Bottom line is it doesn't mean s*** what you modify a vehicle to perform. The ONLY thing that matters (from a legal standpoint, and frankly that is all that matters) is what the manufacturer states it is capable of handling.
Can I tow 9000lbs with an FJ80 with a 350? (1 Viewer)
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I doubt that lifts and oversize tires are mods that lead to an increase in towing capacity.
I think most of the limitation of a vehicle's towing capacity is its capacity to stop the trailer. If the trailer has a proper braking system then you're limited by your patience with acceleration, within reason. A very heavy trailer is going to adversely affect your ability to turn, and may 'wag the dog' as they say. Lift height is also going to affect your ability to turn safely, for similar reasons, both situations possibly leading to extreme oversteer and the back end coming around.
To illustrate an analogy...consider the firearms world. Legacy pistols such as the Browning Hi Power include a feature that prevents the pistol from firing if the magazine is removed. This feature creates a crappy trigger release and generally detracts from the pistol's ability to be a reliable defense weapon.
God help you as a civilian if you use a Hi Power that has had this "safety feature" defeated to defend yourself in a life threatening situation.
You will go to jail for using a weapon that has been "made dangerous".
God help you as a civilian if you use a Hi Power that has had this "safety feature" defeated to defend yourself in a life threatening situation.
You will go to jail for using a weapon that has been "made dangerous".
I get so much better fuel economy with my 80 on my flat deck trailer whilst being towed with my '03 2500HD Duramax. Also have a spare 1FZ and transmission in the box of the truck. I could feel the weight of the added drivetrain
I said "tires and lift" referring to "off road capability" not towing. My point was that with anything automotive, people have been modifying to change capabilities since cars were invented.
I think the discussion has been exhausted so no reason to continue. Dan still has the best point, cant modify the sticker on the side, or can you...
Thanks again for all the input, happy Thanksgiving all!
Overseas fzj80 was rated for 7000lbs towing, now i have towed 7k+ with my 80 with ome heavy and e load rated tires, not recomended.. as was stated before brakes and wheelbase. The fzj80/fj80 doesnt have the braking, is narrow and the wheelbase is too short.
Opinions are going to be different depending on where you live, in the midwest and texas where it is flat and the roads are straight they tow heavy without issue as long as the trailer has good brakes and load distribution. Out west were I am and on the east coast with mountains and curves doing that would get you killed real quick.
Pickup a beater 3/4 ton truck for towing, v10 fords are cheep reliable and tow great.. Regular cab trucks go cheep enough in 2wd.. my personal favorite a 3/4 ton subrurban, my current favorite tow rig is my 2009 3/4 ton suburban with a 6.0 and a 6 speed 6l90, and I have a 4500 gmc with a cummins swap... anything under about 12k lbs the suburban is great and comfortable... just upgrade the factory hitch(its a pos)
Opinions are going to be different depending on where you live, in the midwest and texas where it is flat and the roads are straight they tow heavy without issue as long as the trailer has good brakes and load distribution. Out west were I am and on the east coast with mountains and curves doing that would get you killed real quick.
Pickup a beater 3/4 ton truck for towing, v10 fords are cheep reliable and tow great.. Regular cab trucks go cheep enough in 2wd.. my personal favorite a 3/4 ton subrurban, my current favorite tow rig is my 2009 3/4 ton suburban with a 6.0 and a 6 speed 6l90, and I have a 4500 gmc with a cummins swap... anything under about 12k lbs the suburban is great and comfortable... just upgrade the factory hitch(its a pos)
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You’re asserting that it would be negligent, but there probably isn’t a state law that makes it negligence per se, so the original question becomes valid since there are similar gross vehicle weight trucks with higher tow ratings than the 80.
If one were to swap in such a drivetrain, and upgrade the suspension and brakes, it arguably isn’t negligent to increase the tow capacity. Let’s take the Dodge Durango as an example: it has a base curb weight of up to 5,300 lbs in AWD form with two engine options. The larger engine increases tow capacity by 1,000 lbs and even the 3.6L V6 is rated for 6,200 lbs.
Negligence is a failure of “duty of care” - what the OEM recommends as a rating isn’t law and the 80 certainly has components that exceed the typical mid-size SUV standard, particularly its rear axle.
Another good reference point would be the 200 series Land Cruiser, which has a tow rating of 8,100 lbs. If one were to upgrade brakes and add air bags, and swap in a V8, what about an 80 series would make it less capable of towing than a 200 series at the level where the owner would be exposed to legal liability for negligence?
Hell, you could get a 7K tow rating in a 4th gen 4Runner with the 2UZ V8 with a load distribution hitch. There is example after example of OEM ratings where increased engine power correlates directly to increased towing capacity. It isn’t negligence per se as you postulate, but quite the opposite as increased engine size translates directly to increased tow capacity on the same platform as a standard OEM practice.
Now going to 9-10K is a different thing, but I think the “anything north of 5K” arguments don’t really hold up to far lesser platforms like a 4th gen 4Runner having a ton higher rating than the 80. That’s nothing but engine and a willingness for manufacturers to use tow capacity as a marketing tool, which again suggests the difficulty in prosecuting negligence purely on the basis of modernizing an older platform to achieve current market practice tow ratings.
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So I looked at the sticker on the door and it doesn't actually say a tow rating, but it does state the gross vehicle weight rating which is 6470 I believe. I know they're has to be quite a few on here exceeding that so it is the same principal.
I realize I should have started a new thread or found one closer to my plans. 9k is way more than I plan to do and I've modded more than the engine so it might have misled some people with responses.
I realize I should have started a new thread or found one closer to my plans. 9k is way more than I plan to do and I've modded more than the engine so it might have misled some people with responses.
LINUS
Waiting for the Great Pumpkin
^^^^ I just went to the Toyota website & did the compare in the Tundras (easy grab), footnote #29 besides the tow capacities specs states:
'Do not exceed weight ratings.....'
Then a quick rating check from old Mud, despite a quick Google of 5K even:
Towing Capacity of FJ80
Ultimately we all do what we do, but if I was a WASP (WA State Patrol, not the yuppy) - I'd simply roll you onto the scale they keep in the back of the Ford Explorers & write the ticket.
And I'm normally very tepid about DOT budgeted LEO depts.
It's lawyers who buy the weight ratings, laywers who will get you out from or sidestep a full enforcement of penalties. So really if you overload the legal (has nothing to do with physical) -limit, the lawyer wins.
Easier to follow a rule than think for yourself.
'Do not exceed weight ratings.....'
Then a quick rating check from old Mud, despite a quick Google of 5K even:
Towing Capacity of FJ80
Ultimately we all do what we do, but if I was a WASP (WA State Patrol, not the yuppy) - I'd simply roll you onto the scale they keep in the back of the Ford Explorers & write the ticket.
And I'm normally very tepid about DOT budgeted LEO depts.
It's lawyers who buy the weight ratings, laywers who will get you out from or sidestep a full enforcement of penalties. So really if you overload the legal (has nothing to do with physical) -limit, the lawyer wins.
Easier to follow a rule than think for yourself.
That's what Im talking about. Towing over the limit is frowned upon even when prepped, but overloading just the rig is okay, just get heavier springs or air bags and it's all good.
If it doesn't look overloaded you'll be fine with the LEO's. Now don't do it. The owners manual will have a GCW (gross combine weight) which is the vehicle plus the trailer. That is what you have to abide by. That is set by the factory brakes, suspension, power output, rear axle, rear ratio, wheel base, frame strength ect.
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In the spirit of discussion
To recap briefly, for the US market Toyota's published maximum towing capacity is 5,000 lbs. As a student of our litigious society I assert that it would be ill-advised to exceed that unless you are absolutely certain that you are NEVER going to experience an equipment failure or motor vehicle incident of any kind while towing a load exceeding that number.
It is sad but true that we live in a world loaded with people actively seeking deep pockets to pick.......
In Europe all 3 of my HDJ 80's are rated to tow 3500 kg = 7716 lbs. I have towed many times an 80 with and 80 on a professional twin axle, braked car trailer no problem.
Just saying...
Not quite, but does make a big difference.
NCFJ
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The bottom line on all of this is that the 80 series is not a tow rig, just like a Chevy 3500 Dullie 4x4 is not a trail rig. If you only tow on occasion, rent a proper tow rig. If not for your own safety and peace of mind, for those of us out there on the highway with you. I've towed enough with proper tow rigs with proper trailer brakes to have been in emergency situations and the first thing you pray for is more room to stop. Luck has been in my favor and I have avoided trouble.
That’s my point - the idea that OEM tow ratings have direct legal ramifications isn’t supported by how the OEMs rate the vehicles themselves and certainly not by state statute.
The police can’t simply pull you over, quote Toyota, weigh your trailer, and cite a statute that doesn’t exist. “Negligence per se” is a legal concept that overcomes negligence’s duty of care reasonableness standard because violating a safety statute is considered unreasonable in and of itself. But tow capacity isn’t a safety statute, so you are dealing with straight negligence and therefore what is “reasonable”.
Since the 80 has higher capacity ratings overseas, a 2003 2UZ 4Runner rates to 7K, a 200 series Land Cruiser rates to 8,100, and on and on, some increase over 5K isn’t automatically unreasonable with some upgrades (or even without). That doesn’t make the 80 a great tow rig, but 5K is clearly based on the engine and not the underlying vehicle.
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@Nay
The same argument your using to exceed the OEM town rating could be equally used against if said truck is lifted and on larger tires. It’s pretty hard to upgrade our brakes to any degree to match the added stress of larger tires let alone greatly exceeding tow rating.
A trailer with its own brakes changes things some. But I don’t ever want to be having this arguement in court if something went wrong.
I tow all the time with my 80. Generally well within the OEM recommendations but have exceeded it on a couple occasions. What I’ve hated the most s not the lack of power or brakes but wheelbase. The 80 Just is not a good tow truck IMO for more than a small camper.
The same argument your using to exceed the OEM town rating could be equally used against if said truck is lifted and on larger tires. It’s pretty hard to upgrade our brakes to any degree to match the added stress of larger tires let alone greatly exceeding tow rating.
A trailer with its own brakes changes things some. But I don’t ever want to be having this arguement in court if something went wrong.
I tow all the time with my 80. Generally well within the OEM recommendations but have exceeded it on a couple occasions. What I’ve hated the most s not the lack of power or brakes but wheelbase. The 80 Just is not a good tow truck IMO for more than a small camper.
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Yes, same argument for lifts. Although Colorado courts found it unconstitutional to limit lift height in Colorado when the legislature tried (these limits exist in many states).
So we have good case law in Colorado to protect us here with regards to lifts - other states you could be violating a safety statute and face the near strict liability standard of negligence per se. That’s why these blanket legal liability statements are poor guidance. It depends entirely on the statutes and case law in your state.
And is unlikely to have much to do with OEM door stickers. Tow ratings ostensibly have no value based on tow vehicle brakes. It’s all engine and gross vehicle weight. Using 1.5x that Toyota is fine with for a V8 4th gen 4Runner, an 80 series Land Cruiser is easily at 8K just like a 200 series. Just needs the motor.
Which is of course why the 200 has its high capacity rating.
