaust+Turbo+Boost Compensator:
I needed a new muffler and tailpipe for NS inspection, so I had buddy do up a 2.5" stainless from the crossmember back through a Magnaflow. I didn't have the pyro installed beforehand, but just this change alone brought the truck (now wearing 31" ATs) back up to its same butt-dyno power as it had with the smaller tires. In this configuration, I was about 600-750*F EGTs (post turbo) cruising on the highway at 115kph, with the ability to get it above 1100* on hills if I wasn't paying attention.

I followed this up by blocking off the EGR, removing the throttle plate and modifying the boost compensator. The compensator on the 2L-TII has a reservoir with an inlet nipple that the boost comes through, pushes down on a diaphragm, which is attached to a metered rod, which travels down against a spring preload, which delivers more fuel. Issue is the inlet orifice is TINY!! A pollution control device, no doubt. Drilled that sucker out, and turned the diaphragm around so that the most gradual ramp on the metering rod was being used, and put it back together. This was done with guidance from the ToyotaSurf forums. All I can say is WOW, the difference those modifications made to the drive-ability of the truck cannot be understated. It used to be gutless until it was in boost, then there would be a big (well, small, it's a 2LT) "whoosh" of power at 2300rpm or so, which would then fall flat on its face by 3000rpm. Not sure how the 2LTE responds to boost, but I'd be curious to know if it's at all similar. Removing the throttle plate meant it actually moved out of its own way when not in boost (read: significantly torquier and more responsive to throttle inputs), and spooled quicker, with much more linear power delivery. This off-boost performance increase was felt especially when puttering around in the woods. I was also getting full boost and full fuel delivery in every gear now, including first, where before it didn't spend enough time in boost to fill the compensator through that tiny hole in first and second! Worth noting, the boost on my truck has been turned up to 10-11psi.

Most recently, I did from the turbo back to the crossmember in mandrel-bent 3" stainless, and moved the EGT probe pre-turbo. I also completely deleted the EGR, and everything EGR-related, as well as all of the remaining A/C stuff, and further fine-tuned the compensator setting. Funny, even through it's mechanically injected, the 2L-TII still has a TPS, boost sensor, and mess of VSVs and vacuum lines. Come to figure out, all of that nonsense is just to make the EGR work. I was able to delete all the VSVs and vacuum lines, leaving only one line coming out of the throttle body, which goes to a tee where it feeds my boost gauge, the compensator and the boost sensor (wanted to keep the boost light). Nice and neat.

The 3" downpipe and exhaust made a big difference as well. Before the throttle plate removal, boost comp mod and 3" exhaust, pulling out of my rather steep driveway I had stalled before even with full throttle and a good chunk of clutch slip. Now, spins both rears with 1/3 throttle. Blipping with throttle in first when idling along on gravel spins the rear tires. With the 3" downpipe and exhaust now, I see boost by 1500rpm (11psi by 2000rpm), and hills that presented an issue for EGTs before are a non-issue, I can actually maintain speed up them while seeing lower temperatures pre-turbo than I was seeing post-turbo before. About 500-600*F cruising 115kph, 900-950* on hills. It also pulls well up into the rev range now, I planted my foot in 5th and managed to see 135kph at 3400rpm and it was still pulling. Impressive, seeing how it was when I got it. Will now cruise happily at 125kph and 3000rpm all day, and still return over 30 MPG.

Next on the list are front mount air-to-air intercooler and snorkel. Then I'll start playing with fuel and boost and report back. Overall though, I must say, just these things alone have transformed the engine. It's fairly snappy around town now, and feels more at ease on the highway. Much more pleasant (and fun) to live with.

Cheers

Awesome write-up, thank-you very much! Thanks for contributing to this thread. You will be very pleasantly surprised when you intercool it. Intercooling I found was the main key to unlocking the potential of these motors. Then you can start playing with higher boost levels and further tweaking the boost comp for more aggressive fueling.

I'm particularly interested in your write up, as I recently bought a Hilux Surf with a 2LT-II and R150 to get me around while I do some work on my Landcruiser. I also removed the emissions crap from the 2LT-II and the throttle plates. The reason there are sensors is the engine does have an emissions computer to control the EGR system. Anyhow, it's good to know about the boost compensator modification. I might give that a try. It's been tough driving a stock tune 2LT-II after being so used to my 2LTE. Not sure how far I'll take things, as I should be putting the effort into getting work done on my Landcruiser.

 

[kw90surf]

Awesome write-up, thank-you very much! Thanks for contributing to this thread. You will be very pleasantly surprised when you intercool it. Intercooling I found was the main key to unlocking the potential of these motors. Then you can start playing with higher boost levels and further tweaking the boost comp for more aggressive fueling.

I'm particularly interested in your write up, as I recently bought a Hilux Surf with a 2LT-II and R150 to get me around while I do some work on my Landcruiser. I also removed the emissions crap from the 2LT-II and the throttle plates. The reason there are sensors is the engine does have an emissions computer to control the EGR system. Anyhow, it's good to know about the boost compensator modification. I might give that a try. It's been tough driving a stock tune 2LT-II after being so used to my 2LTE. Not sure how far I'll take things, as I should be putting the effort into getting work done on my Landcruiser.

I look forward to it! I'm at sea until August, so I'm gonna try and get the intercooler in when I return. Haven't decided yet whether I'll go the pradocruzer route of a bleed valve on the line to the compensator, or whether I'll do some math and try to play with spring rates inside the compensator, modify/regrind the metering rod, or what. We'll see. Gonna shoot for 16 psi and adjust the fueling until I'm happy with the EGTs. I may end up using the truck to tow a 2000lbs car on a trailer, so I'd be curious how it would do with that. You tow with yours, correct? How heavy is your trailer, and how do you find it tows it?

To answer your question about the boost compensator, tear that sucker open. It's a free mod and it'll only take you 20 minutes or so to do. You'll see immediately what I mean about the tiny orifice. I think the idea was that the small orifice, combined with a rather large chamber, meant that when the truck comes under boost, the boost trickles in slowly, then has to fill up the cavity, and only THEN can it push down on the diaphragm and give it more fuel, which would limit the amount of smoke due to overfuelling during off-boost and low-boost conditions. Problem is, of course, that causes a massive lag, and as well, the engine doesn't spend enough time under load in first or second gear to actually fill the compensator and bring it online. This, for me, meant I would only get 4-5 psi tops in those gears, and I wouldn't get the fuel to match (slow). This, combined with the fact that mine (which I assume was untouched before I opened it), was set with the metering rod rotated to its least gradual setting (started off straight with no fuel increase for the first bit of travel, and then had a very steep ramp once you were a couple of psi in), compounded the issue. This again, can only have been to keep the smoke down around town. Now the compensator comes online immediately, and gives me that extra fuel as soon as I'm in boost, also giving me the fuel required to attain full boost in first and second gears (or when I'm riding the clutch pulling away, which has made pulling away uphill much less of an adventure). You can also fill the compensator lid cavity with epoxy if you want to go full send. There's an excellent thread on toyotasurf.asn.au about this, written up by user Terry Syd.

Here: Toyota 4WD Surf Owners • View topic - 2LT Boost compensator

Post up a picture of your Surf!

Cheers

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

I look forward to it! I'm at sea until August, so I'm gonna try and get the intercooler in when I return. Haven't decided yet whether I'll go the pradocruzer route of a bleed valve on the line to the compensator, or whether I'll do some math and try to play with spring rates inside the compensator, modify/regrind the metering rod, or what. We'll see. Gonna shoot for 16 psi and adjust the fueling until I'm happy with the EGTs. I may end up using the truck to tow a 2000lbs car on a trailer, so I'd be curious how it would do with that. You tow with yours, correct? How heavy is your trailer, and how do you find it tows it?

To answer your question about the boost compensator, tear that sucker open. It's a free mod and it'll only take you 20 minutes or so to do. You'll see immediately what I mean about the tiny orifice. I think the idea was that the small orifice, combined with a rather large chamber, meant that when the truck comes under boost, the trickles in slowly, then has to fill up the cavity, and only THEN can it push down on the diaphragm and give it more fuel, which would limit the amount of smoke due to overfuelling during off-boost and low-boost conditions. Problem is, of course, that causes a massive lag, and as well, the engine doesn't spend enough time under load in first or second gear to actually fill the compensator and bring it online. This, for me, meant I would only get 4-5 psi tops in those gears, and I wouldn't get the fuel to match (slow). This, combined with the fact that mine (which I assume was untouched before I opened it), was set with the metering rod rotated to its least gradual setting (started off straight with no fuel increase for the first bit of travel, and then had a very steep ramp once you were a couple of psi in), compounded the issue. This again, can only have been to keep the smoke down around town. Now the compensator comes online immediately, and gives me that extra fuel as soon as I'm in boost, also giving me the fuel required to attain full boost in first and second gears (or when I'm riding the clutch pulling away, which has made pulling away uphill much less of an adventure). You can also fill the compensator lid cavity with epoxy if you want to go full send. There's an excellent thread on toyotasurf.asn.au about this, written up by user Terry Syd.

Here: Toyota 4WD Surf Owners • View topic - 2LT Boost compensator

Post up a picture of your Surf!

Cheers

Thanks for all the info on the Boost Comp! I had no idea how limited these were. I did play around a little bit with my friend's HDJ81 boost comp, so had a rough idea how they work, but sounds like the Surf's are set way more conservative.

The Surf I bought has 180,000km on it and generally was well maintained. I got it cheap ($2000) because it had a couple problems. Alternator needed rebuild (which I fixed), but the main issue is the dual mass flywheel is shot (and probably clutch too). This is part of the reason I have not played around too much to get more power. I can't even put stock power down before the clutch (or flywheel?) starts slipping. As you know, the LN106 solid mass flywheel and a new clutch run some serious $$ and I don't want to get too distracted from my Landcruiser. So I'm just driving the Surf around town and being very gentle with it.

As far as towing goes, I think once you're intercooled, you should be ok towing to the rated limit of a 2nd gen 4Runner (3500lb?). Having the manual transmission is a real benefit for towing compared to auto, as you have an extra gear. Also, you won't get the extra heat from the torque converter that the auto gets. You'll need trailer brakes for sure though. If you are doing big hill climbs towing you'll just want to gear down and take your time.

I tow a 3500lb camper trailer (loaded) with my LJ78. Total weight of loaded truck and loaded trailer is about 9000lb. It does it pretty good, but will get hot on long steep up hill grades in summer heat. I have Evans waterless coolant which really helps in this regard, as even when it gets hot I don't have to worry about boiling issues. Works quite well.

Here are a few pictures of my Surf shortly after I bought it. It's got a little bit of rust, but not too bad. Would clean up pretty nice actually. I just need to finish my cruiser first.

 

[kw90surf]

Thanks for all the info on the Boost Comp! I had no idea how limited these were. I did play around a little bit with my friend's HDJ81 boost comp, so had a rough idea how they work, but sounds like the Surf's are set way more conservative.

The Surf I bought has 180,000km on it and generally was well maintained. I got it cheap ($2000) because it had a couple problems. Alternator needed rebuild (which I fixed), but the main issue is the dual mass flywheel is shot (and probably clutch too). This is part of the reason I have not played around too much to get more power. I can't even put stock power down before the clutch (or flywheel?) starts slipping. As you know, the LN106 solid mass flywheel and a new clutch run some serious $$ and I don't want to get too distracted from my Landcruiser. So I'm just driving the Surf around town and being very gentle with it.

As far as towing goes, I think once you're intercooled, you should be ok towing to the rated limit of a 2nd gen 4Runner (3500lb?). Having the manual transmission is a real benefit for towing compared to auto, as you have an extra gear. Also, you won't get the extra heat from the torque converter that the auto gets. You'll need trailer brakes for sure though. If you are doing big hill climbs towing you'll just want to gear down and take your time.

I tow a 3500lb camper trailer (loaded) with my LJ78. Total weight of loaded truck and loaded trailer is about 9000lb. It does it pretty good, but will get hot on long steep up hill grades in summer heat. I have Evans waterless coolant which really helps in this regard, as even when it gets hot I don't have to worry about boiling issues. Works quite well.

Here are a few pictures of my Surf shortly after I bought it. It's got a little bit of rust, but not too bad. Would clean up pretty nice actually. I just need to finish my cruiser first.

Damn, nice Surf! For $2,000 that's a deal! It honestly looks pretty clean too. Same colour and options as mine Those altimeters are worth a bit of money these days. And you still have your factory battery hold downs! Jealous!

Yeah, it's not cheap to convert to solid mass. I will go that route once my dual-mass goes out. It chatters a little bit when pulling away, not sure how much of that is due to the flywheel and how much is due to my leaky rear main. You're lucky you were able to rebuild your alternator! I inadvertently fried mine by allowing a positive lead to ground out on the A/C pulley. Nuked the voltage regulator and the rectifier. Was able to source the voltage regulator (only one left in some warehouse in Toronto), but the rectifier was a no-go. Had to settle with a Chinese made alternator from Alibaba. Seems to be ok so far. If I roll up a window and hold the switch for an extra second once it's up, all the lights on the dash blink . Funny, it was making all sorts of noise shortly after I put it on, rattling and grinding. I figured the bearings were toast. Turns out the machining of the internals of the vacuum pump on the rear of the new alt was absolute garbage and it was full of burrs and the like. Luckily, the Chinese ripped off the Denso alternator so completely, that the Denso vacuum pump swapped onto the Alibaba alternator without issue!

Thanks for the info re:towing, I think I'd be closer to 7500-8000lbs GCVW (you're right, 3500lbs towing capacity), but definitely trailer brakes. I'll also be upgrading to Evans when funds permit. Might permit me take a bit of fluid out of my fan clutch as well. See if I can crack my 34 MPG record now that I have manual hubs.

If you ever get the urge to sell your grille, roof racks or front window rain deflectors, let me know!

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Damn, nice Surf! For $2,000 that's a deal! The Surf honestly looks pretty clean too. Same colour and options as mine Those altimeters are worth a bit of money these days. And you still have your factory battery hold downs! Jealous!

Yeah, it's not cheap to convert to solid mass. I will go that route once my dual-mass goes out. It chatters a little bit when pulling away, not sure how much of that is due to the flywheel and how much is due to my leaky rear main. You're lucky you were able to rebuild your alternator! I inadvertently fried mine by allowing a positive lead to ground out on the A/C pulley. Nuked the voltage regulator and the rectifier. Was able to source the voltage regulator (only one left in some warehouse in Toronto), but the rectifier was a no-go. Had to settle with a Chinese made alternator from Alibaba. Seems to be ok so far. If I roll up a window and hold the switch for an extra second once it's up, all the lights on the dash blink . Funny, it was making all sorts of noise shortly after I put it on, rattling and grinding. I figured the bearings were toast. Turns out the machining of the internals of the vacuum pump on the rear of the new alt was absolute garbage and it was full of burrs and the like. Luckily, the Chinese ripped off the Denso alternator so completely, that the Denso vacuum pump swapped onto the Alibaba alternator without issue!

Thanks for the info re:towing, I think I'd be closer to 7500-8000lbs GCVW (you're right, 3500lbs towing capacity), but definitely trailer brakes. I'll also be upgrading to Evans when funds permit. Might permit me take a bit of fluid out of my fan clutch as well. See if I can crack my 34 MPG record now that I have manual hubs.

If you ever get the urge to sell your grille, roof racks or front window rain deflectors, let me know!

Thanks for the compliments on the Surf. Yeah, at that price I just couldn't resist it. I'm sure there were many more practical daily driver's I could have bought....haha.

The alternator had actually been rebuilt before I got the truck, but had died for some reason. I pulled it and brought it to a local auto electric outfit. They replaced the rectifier I think which was all it needed. Lucked out I guess. Cost $80 I think. Maybe the previous owner did what you did and caused similar damage? The batteries are really new, so maybe it happened around then.

Sure, if it ever gets parted out, I'll give you dibs on those parts.

Regarding your clutch fan, the internal pumping and clutch mechanism won't work properly if you have too much silicone oil in there. This will mean full power to the fan all the time, which will eat into your power and fuel economy. It also won't net you any more power to the fan when you actually need it. It's just the viscosity that does that. So might be worth draining it all out, and just putting the right amount back in. Diesel's also are most efficient at 88C. So if you're consistently running cooler than that, then you are loosing efficiency there too. I moved to a Tridon highflow 88C thermostat, and it works awesome. Keeps it at a solid 88C, but when cooling is needed, it opens really wide to allow above average coolant flow.

 

[kw90surf]

Regarding your clutch fan, the internal pumping and clutch mechanism won't work properly if you have too much silicone oil in there. This will mean full power to the fan all the time, which will eat into your power and fuel economy. It also won't net you any more power to the fan when you actually need it. It's just the viscosity that does that. So might be worth draining it all out, and just putting the right amount back in. Diesel's also are most efficient at 88C. So if you're consistently running cooler than that, then you are loosing efficiency there too. I moved to a Tridon highflow 88C thermostat, and it works awesome. Keeps it at a solid 88C, but when cooling is needed, it opens really wide to allow above average coolant flow.

Yeah, I'm generally around 165*F. I can get it up to 180*F, but have to work it fairly hard. I may just drain the fan and start over as you say. However, I'm not convinced my fan "clutch" is actually clutching in. Feels like the fan is nearly at full power most of the time. I know when I far too much fluid in the first time it was at full power full time time, I was running 140*F with no shroud. It was gutless when it was cold, huge parasitic drag. Lost 4 MPG as well. Took a fair bit out and the drag is not nearly as bad but it's still running cool. Do you find you can tell when your clutch "clutches in"? Like is there a marked difference (cooling, noise, drag) that you notice when driving when it gets to the specified temp? I may have to pull mine off and verify that the bi-metallic strip is doing its job.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Yeah, I'm generally around 165*F. I can get it up to 180*F, but have to work it fairly hard. I may just drain the fan and start over as you say. However, I'm not convinced my fan "clutch" is actually clutching in. Feels like the fan is nearly at full power most of the time. I know when I far too much fluid in the first time it was at full power full time time, I was running 140*F with no shroud. It was gutless when it was cold, huge parasitic drag. Lost 4 MPG as well. Took a fair bit out and the drag is not nearly as bad but it's still running cool. Do you find you can tell when your clutch "clutches in"? Like is there a marked difference (cooling, noise, drag) that you notice when driving when it gets to the specified temp? I may have to pull mine off and verify that the bi-metallic strip is doing its job.

Yes, I can definitely tell a difference when it engages. Usually I don't notice it, but when it engages it roars. It'll do this for a bit on a cold start too, as all the silicone oil is sitting in the bottom of the clutch. It takes a while for it to get pumped into the internal reservoir. If you have not seen it, this is a great video to watch on how they work. They are amazing little units really:

 

[AirheadNut]

That's really cool! It is almost like a temperature controlled Torque Converter.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

That's really cool! It is almost like a temperature controlled Torque Converter.

One thing it doesn't show, is that the outside of the clutch disk is actually a pump. It's what is responsible for pumping the fluid that exits the clutch surface back into the reservoir in the center of the unit. So basically when the valve is open the fluid circulates from the reservoir to the clutch surface to the outside circumference of the unit, and then is pumped back into the reservoir. When the valve is closed, it's pumped into the reservoir and stored there. If you have too much fluid in the unit, this won't work properly, as the reservoir won't be able to hold all the fluid.

 

[Vossie]

read through alot of this thread and boy, thanks for all the info!

im currently looking at a Surf with the 2L-TE and auto box. its got an indicated 210,000 kms on it and is in a bit of rough shape, well, rough round the edges.

what should i be on the look out for, other than all the normal diesel things?

also, coming from a 12HT powered FJ45, which im keeping no matter what, whats the driving experience of the stock 2L-TE like, and then the modded (intercooler, big exhaust, fiddled with and tuned) 2l-te like?

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

read through alot of this thread and boy, thanks for all the info!

im currently looking at a Surf with the 2L-TE and auto box. its got an indicated 210,000 kms on it and is in a bit of rough shape, well, rough round the edges.

what should i be on the look out for, other than all the normal diesel things?

also, coming from a 12HT powered FJ45, which im keeping no matter what, whats the driving experience of the stock 2L-TE like, and then the modded (intercooler, big exhaust, fiddled with and tuned) 2l-te like?

A stock 2LTE will be much like a 3B in terms of power. So really pretty lacking compared to any modern vehicle. Fine for back roads, but borderline for interstate type driving.

A modified 2LTE is something totally different. I can cruise at 145km/h in my lifted LJ78 weighing around 5500lb. I can do an 8% grade at 110km/h at the same weight. A Hilux Surf weighs 800lb less I think and is more aerodynamic than a 70 series; so I'd imagine with the same modifications it would rip along just fine. The 2LTE will never have the wide torque band of your 12HT. Being smaller displacement it will be very reliant on boost to make torque. I get 19psi post intercooler by about 2300rpm which is where I get peak torque. Peak power is around 3800rpm in my case. And of course being an IDI engine, it will be less efficient than your 12HT, with more heat lost to coolant. If you modifiy one up, I highly recommend going to Evans Coolant to avoid localized boiling in the head etc. Works really well in my experience.

In terms of checking it out, I recommend the following:

Before starting it, remove the radiator cap and look to see if the coolant is full. If there is air in there, it could indicate a cracked head or a coolant leak somewhere. Look at the coolant to make sure it is clean and the mix looks right.. If it's really dirty, it could be from a cracked head.

Start it cold. Let it glow only once for the factory time period (7-8 sec). Make sure it doesn't smoke and miss on start-up. This would indicate glow issues, or compression issues. Make sure there is no white smoke indicating coolant burning.

Feel the rad hose when it first starts up, make sure the rad hose does not get super hard really fast, as this could mean a cracked head pressurizing the coolant.

Look for oil leaking from the intake piping/throttlebody/intake manifold. This is from the engine spewing a lot of oil out the PCV into the intake. It could also indicate turbo seals being worn out.

Look for the engine burning oil. Could be worn turbo seals again, or just oil being spewed from the PCV. The PCV on these has a filter that can get plugged and needs cleaning. When plugged it can cause a lot of oil to be blown out.

Check for blow-by: Unscrew the oil filler cap while the motor is running. Sit the cap in the hole, and see how much air is blowing out past it. Should be no worse than this:



Make sure the motor has a distinct diesel sound, and is not too quiet. Too quiet means the injection pump is wearing out and the timing is retarded.

Inspect the injection pump to make sure it's not leaking. This would mean it needs new seals.

When driving, look for smoke out the back. Make sure the turbo spools up ok to full boost. Take it up a long grade if you can, and make sure the temperature is stable. Although you should know the Hilux Surf temp gauge is not linear. Here is a fix if you buy it: Temp Gauge Mod

These things came with a dual mass flywheel which comes apart around those number of kms. Budget around $1000 in parts to replace the flywheel and clutch. Listen for strange tinny noises. Those are broken spring parts bouncing around in the flywheel.

Everything else is like any other 2nd gen 4runner, check for rust, check front axle boots, check for leaks, check exhaust, brakes, etc.

 

[Vossie]

A stock 2LTE will be much like a 3B in terms of power. So really pretty lacking compared to any modern vehicle. Fine for back roads, but borderline for interstate type driving.

A modified 2LTE is something totally different. I can cruise at 145km/h in my lifted LJ78 weighing around 5500lb. I can do an 8% grade at 110km/h at the same weight. A Hilux Surf weighs 800lb less I think and is more aerodynamic than a 70 series; so I'd imagine with the same modifications it would rip along just fine. The 2LTE will never have the wide torque band of your 12HT. Being smaller displacement it will be very reliant on boost to make torque. I get 19psi post intercooler by about 2300rpm which is where I get peak torque. Peak power is around 3800rpm in my case. And of course being an IDI engine, it will be less efficient than your 12HT, with more heat lost to coolant. If you modifiy one up, I highly recommend going to Evans Coolant to avoid localized boiling in the head etc. Works really well in my experience.

In terms of checking it out, I recommend the following:

Before starting it, remove the radiator cap and look to see if the coolant is full. If there is air in there, it could indicate a cracked head or a coolant leak somewhere. Look at the coolant to make sure it is clean and the mix looks right.. If it's really dirty, it could be from a cracked head.

Start it cold. Let it glow only once for the factory time period (7-8 sec). Make sure it doesn't smoke and miss on start-up. This would indicate glow issues, or compression issues. Make sure there is no white smoke indicating coolant burning.

Feel the rad hose when it first starts up, make sure the rad hose does not get super hard really fast, as this could mean a cracked head pressurizing the coolant.

Look for oil leaking from the intake piping/throttlebody/intake manifold. This is from the engine spewing a lot of oil out the PCV into the intake. It could also indicate turbo seals being worn out.

Look for the engine burning oil. Could be worn turbo seals again, or just oil being spewed from the PCV. The PCV on these has a filter that can get plugged and needs cleaning. When plugged it can cause a lot of oil to be blown out.

Check for blow-by: Unscrew the oil filler cap while the motor is running. Sit the cap in the hole, and see how much air is blowing out past it. Should be no worse than this:



Make sure the motor has a distinct diesel sound, and is not too quiet. Too quiet means the injection pump is wearing out and the timing is retarded.

Inspect the injection pump to make sure it's not leaking. This would mean it needs new seals.

When driving, look for smoke out the back. Make sure the turbo spools up ok to full boost. Take it up a long grade if you can, and make sure the temperature is stable. Although you should know the Hilux Surf temp gauge is not linear. Here is a fix if you buy it: Temp Gauge Mod

These things came with a dual mass flywheel which comes apart around those number of kms. Budget around $1000 in parts to replace the flywheel and clutch. Listen for strange tinny noises. Those are broken spring parts bouncing around in the flywheel.

Everything else is like any other 2nd gen 4runner, check for rust, check front axle boots, check for leaks, check exhaust, brakes, etc.

thanks for the awesome reply!

so ive driven the surf now, really quite impressed for it being stock and all. ive had a KZ-TE intercooled manual transmission 2nd gen surf before, and this doesnt feel all that bad compared. i thought it would be a slug, and it just isnt.

the engine seems nice and tight. starts easy, seems to have good compression and no smoke no matter how you treat the loud pedal.

i havnt been able to cold start it, as when i got there they had run it to drive it outside the lot. but im pretty confident that its in ok condition (the engine that is) and that whatever happens i can sort it out.

is there any way to tell if the head has ever been replaced?

and bc every one likes pics:

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

is there any way to tell if the head has ever been replaced?

One thing I've noticed with all the new cylinder heads, is there are white characters marked on the top of the head (under the valve cover on the injector side). This is not something you can see without removing the valve cover.

I've also heard that the original factory head gasket was painted black along with the engine block and cylinder head as one assembly. If the head gasket was changed, it will be unpainted bare metal at the edge. So look very closely. Might have to clean a part of it. The original head gasket never fails, it's always the cylinder head. So if there is a new gasket, there is a new cylinder head.

 

[jozefwright1]

Hi Guys

I am new to the forums and landcruisers! I have just purchased a 1992 LJ78 Landcruiser Prado EX for work
I will add some photos below. The truck is a fresh jap import super tidy inside and out with a verified 110,000km on the clock.

I am wondering what you guys think my first upgrades/mods should be to the 2L-TE
?

I am thinking I will add a K&N Air Filter, does anyone know the exact one I need for an LJ78?

Also thinking of swapping out the factory exhaust pipe with a 2.5inch one

I want to add the proper gauges to monitor this ( water temp, exhaust gas temp and maybe boost gauge?)

After reading some of the other threads/forum I am thinking about putting in a Air to Water intercooler as well.

Don't have a lot of money currently to spend on upgrade/mods atm but what would the first couple of things you guys recommend doing to counter the overheating issues with the 2L-TE?

Much appreciated
Joe