The 2H/12H-T/1HZ/1HD-T/1HD-FT Gturbo Alternative Tech Thread (3 Viewers)

[mudgudgeon]

So calculations I had previously for those two housings (various sources, but unconfirmed).

17010 is 8cm nozzle. Some approximations on tip clearance gave me 0.57 inch A/R
17020 is 6cm nozzle. Some approximations on tip clearance gave me 0.49 inch A/R

These are essentially confirmed accurate now with Mudgudgeons numbers and photos.

But the A/R is only part of it. When you throw in turbine size to the mix the 17020 turbine is 25% smaller flow wise (17010 is 33% bigger). Which is why it's a far more active turbo that produces more boost sooner.

I'll qualify my measurements by saying I'm a rank amateur. May not have it quite spot on, but should be close.

@Dougal, is tip clearance the difference between OD on the turbine wheel vs ID of the turbine housing?
The 1HD-FTE turbine measured right on 58.5mm, all the specs I can find put it at 59.8mm. I'm pretty sure the ID on the housing was 60mm, which leaves fRk all clearance if a turbine was actually 59.8mm

One thing I wondered about in calculating AR is the distance the nozzle opening is away from the turbine. It was quite different between the two. The 1hdfte was a flatter tangent, but the nozzle opening was further from turbine tip.
the 1hdt nozzle has a much steeper tangent angle, and the nozzle opening was closer to the tips of the turbine
Is that distance significant in calculating AR? Or am I over thinking it? I'm sure the tangent angle plays a part

 

[Dougal]

One thing I wondered about in calculating AR is the distance the nozzle opening is away from the turbine.

This is the clearance I mentioned. Between the nozzle edge and turbine wheel OD. It sounds like the two started life as the same sort of casting which is where the difference in clearance comes from.

If we use the same radius for both housings then the A/R of the FTE housing becomes even smaller. More like 0.42 inches A/R.

 

[R buell]

Hi
have been lurking for a bit.
A few points. change 1HDt CT26 for a mumba 16g. Big mistake. Boost come on later than the old CT26 and you really have to floor it to get it over 18psi.
When you change gear at about 2200rpm you are out of the boost range and there is little power. I see about 3-5 psi max at 1800 where my old CT26 was at 10. Sorry but should have done this 6 months ago and saved someone the hastle.
So back online looking for an option.....
Bingo-- VTN for landcruise 4.2. In the uk model they fitted a garrett TG23v to the 100 series to make it emissions compliant. I think i may go for it.
Garrett 724483 Turbocharger GT23V
Toyota Landcruiser Turbocharger 4.2 Diesel 150 Kw 204 BHP 2003 Garrett 724483 T GT23V Turbo Engine 1HD-FTE Euro3

Let me know what you think....

 

[gerg]

Did you pressure check for boost leaks? I seem to remember other folks having better results.

 

[mudgudgeon]

@R buell Sounds like something is definitely not right.

The 16g turbine is quite a bit smaller than a 1HD-T turbine, and slightly smaller than a 1HD-FTE, and its a better design than both. It should boost at a lower RPM.
The compressor is larger, so even if you were seeing the same boost pressure, you will be getting a greater volume of air.

Do you have a link to the mamba turbo you used? They have different sized exhaust housings, not all are ideal for low end performance.


What engine do you have?
What has been done to tune it?
Auto or manual trans?
What other mods have you done? Exhaust? Intercooler? Gauges?
What EGTs are you seeing?


How does vane control work on the Garrett you've linked?
It won't be a bolt in replacement. Exhaust housing is different.

 

[Wildnlost]

Hi
have been lurking for a bit.
A few points. change 1HDt CT26 for a mumba 16g. Big mistake. Boost come on later than the old CT26 and you really have to floor it to get it over 18psi.
When you change gear at about 2200rpm you are out of the boost range and there is little power. I see about 3-5 psi max at 1800 where my old CT26 was at 10. Sorry but should have done this 6 months ago and saved someone the hastle.
So back online looking for an option.....
Bingo-- VTN for landcruise 4.2. In the uk model they fitted a garrett TG23v to the 100 series to make it emissions compliant. I think i may go for it.
Garrett 724483 Turbocharger GT23V
Toyota Landcruiser Turbocharger 4.2 Diesel 150 Kw 204 BHP 2003 Garrett 724483 T GT23V Turbo Engine 1HD-FTE Euro3

Let me know what you think....

I am running a MAMBA td05-18G and am reasonably satisfyied. I am currently running 24 lbsboost. AFR about 26:1 wide open will dip to 16:1 from idle when snapped to WOT. In my situation the driveability is close to the stock CT26 with more boost.
I did have some setup issues if you saw my previous posts. Weak waste gate springs, incorrect linkage, alignment of waste gate, the exhaust housing was not clocked or tightened, etc.
If I was buying again I would get the td05-16G like yours to have an earlier spool. I start to spool quicly at 1700 10 psi. By 2200rpm 24 psi. puff of black to start if throttled quick from idle. 24psi to 3500rpm. If I pinch off the waste gate actuator hose I can get 30 psi. I will post a vid of a run tomorrow.

 

[David60series]

@mudgudgeon I'm interested in this FTE approach. Got a few queries:

- if I procured a complete FTE turbo, would the only mod to fit to 1HD-T be machine ct26 1HD-T compressor housing to suit?

- any idea if FTEs from ute/Troopy vs intercooled HDJ100 wagon have different wastegate settings or if the entire assembly has a different part number?

- for a low boosting set up (say 14psi) would it be worth the effort to go to the 7M wheel over a stock FTE compressor wheel?

I REALLY like the idea of a stock turbo that's much improved on the earlier 1HD-T wheel sizes.

 

[mudgudgeon]

@mudgudgeon I'm interested in this FTE approach. Got a few queries:

- if I procured a complete FTE turbo, would the only mod to fit to 1HD-T be machine ct26 1HD-T compressor housing to suit?

- any idea if FTEs from ute/Troopy vs intercooled HDJ100 wagon have different wastegate settings or if the entire assembly has a different part number?

- for a low boosting set up (say 14psi) would it be worth the effort to go to the 7M wheel over a stock FTE compressor wheel?

I REALLY like the idea of a stock turbo that's much improved on the earlier 1HD-T wheel sizes.

Hi David

The FTE turbo is almost bolt in.

Exhaust housing flanges are the same.
Turbine housing and turbine wheel are smaller (physically and A/R) than 1HD-T

Compressor wheel and housing are the same size as 7MGTE.

I swapped the compressor housing from my HD-FTE turbo for a compressor housing from a 77MGTE turbo.
Two reasons, I already had one from a previous hybrid project, and it's easier to fit up intake hoses.

The 1HD-FTE compressor housing has bolt on flanges for the inlet and outlet hoses.
If you were going to use 1HD-FTE intercooler to and could get all hoses, it might be easier to keep the stock compressor housing.
Swapping to a 7MGTE housing meant I had to do some minor fabrication to get a kinugawa waste gate to fit.

The 1HD-FTE turbo is very similar in size to the TD05 16g turbos (not identical) but older turbine and compressor technology.

To be honest, I'm yet to put it through its paces, fired it up for the first time yesterday since fitting it.
I'm hopefully it will be a good thing. After 5 minutes driving (with no tuning done), I think it's definitely going to boost a lot earlier than a stock 1HD-T turbo

 

[mudgudgeon]

One thing to note, the 1HD-FTE CHRA is physically smaller than the CT26. The exhaust housing flange on the CHRA is also a different size

Exhaust housings aren't interchangeable, but the compressor housing was interchangeable for a 77MGTE housing, no problems

 

[mudgudgeon]

@mudgudgeon I'm interested in this FTE approach.

What part of the world are you in?

There's got to be stacks of 1HD-FTE turbos sitting in sheds in Australia from guys who have upgraded to gturbo or others.
I picked mine up for around $300 AUD, low mileage, turned up in a gturbo box lol. I've got the gturbo box, even if I'll never have the turbo

I put a WTB ad on lcool, had a response the following day, with more responses in short amount of time.

 

[David60series]

I'm in Brisbane, Qld.

 

[David60series]

There is a brand new FTE turbo on gum tree. $1850. It's genuine. If I swapped compressor covers that would give Genuine turbo without any rebuild cost.

 

[mudgudgeon]

You need a 7MGTE compressor cover. 1HD-T compressor cover won't work with the 1HD-FTE compressor wheel

 

[IanB]

There is a brand new FTE turbo on gum tree. $1850. It's genuine. If I swapped compressor covers that would give Genuine turbo without any rebuild cost.

For $1850 plus swapping the compressor cover, you'd have a turbo that's better than stock, but nowhere close to as good as a Gturbo for only a small amount more, and the Gturbo has a warranty. That's an easy decision IMO.

 

[mudgudgeon]

For $1850 plus swapping the compressor cover, you'd have a turbo that's better than stock, but nowhere close to as good as a Gturbo for only a small amount more, and the Gturbo has a warranty. That's an easy decision IMO.

I'd agree with this.

For me the 1HD-FTE option is a low budget, good value alternative. It'll give a respectable result for my application, but you get what you pay for.

I'll do my full install for around $2-2.5k including turbo, boost compensator, exhaust, intercooler, all hoses etc.

 

[Dougal]

You'd never pay that money for a part off Gumtree.

 

[David60series]

You'd never pay that money for a part off Gumtree.

No you would be thought to be a fool and wonder shy it's on gumtree in the first place. Did someone drop $2800 on a new turbo and decide they didn't need it? It does appear however by the photos to be out of the box from Japan with grease proof paper seals over inlets etc. it would warrant some hard questions and nerves of steel. Worth investigating though.

For $1850 plus swapping the compressor cover, you'd have a turbo that's better than stock, but nowhere close to as good as a Gturbo for only a small amount more, and the Gturbo has a warranty. That's an easy decision IMO.

I agree on the cost side, but hear me out. No question Graeme's turbos are Mickey Mouse. He's the man. However they make a lot of boost which needs a lot of fuel and makes a lot if power. What if I don't need that much power?

My wagon owes me a not so small fortune, I've got other go-fast projects to fill that void, and my 1HD-T is approaching 400k. Just dropped $4k on injectors and pump after spending similar recently on previous injection work only for the job to be completely cocked up the first time. I want ia milder alternative with OEM reliability. If the FTE delivers safe and efficient boost at 14psi all day and is significantly better than stock I am a happy man! Price is not the issue, it is what comes after. Do I want to fry a brand new NPC clutch? No. Spit new CVs? Not really. I would LOVE a GTurbo on a project car, but this one ain't it. Yes they are good value for money; but add a dyno tune, big intercooler and perhaps another clutch and you are looking at more. Plus would you send back a totally serviceable CT26 for $300 off the price? I wouldn't.

If you look at what Graeme gets out of a stock FTE turbo at 16psi and a tune, you will see its bloody close to a grunter on the 1HD-T. After all it's a 7M wheel with a way better hot side!

 

[David60series]

You need a 7MGTE compressor cover. 1HD-T compressor cover won't work with the 1HD-FTE compressor wheel

Are there any advantages of the 7M cover over machining a 1HD-T cover? Does the 7M cover have the correct inlet/outlet for 1HD-T?

 

[diby 2000]

I want ia milder alternative with OEM reliability. If the FTE delivers safe and efficient boost at 14psi all day and is significantly better than stock I am a happy man! Price is not the issue, it is what comes after. Do I want to fry a brand new NPC clutch? No. Spit new CVs? Not really. I would LOVE a GTurbo on a project car, but this one ain't it. Yes they are good value for money; but add a dyno tune, big intercooler and perhaps another clutch and you are looking at more. Plus would you send back a totally serviceable CT26 for $300 off the price? I wouldn't.

If you look at what Graeme gets out of a stock FTE turbo at 16psi and a tune, you will see its bloody close to a grunter on the 1HD-T. After all it's a 7M wheel with a way better hot side!

If this is your goal I would say it would be worth your time and effort to talk to a turbo builder and possibly just hi-flowing your stock turbo to suit your goals.
That or do as @mudgudgeon has done and get a second hand FTE CT20b and make it work (even send it for a rebuild for cheaper than the gumtree option with less risk).

 

[mudgudgeon]

I want a milder alternative with OEM reliability. If the FTE delivers safe and efficient boost at 14psi all day and is significantly better than stock I am a happy man!

This was ultimately what decided it for me.

OEM proven reliability.
A respectable upgrade from stock. (Maybe not in the same ball park as gturbo, but it's peaking over the side fence).
It will boost sooner, push significantly more air than stock, which should result in stronger low end torque to keep @gerg 's inner toddler happy
It's as near as bolt in as it gets.
Safe at 14psi all day, every day. I'd comfortably push it to 18 psi with an intercooler.
Your stock pump will deliver more than enough fuel to optimise performance.
$$$ was a bonus. The low cost of mamba, kinugawa or unnamed Chinese junk means second hand genuine units are close to worthless, if you can find someone who bothers to sell it.

I have a 1HD-T/7MGTE hybrid sitting in the shed. I looked for genuine used 1HD-T and 7MGTE turbos for ages do I could build up a hybrid. They don't seem to come up for sale because clones or cheap "4000hp upgrades" are cheaper than rebuilding.

1HD-FTE stock output is a pretty decent step up from what the 1HD-FT put out. I think a decent chunk of that gain would be from improvement to the turbo design.