The 2H/12H-T/1HZ/1HD-T/1HD-FT Gturbo Alternative Tech Thread (8 Viewers)

[vwluv10338]

The intercooler and pipes are on their way. I have no idea when I will get the time to mess with them and I still need to do my intake mods. I have an extra intake manifold and a 3" pipe here that I need to cut and weld together. I have a 3rd gen Supra turbo downpipe on order. I am going to use that to make a downpipe. I figured it was cheap enough and gave me a CT26 flange welded to 3" pipe, a 3" flex pipe, various length of stainless 3". I'm thinking now of just dropping it off with the downpipe at a local custom exhaust shop and have them do it to save me a day of tinkering. Semi-single dad life has killed my project time.

 

[loucaojr]

Hi,

Regarding AFR readings... Is it possible to have a correct reading at the end of the exhaust pipe? Like using a temporary solution for tuning purposes. I know that the usual position of the O2 sensor is at the exhaust manifold / downpipe but could it be done this way in a car that doesn't have one? like our 1HD-T..

Cheers

 

[IanB]

Hi,

Regarding AFR readings... Is it possible to have a correct reading at the end of the exhaust pipe? Like using a temporary solution for tuning purposes. I know that the usual position of the O2 sensor is at the exhaust manifold / downpipe but could it be done this way in a car that doesn't have one? like our 1HD-T..

Cheers

Because there is no cat convertor in these old diesel exhaust systems, yes. It's not the preferred location, generally you'd only see this done on a dyno, and at low revs you may get funky readings due to surrounding air swirling around the tailpipe opening.

 

[loucaojr]

Thanks!

 

[Mcreight911]

To be honest its great to have that torque when I push my foot but its a bit lazier than I expected (no worse than the CT26) but there are reasons for this that will be rectified soon.
I have discovered that I have an exhaust manifold leak beneath #6 and also out of the section where the two manifold pieces join. I have new gasket, seals, studs and nuts ready to go so I will fix that soon. I'm also convinced that I have a boost leak some where so I will have a go at finding and fixing that also.
Like I mentioned earlier, I had some help fitting the turbo as I wanted some more custom work done to allow the hot side intercooler pipework to fit and allow 4" pipe into the 90 bend onto the turbo. This meant I had to cut the compressor housing discharge pipe off and weld an alloy 90 onto the housing as well as requiring custom, custom hard lines to the turbo as the regular position that the water lines run are in the way. 4" pipe with bends take up a lot of real estate!
So anyway the bloke I had helping me is a bit of a petrol turbo guru and on inspecting the turbo we noticed that the waste gate had zero preload and there was no thread left on the actuator shaft to add some. So we pulled the actuator off to cut some new thread and then Aaron notices a large restriction in the turbine housing right at the wast gate port. We thought that didn't look right, so we ported it out to allow nice flow through the port. BIG MISTAKE! After talking to Luke and mentioning what we did there he basically said that's why its not as responsive as it should be.
Even though this was no fault of his, Luke is going to send me an entire new turbo to bolt on and send the one I have back to him to rebuild and sell again. You don't get better service than that!

For some detail on current performance though, I am only running a rough tune right now and it will achieve 15psi by 1900rpm (same as what the CT26 would do) and will be over 25psi by 2200rpm and at 32psi by 2250rpm.
I'm told that with all my issues resolved and the turbine housing and waste gate the way it was designed I should be seeing 25+psi by 1800rpm. I'm smiling right now but I'm looking forward to that type of response also.

Oops . Yeah diesel and petrol have quite different requirements . Gate tension in regard to response and emp management is critical and needs to be set in relation to flow requirements. Turbine, turbine housing and gate size all change this .

Good aftersales service from MMP, got to be happy with that

 

[diby 2000]

Oops . Yeah diesel and petrol have quite different requirements . Gate tension in regard to response and emp management is critical and needs to be set in relation to flow requirements. Turbine, turbine housing and gate size all change this .

Good aftersales service from MMP, got to be happy with that

Honestly I could not be happier with the service from @MMPTurbos both pre and post purchase. Some mistakes have been made by both sides of my story, but Luke seems to just want happy customers and seems to want to go the extra length to ensure I am happy with the result.
It's always better to never need any service for a product, but it's great to know that if you do, It is there.

 

[Mcreight911]

@diby 2000 I think you'll get a plesent surprise with the gate set correctly and non modified turbine . Egt should be better too

 

[diby 2000]

@diby 2000 I think you'll get a plesent surprise with the gate set correctly and non modified turbine . Egt should be better too

I have a feeling your right there.
I still have a bit of work ahead of me to find and fix all the air leaks to really see the performance of this turbo I think.

I hope to have found and fixed the boost leaks before the replacement turbo arrives and I will replace the exhaust manifold gaskets at the same time as I swap the new turbo on.
After speaking to Luke, he recommended I space the waste gate actuator off the seat to gain better performance from what I have before the replacement goes on. I have spaced it 5-6mm at this stage. This allows a heap more preload and limits the actuator arm travel (and so gate operation) to only 1.5-2mm. This has helped spool and kept the boost level higher right through the higher rpm range.

It would be really good to have all these leaks fixed and see how this turbo performs, then swap just the turbo and see how much of a difference just the turbine housing makes.
I just don't know if I have the time to do this or even if the extra effort is warranted to appease my curios nature, when for the same effort I could have the better one on and be working on getting the tune sorted to make it work to its best.

 

[vwluv10338]

Luke mentioned to me to shorten the wastegate rod for a max opening of 3-4 mm vs the 5-7 it was set at stock. Any idea if I can do this on the truck? Should I also add a shim like you are doing? any word on the updated oil drain fittings?

 

[diby 2000]

Luke mentioned to me to shorten the wastegate rod for a max opening of 3-4 mm vs the 5-7 it was set at stock. Any idea if I can do this on the truck? Should I also add a shim like you are doing? any word on the updated oil drain fittings?

I don't think you could shorten the rod while it is on the truck. You can remove just the actuator though.
It would be best to shorten the rod and cut some more thread on it but I struggled to cut thread as its a stainless steel shaft and I've not had great success in the past cutting thread on stainless rod with a die nut.
The spacer was the next best idea I thought.

I have not heard either way on the new oil drains. I have mine sorted now and am happy with it.

You can see a stock oil drain, then it old stock oil drain with the pipe cut off. Next is a Garret oil drain with my oil drain pipe welded on. This was our version 1 oil drain but this one leaked as the mounting flange must have been warped and the ultra blue silicon did not take up the gap for too long. This warping was ever so slight, but it did leak so we went with the supplied o-ring drain with the alloy pipe welded to it as you see on the right.

 

[remy]

No you would be thought to be a fool and wonder shy it's on gumtree in the first place. Did someone drop $2800 on a new turbo and decide they didn't need it? It does appear however by the photos to be out of the box from Japan with grease proof paper seals over inlets etc. it would warrant some hard questions and nerves of steel. Worth investigating though.



I agree on the cost side, but hear me out. No question Graeme's turbos are Mickey Mouse. He's the man. However they make a lot of boost which needs a lot of fuel and makes a lot if power. What if I don't need that much power?

My wagon owes me a not so small fortune, I've got other go-fast projects to fill that void, and my 1HD-T is approaching 400k. Just dropped $4k on injectors and pump after spending similar recently on previous injection work only for the job to be completely cocked up the first time. I want ia milder alternative with OEM reliability. If the FTE delivers safe and efficient boost at 14psi all day and is significantly better than stock I am a happy man! Price is not the issue, it is what comes after. Do I want to fry a brand new NPC clutch? No. Spit new CVs? Not really. I would LOVE a GTurbo on a project car, but this one ain't it. Yes they are good value for money; but add a dyno tune, big intercooler and perhaps another clutch and you are looking at more. Plus would you send back a totally serviceable CT26 for $300 off the price? I wouldn't.

If you look at what Graeme gets out of a stock FTE turbo at 16psi and a tune, you will see its bloody close to a grunter on the 1HD-T. After all it's a 7M wheel with a way better hot side!

It is definately not an 7m wheel. But you will get better spool from a fte turbo. Even the grunter cant keep up until 15psi

 

[serenity]

I haven't kept up with this thread in recent times but I thought I would give an update on my setup.

I have a 7m supra turbo on my 1hz with a mamba 11 full blade wheel and a mamba adjustable wastegate actuator.

I've never been happy with the actuator, it is difficult to set and innacurate. However the turbo itself is performing well since winding the fuel screw right in. Easily holds 100kph on the highway and will get up to 140 fairly well. I'm currently running around 7-8lb boost while cruising at 100kph and it will hit 15-16lb at WOT. My EGT is safe at the moment but there a very few hills around here to concern it. All in all I'm happy with the setup, I just need to sort out the actuator and install an intercooler as I'm sure EGTs will get up if driven somewhere hilly.

 

[vwluv10338]

Been talking to an Aussie on Facebook who seemed to be working with this company to make turbos. Another alternative.

 

[Rob1983]

View attachment 1509635 Been talking to an Aussie on Facebook who seemed to be working with this company to make turbos. Another alternative.

That would be me

 

[vwluv10338]

That would be me

The Internet is a small amazing place. The fact that we can message for free in real time to the other side of the world is taken for granted. Also funny that I followed your build here and yet sent you a random message on FB.

 

[gerg]

I'm interested to see how the ceramic ball bearings hold up to dirty IDI engine oil. Never really seen a BB Garrett on an IDI before.

 

[vwluv10338]

Pulled my MMP turbo off last night. I am putting the stock one back on for my 4 day off road festival next weekend. I was supposed to be spending this time installing sliders so hopefully I can get it all done. Luke thought my boost problems were still related to the wastegate opening too far. 4mm vs 2mm and that I should adjust the rod. With it off last night I was able to test it. I had initially asked for the 18 psi spring in the wastegate. When I got it and installed it on stock fuel it would boost 18psi if I pushed it on the highway. Once I tuned it I could get it to push 22. The problem was the boost built slowly after 10-15psi and I was always fighting high EGTs (no intercooler). Luke said my turbo efficiency was 18-26psi.
I applied 15psi to the gate, no movement. 18 psi, no movement. 20 psi, no movement. 25 psi, it starts to open. Anything over 25 and it just opens wider. To me that seems fine and it should have been boosting much more and earlier. Obviously the turbo has a problem since I am getting it replaced so I figure there is too much internal resistance and it was taking too much fuel to spin up those boost numbers, hence my high EGTs.

@diby 2000

 

[diby 2000]

I'm glad to hear that you made it home ok.

I think swapping the old turbo back on is a good move for the off road festival. It would be a load off my mind to know the fuse to that time bomb has been quenched. I hope you get time to install the sliders also.

I have not tested my wastegate for pressure like you describe, and I'm not really sure how they are rated as such. I think I got a 14lb spring in mine. I think there is more too it than just the pressure in the actuator though. To maintain 18psi at the compressor housing there is not only the pressure inside the actuator trying to open the gate but pressure on the gate itself (exhaust manifold pressure) due to the exhaust gasses trying to get to the low pressure side of the turbine housing. I have recently installed my EMP gauge to my MMP setup and I am typically reading about 3psi higher EMP than what the compressor is supplying up to about 25psi where the difference starts to increase. So to maintain 18psi at the compressor, the gate will have 21psi acting in the surface area of the gate itself plus the pressure in the actuator acting in the same direction.

Honestly I think more gate spring pressure (or preload) is a good thing as it will fight the EMP pushing the gate open early. As long as it still opens enough to properly regulate the boost pressure where you want it, and prevent the assembly from over-speeding, It can only be a good thing.

As you know I have my gate actuator rod travel limited to about 2mm at full stroke (>60psi applied to the actuator). This is still allowing the boost on my turbo to still be regulated at 33psi. The rest of the actuator travel is now preload. I think you have the same exhaust housing as I do so While you have the turbo off, I would be adjusting your actuator to something similar. Especially if Luke has recommended it.

 

[vwluv10338]

@diby 2000

Well I guess you are correct about there being other forces working on the wastegate. I was able to install my old stock turbo. Before I did I installed a manual bleed valve on the wastegate. Since I didn't have the correct tubing lying around to be able to mount it in a convenient spot I wanted to set it before I installed it. I applied site pressure to the wastegate and wanted to adjust it so it opened at 15 psi. I figured there would be pressure trying to push the wastegate open earlier than that so I set it to closer to 13psi. When I drove the truck it pretty much still boosts 10psi. Since that was not at all what I was expecting then my MMP experiment doesn't help me.

Edit: I tested the wastegate again realizing that it doesn't take much movement for the gate to work. The manufacturer website says there is supposed to be 2mm of preload. As opposed to increasing the pressure slowly I was setting the pressure and applying to the gate quickly and the preload seemed ok and nothing moved till between 18-20 and then 22-25 the gate would just get to the point that it was just loose enough to spin. I think it's a decent way to set the gate but the first time I did it I was looking for too much movement.


As far as the old turbo goes. I installed it and left my fuel settings the same. It's boosting 10 psi as opposed to 20 like the MMP but my EGTs are a few hundred degrees lower. I don't think I ever really was able to turn my fuel up much because my EGTs would go too high well before I hit my smoke limit. I think the excessive resistance in the turbo was meaning I had to add more fuel to get it to boost. Sliders are done and I need to install the other side this morning. Intercooler is mounted but I ran out of time to get my buddy to TIG my manifold together and to plumb it.

 

[Mcreight911]

The gate should be set so that it allows sufficient boost building but not limited so that emp v's boost (drive pressure ratio is to high the closers to one to one the better . Drive pressure ratio aim for below 1.6:1 but it really depends on where power starts to drop off as the turbine runs in choke flow . If it's not fuelled correctly, volume and timing then it won't maintain boost and as u limit gate movement it will increase backpressure and egt.
If u can confirm drive pressure ratio is ok but egt is still high then something is wrong . It should outperform the standard turbo