Meh, that's from nearly a year and half ago. It's far, far, worse now....
Would You Buy a Diesel 200? (1 Viewer)
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Meh, that's from nearly a year and half ago. It's far, far, worse now....
Markuson
SILVER Star
Where Toyota will (IMHO) never compete with Jeep (even with a strippy version 70) is with Jeep’s MASSIVE modification variety/availability. It would take *decades* of solid commitment to the US market before Toyota could even put a dent in Jeep’s following as a modder’s canvass. It took 8 years of the 200 before we really had much choice in bumpers... Heck, the LX is only just finally seeing slider options 9 years in.
Jeeps can be bought on a budget and modded with too many choices to count.
I’m no Jeep guy...but they are king of the mod market by far.
Jeeps can be bought on a budget and modded with too many choices to count.
I’m no Jeep guy...but they are king of the mod market by far.
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Somewhat related and interesting article. Diesel burbs, or duraburbs, and how a cottage industry supports this niche configuration - https://jalopnik.com/how-to-build-the-chevy-suburban-diesel-that-gm-wont-sel-1821199538
That is more realistic than shoving A 1VD in a 200 since the Duramax engine has demonstrated emissions compliance. The 1VD is not legally-importable at this time.
The cost of those diesel burbs are absurd - about $135k. For that price, you could buy a new burb AND a heavy duty pickup.
Yes, the Diesel engine will get better fuel economy than a gas burb. But you can buy a bunch of gas for $50k.
They are definitely cool, but seem pointless to me unless you are building it into an armored car.
Yes, the Diesel engine will get better fuel economy than a gas burb. But you can buy a bunch of gas for $50k.
They are definitely cool, but seem pointless to me unless you are building it into an armored car.
some people would, but their too far and few between that it woudnt make sense to even offer it. and what would be a realistic price for a new 70, 30-35k? for that price your going to be getting more luxury from a 4runner that may be a few years old. personally i would love a bare bones truck or minimal sort of options available and a diesel
$30k for a 70? I’d be stunned. Again, Chicken Tax. Any light duty truck sold in the US, not built in NA, carries a 25% tariff. It’s hard to be competitive in a mature industry when you’re taxed 25% more than the products around you. Hence all the truck plants in Mexico, Canada, and the US. Which is also probably why we won’t see a Hilux. If it and a Tacoma both cost $40k in a vacuum, the Hilux will cost $50k here. Hard to compete with that substantial cost disadvantage.
No way a 70 would be $30k. $60k, maybe.
Cummins Crate Engines - Get Ready to Repower - Cummins Engines
I see this as a more viable option if Cummins creates a larger engine with this sort of package. These are designed for wranglers/discos mostly but if a larger version (read: more power) could be made to fit a 80/100/200 series, it could work well. They come ready to drop in with wiring and all for 9k. Getting this to talk to a 200 would be no easy task but if Cummins didn’t directly support it, there are aftermarket companies who specialize in diesel conversion wiring.
I see this as a more viable option if Cummins creates a larger engine with this sort of package. These are designed for wranglers/discos mostly but if a larger version (read: more power) could be made to fit a 80/100/200 series, it could work well. They come ready to drop in with wiring and all for 9k. Getting this to talk to a 200 would be no easy task but if Cummins didn’t directly support it, there are aftermarket companies who specialize in diesel conversion wiring.
If you really want a diesel 70, your best bet is to just buy a 25 year old 70. Want a 1VD? Swap the engine. If you want a fancy front end, just bolt on the parts (I believe it mostly bolts on?). Updated dash may bolt in too. A 1993 70 isn't enormously different than 2007 70. I've certainly been perusing the 70 forum and clicking though austousa.com and tradecarview.com often lately.
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Logically, I can't imagine a 70 would cost $60k here. If the 70 were to be sold in the U.S., I'd imagine it would start being built here too in order to cover the additional demand as current production appears to be maxed out and there is a high global demand.
Even if assume they were able to increase foreign production, and assuming the chicken tax applies, I think $60k is a stretch. The special edition 70 in Japan listed for $35k in 2014, which included modern safety features the AUS version does not have. The last model FJ Cruiser, which was built in Japan, topped out at $36k in 2014. Maxed out 4Rs, which are also built in Japan are selling around $40k with stickers around $45 max. The Sr5 4x4 4R stickers at $35,785. I would think a U.S. version of the 70 would have similar features and costs, probably closer to an FJ cost based on features with a gas engine with conservatively a $4-5k premium for a diesel option. The more expensive GXL wagon in Australia is $57k in USD. The 200 series optioned out is nearly $100,000 USD. Pricing in the U.S. is generally competitive, even with the chicken tax. If the 70 were to be produced here, the price could drop even more.
I know the 70 is a pipe dream with the 4R being sold here. For most consumers, they are very similar vehicles, and the 4R is probably a bit smoother on the road, where 99% of the mileage on U.S. 4x4s is occurring. I'd love to see a modern 40 here. I'd love to see the 70 here. Even if it is viable (and I think a modern 40, say with the 4R 4.0 v6, would be a very popular rig), Can you imagine if this had been the FJ Cruiser instead:
it isn't in Toyotas current DNA. Sadly, they'd rather add removable fog lights, 22 inch wheels, built in cameras to records your adventures (no way brah!), and a built in a bike rack vs. a more capable off road vehicle with a SFA. Sadly, I think Toyota is more likely to move to unibody front and rear IFS vs giving us a SFA again.
I do think that CAFE standards, if not modified, are going to have a larger impact than emissions. Car manufacturers will be forced to increase fleet mpg through hybrid, ev and even diesel.
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If industry movements are any indication of where the LC is headed:
1) Lexus LC-F is likely receiving a 4.0L twin-turbo with upwards of 592hp. LS500 receiving a 3.5L twin-turbo v6. Either or both of those torque rich power plants, with minimal tune changes, would be a good fit for the new 300-series LC. As Merc has done with their G550/G63, which never gets knocked for lack of scoot. Or the ton other manufacturers that have gone this direction (Ford, Audi, etc.)
2) 2018 Jeep Wranger is getting a 48-volt mild hybrid 2.0-liter turbocharged inline-four. It's also getting a diesel.
3) 200-series has a diesel. It didn't make it to the US. There's practically no new pressures or demand today that would call for the 300-series to bring the diesel model into the US.
1) Lexus LC-F is likely receiving a 4.0L twin-turbo with upwards of 592hp. LS500 receiving a 3.5L twin-turbo v6. Either or both of those torque rich power plants, with minimal tune changes, would be a good fit for the new 300-series LC. As Merc has done with their G550/G63, which never gets knocked for lack of scoot. Or the ton other manufacturers that have gone this direction (Ford, Audi, etc.)
2) 2018 Jeep Wranger is getting a 48-volt mild hybrid 2.0-liter turbocharged inline-four. It's also getting a diesel.
3) 200-series has a diesel. It didn't make it to the US. There's practically no new pressures or demand today that would call for the 300-series to bring the diesel model into the US.
The 4Runner isn’t “probably a bit smoother” on the road than a 70 Series. It is a bunch better on the road. Solid front axles simply suck on the road. They add a ton of unsprung weight, which significantly reduces ride quality. The lighter the unsprung weight, the easier it is for the shock to control movement of the wheel. In addition, a solid axle results in both wheels being affected when you go over a sharp bump. And it also affects steering.
There is a reason that the only SUVs in the US with solid front axles are the Wrangler and MB G class. The same is true for light duty pickup trucks — they went to IFS a long time ago. Solid front axles are good off-road, but they suck on the road.
There is a reason that the only SUVs in the US with solid front axles are the Wrangler and MB G class. The same is true for light duty pickup trucks — they went to IFS a long time ago. Solid front axles are good off-road, but they suck on the road.
Admittedly, I haven't ridden in a modern 70, so I can't compare the ride to a 4R. My only experience is in old 70s in Africa, and we were off pavement. I have driven my fathers solid axle F250 at high speed on highway and all around town. The ride, even without a lot of weight in the truck, is surprisingly smooth for a heavy duty work truck. My good friend has a stock Rubicon unlimited, and it also has a surprisingly comfortable on-road ride considering the SFA. I went on a trip with this friend and he insisted we rent an unlimited for our trip from S. Utah to the North Rim. Ride quality and road manners were good, although the 4R is a bit smoother, but surprisingly not that much IMO.
Apparently you have not spent much time in an 80 Series. Superb off road and quite good on the hiway.
Drive an 80 and a 200 down a potholes road and get back to me.
So for you the 80 sucks on the hiway?
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
