the SharkNet (a product build thread) (1 Viewer)

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I've got lots more to share and talk about but time is tight at the day job right now, so will address the corners real quick.

YES they look like $h!t right now:

upload_2017-12-14_8-55-32.png


The reasons is that I had envisioned the grill sitting farther back in the plastic trim, which was the profile I tried to match. As I finally had a piece in there though, that wasn't working as well or looking as good so I moved it forward to where you see it. As mentioned in last post I know I have at least 2 iterations of sheet metal before done: I'm 80% of the way there now with this alpha, next beta unit will be 98%, then couple final tiny tweaks and check it again on the production #1 unit. Assuming ti is good then I release for full production.

Remember this is the 'new product development' thread where I share all the ugly secrets of NPD with you, warts and all ;)

Anyone that's seen my KISS Drawers know the quality level I hold myself to and you can rest assured this grill will be no less than my best:rainbow:
 
Dave, that looks awesome! I need an LX version. But, heck, this does give me a perfect excuse to buy an LC now :)
 
I've got lots more to share and talk about but time is tight at the day job right now, so will address the corners real quick.

YES they look like $h!t right now:

View attachment 1591415

The reasons is that I had envisioned the grill sitting farther back in the plastic trim, which was the profile I tried to match. As I finally had a piece in there though, that wasn't working as well or looking as good so I moved it forward to where you see it. As mentioned in last post I know I have at least 2 iterations of sheet metal before done: I'm 80% of the way there now with this alpha, next beta unit will be 98%, then couple final tiny tweaks and check it again on the production #1 unit. Assuming ti is good then I release for full production.

Remember this is the 'new product development' thread where I share all the ugly secrets of NPD with you, warts and all ;)

Anyone that's seen my KISS Drawers know the quality level I hold myself to and you can rest assured this grill will be no less than my best:rainbow:

That was kinda what I was thinking. On install will we have to cut out like you did? or is more of an unscrew something and screw this on.
 
I'm subscribed to all of these threads because to see the product development happen is very inspirational. Not a lot of startups or other companies would go through something like this.
 
That was kinda what I was thinking. On install will we have to cut out like you did? or is more of an unscrew something and screw this on.
To keep cost down I am reusing the OEM plastic surround, so yes you will have to cut it off. It is *really* easy, done with a keyhole saw ($5 if you don't already have one) in about 5 minutes. Then some sanding or filing to clean up the remnants (depending on how precise you were cutting), and screw the grill in. Oh, and you'll have to bend some tabs with your hands (done so it ships flat = lower shipping cost). Grill will already be powdercoated a glossy black (matte looked like cheap rattlecan, trust me) so no painting required.

Easy peasy 10 minute job. I'll even put up an install video for everyone because I know it's scary once the saw comes out...
 
Love it. I'm in for first 10 if you have a spot.

Thanks!
 
I'm also interested. Thanks
 
EMLBEMS
I'm thinking not included because so many different opinions exist on the matter, people have an old FJ60 emblem they like, they want the aluminum TEQ one, they don't want one at all, etc etc. I'm looking to have someone else package this product and the last thing I need is to carry 10 different skus for the 98-02, then 10 for the 03-07, then 10 for the LX, etc you get the idea. Stocking and inventory nightmare. I will offer some emblems if I can make them cheap enough, or try to import a box from Indonesia (which is where the 70 series on there came from) - to be worked out in the coming weeks.

GROUP BUY
Didn't get to last night, sorry, last-minute Christmas shopping. Let's say up this weekend and then I won't change on you again.

PRICING
Agree $99 is nice, but that is barely worth my time so it *will* be going up, exact amount tbd based on where another supplier I am talking to hits. I will share the cost breakdown as part of this 'new product development' thread approach and let the community say what they think I should be charging :hmm:
 
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EMLBEMS
I'm thinking not included because so many different opinions exist on the matter, people have an old FJ60 emblem they like, they want the aluminum TEQ one, they don't want one at all, etc etc. I'm looking to have someone else package this product and the last thing I need is to carry 10 different skus for the 98-02, then 10 for the 03-07, then 10 for the LX, etc you get the idea. Stocking and inventory nightmare. I will offer some emblems if I can make them cheap enough, or try to import a box from Indonesia (which is where the 70 series on there came from) - to be worked out in the coming weeks.

GROUP BUY
Didn't get to last night, sorry, last-minute Christmas shopping. Let's say up this weekend and then I won't change on you again.

PRICING
Agree $99 is nice, but that is barely worth my time so it *will* be going up, exact amount tbd based on where another supplier I am talking to hits. I will share the cost breakdown as part of this 'new product development' thread approach and let the community say what they think I should be charging :hmm:

Sounds good to me. I will get a couple 70 emblems for me. I have a different mesh sitting and waiting for my 80 grille anyway and it wil get a 70 series emblem too. I love my TEQ badge but I'm sick of people asking what it is.
 
ASSEMBLY

<warning, crappy looking prototyping ahead>

I'm playing with 3 different methods - through bolt & nut, stainless self-tapping screw, and black auto trim screw with integrated washer (needs pilot hole). I like the last 2 because I *believe* they will hold well over time in the plastic trim, whereas the bolt/nut is at risk to loosening unless threadlockered. And before anyone says 'lock washer' be prepared to prove to me why those WILL work - I've had more times than not where they work loose, and going through plastic you can not tighten too much before cracking so that is my dead last choice at the moment.

upload_2017-12-15_8-58-43.png


The entire grill is attached to the plastic trim by tabs the customer can bend by hand, they've been scored to ensure proper fold points. I use 8 at the moment, debating whether I need more, might use 6, honestly struggling to picture *why* this thing needs to be 10x stronger than the OEM plastic...
 
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Without a "surround" around the that type of mesh it would be hard to keep it from coming apart.


I think it would look better if you did away with the metal trim outer material and just used grill material. Having the plastic trim, the metal trim, and then the grill material looks off to me. Or make the make the outer trim metal flat rather than upright.
 
@White Stripe thank you for your opinion, and @ScubaJon answered part of it. I was also asked why it doesn't use a solid wire like @Luke111 posted on page 1, so in the interests of sharing the process with everyone, here y'all go.

THE SURROUND

Short answer: designed for producing at scale

Long answer: When the wire is cut on a plasma table, you can not realistically start every time at the same place in the wire, you start on the sheet. So that means if the mesh had a 90 degree corner it might sometimes be on a place where the wires cross, other times just on one wire, and others it might be in space. What THAT in turn means is that as you cut the profile some places may cut cleanly on a place where the wires cross, and others may cut through them, and on a corner that might mean a piece has nothing to attach to and falls out. Sort of like here on the proto:

Screen Shot 2017-12-16 at 1.22.22 PM.png


Without something to 'trim' the edges it's not going to look very clean with little pieces missing on some and not on others.
(and for those wondering why am I not using fully welded woven wire, where there's a weld at every 'cross', it's because I can't find any in this diamond configuration, just rectangles which looks dumb for a grill)

So what to do for that surround? Before I answer that you also have to think about how you're going to build 20 of them that install the same for every customer, every batch.

One method is as @Luke111 pointed out, a thick wire stock around the edge, with tabs cut and welded on.

Screen Shot 2017-12-16 at 1.30.15 PM.png


That works, for sure on a one-off, but hand welding can be variable, and welder time costs money (I don't weld yet), two strikes against it. Every customer grill from Toyota is the same, so ideally every grill from LSO is the same too, ensuring consistent fit. If a guy is doing that by hand he is either slowing down in a jig he built, bending the wire by hand, and making sure they are consistent (more time = more cost) or he is busting them out to keep time & cost down (but then quality will suffer).

Cutting the surround on a laser and allowing the welder to tack to the back of that allows him freedom to go fast - if he shifts the mesh a little from one to the next it won't impact the final product. This keeps welding cost down, but adds some to the sheet metal - net reduction tho, and better manufacturability & consistency.

Finally, answering @White Stripe, running the surround trim 'flat' would be (within my and my suppliers capabilities) impossible. That plastic is concave. convex, curving, slanting, and generally all over the place. Any attempt to match that with flat stock would involve tons of fitment compromises - I don't even want to contemplate it.

So that leads us to what you see in the alpha proto above, a 1/2" surround. In the next, 'the beta', I plan to go from 1/2" to 1/4" wide but increase the sheet metal thickness several steps to maintain rigidity and reduce warping during welding (offset by manually bending back into position = more labor cost). We'll see how that looks and decide thin or thick.

So there you go, some of the design considerations being balanced by the manufacturing and cost considerations, as I promised I would share with you.
 
I have to step in and defend the humble bolt and nut :)
By all means do not bother with lock washers, waste of time. There are a lot of good alternative locking hardware options about however, and unless I am mistaken on fitment, it would be very handy to have the disassembly advantage of bolt and nut versus a self-tapping screw or other less reusable option (I don't know WHY I want to get in there yet (rad/fan/coolant pipes issue access?) but the idea of a 'quick' release grill is appealing.

That being said, all buyers probably could handle swapping out a self-tapper or whatever you ship with if they were so inclined and the tabs etc. allow..

Happy to discuss hardware more offline if you prefer
 
GROUP BUY IS LIVE
SharkNet Group Buy - 100 series grill

This is for the 98-02 LC only, sorry other 100 series but I *will* get to your grills next!

First (18) at $99 - price later in the $125-149 range (and that post on costs is still coming since this is the Open Kimono Product)

upload_2017-12-18_8-22-5.jpeg
 

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