OMG, California Smog issues!! Help (1 Viewer)

[mcrty23]

Here is the pisser, I have had the cruiser for 2 years now running fine, no codes. I smell gas every day, after about 7 days, and laying on the motor, standing on my head on the motor, finally located the fuel leak, the infamous fuel pulsating damper!

So, I replace it, and the fuel pressure regulator because I had a new one for just in case it went bad, I have 235,000+ miles, on my '88 3FE. I was getting no codes when the fuel damper was spewing fuel. I fix it, replace the FPR, and mention to the wife I have to smog the truck for the registration, yeah California.
The very next day on the way to the smog check the check engine light comes on!!! What tha.....?

Check the codes and get 25, 26, 71. I'm scratching my head how can it be running to rich and to lean?
For code 71, I research it on this forum, clean the EGR air temp sensor (California only model) thx again CA!! Cleaning the sensor didn't help, still getting the 71.

So, I'm still getting all three codes!! The motor runs fine, seems to get around 14mpg, and accelerates like most 2FE's faster then an old VW diesel pick up but slower then a VW bug. Motor starts right up, has no missing, tho the idle once warm seems to be a little rough, but it does have 232,000 miles, and most likely needs a valve adjustment.

My problem is all of the parts are $$$, and thanks to Toyota we get two O2 sensors $110 ea, two cats at $220 ea in CA or $90 ea 49 States, and one EGR Temp sensor $115 in CA, none for the other 49 States.

So, I want to get the right one causing the problems. I would like to know what part usually gives code 25 and 26 at the same time? I can check the voltage on the O2 sensors to see if they are bad and will do this weekend.

I'm just looking for best things to check first to help save time under the hood! I only get Saturday and Sunday to work on vehicles, smog is over due, and have to put vintage air A/C in the wife's car '69 Datsun 510 with KA24DE, no SMOG on her car!!

So would love to here from whom ever has some good smog and code debugging skills. Thx

 

[snowakii]

You didn't happen to disturb any vacuum lines when you were back there changing the damper? Checking those are free. Does n't explain the egr part but rich and lean at the same time could be due to poor air metering.

 

[mcrty23]

I will check the vacuum lines back there, I checked the ones in front, and replaced the line to the FPR. I will put the ohmmeter to work testing sensors, etc, this weekend. I m sure the O2 and cats are original.

I'm just frustrated because I have dropped some serious money in to the power train the passed few months. I was trying to make the thing last until I could do a motor swap and tossing the original Toyota power train out. After spending the the money on the trans, transfer case, and new exhaust from the cat back, I saw a 4X Burb with a fresh top end 6.5 Banks turbo for sale about $500 more then I spent on my Cruiser. So, I'm stuck with what I have for now, one of these days, I'm gonna have my Diesel Cruiser.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Anyone else have some ideas?

 

[snowakii]

For what it's worth, I rebuilt my 3FE @ 256K. Pretty sure the cats and O2 are original. The 3FE was going strong when I rebuilt it. The torque converter was lock-up clutch was shot and I didn't want to pull things more than once. So I bit theb ullet and put in a new tranny and rebuilt the engine and T-case.

Anyway. You had no codes before the fuel repairs, so why suspect the cats and O2 now? The cheap money is looking for collateral damage caused during the repair.

The PCV is also near where you were. The hose and rubber gromet on those are usually pretty hard and brittle. Another way cheaper fix if it is affecting the vaccum.

Now at 266K I passed smog (also in cal) at an inspection only station. Sure the engine is fresh, but the cats and O2 are still doing there job.

In the end you may have had a coincidental cat, O2, EGR, fuel pressure damper, and FPR failure. Um.., but really? All going bad at once?

Good luck! I'd offer to help (about 20 miles from you) but I cant this weekend

 

[mcrty23]

Thanks, Snowakii, I will do some diagnostics this weekend to see if I locate the problem. If I don't get it solved, maybe I could run it by your place or you can certainly drop by mine to help me out. It would be nice to meet up with a fellow Cruiser fan.

I'm an OK backyard mechanic, but two heads are better then one. I don't do transmission either, paid $1200 to have my trans, transfer case, and torque converter rebuild. So far they seem to be fine. I'm ok with the current power of the 3FE, but was looking to do the diesel motor conversion for the pros of more power, a small mileage increase, and NO SMOG!

While Cal is requiring smog checks on Diesel engines now for 1999 and new if truck is under 14,000 gross, 1998 and older are exempt. So, to be on the safe side motor swap needs to be 1998 or older motor. You can get your Cruiser registration switched from gas to diesel but may run in to some difficulties doing so. If you get sent to the smog referee, your smog regiments would fall with what year motor you are int stalling same with a gas swap. It is my understanding you can put in a 5.8 VORTEC but would need all of the smog equipment with that year motor, IE. cat, egr, sensors etc

 

[ntsqd]

If you do a swap of any sort you have to match the emissions configuration of the donor vehicle, and being that KA considers FJ60's to be "Light Duty" vehicles any 3/4t power plant option is not going to be legal. There are only two 1/2t diesel options that I know of worth considering, the 6.2L K5 Blazers and the 6.5L Tahoes. Some might say that those aren't worth considering either.

There is a significant difference between doing an OBD II ('96 & newer) swap vs. doing a pre OBD II (OBD I and earlier) swap.

If you don't know if the vacuum hoses have been replaced, now might be an excellent time to do that. Check the FAQ's etc. as I think that there several threads on that topic.

 

[mcrty23]

Ok, update, as I have spent time today trying to diagnose the problems. I have located the code 71 issue but don't know what I need to fix it. Well, I sort of know what I need.

I did some checking on the air injection system. I'm not getting the air circulated through the system. The smog pump is working, but the Air Switching Valve (ASV) is not switching the air. I removed the vacuum line at the green arrow going to VSV 3 (vacuum switching valve), so I could apply vacuum to the ASV, revved the engine, applied the vacuum to the ASV, and it worked, the air came out the correct hose going to the injection.

So, VSV 3 is not suppling vacuum to the ASV. At first it seemed simple, replace the VSV 3, but I'm not sure how to replace the VSV 3 or if that is the faulty VSV for sure. I'm not sure if the other two VSV's work with VSV 3. In the photo I marked the two hoses going in to VSV 3. I get vacuum to the hose at the red arrow, but I don't get vacuum out the hose at the green arrow. So, simple right? just replace VSV 3, but does VSV 1 and VSV 2 have some relation to VSV 3 and therefore VSV 3 is not getting vacuum because of one of them? I traced the vacuum lines to VSV 3, one goes to the air cleaner, one goes to the ASV, and one goes to the BVSV located on the intake manifold.

The Haynes Manual that I'm using only shows one VSV and one BVSV, but I have 3 VSV's and 2 BVSV's, one BVSV is on the intake manifold and a second is located on the thermostat housing. I don't have a vacuum advanced distributor so the BVSV on the thermostat must be working on of the other VSV's or in series with the other BVSV.

When the motor is at operating temp, I get vacuum to VSV 3, but VSV 3 is not letting the vacuum go to the ASV. If I'm reading correctly when the motor is cold no vacuum goes to VSV 3, once warm vacuum is supplied to VSV 3. I can't seem to disconnect the two wire connector going in to VSV 3. In the photo the blue connector plugs to VSV 2 and the yellow connector has two wires going to VSV 1 and two wires going to VSV 3. If I remove the connectors, I could remove the mounting plate for the VSV's.

Do I have to replace all 3 VSV's as one unit? To replace them independently, I would need to remove the connector going to VSV, but it seem the two wire connection is permanent or maybe I haven't figured out the correct way to remove the connector. If some one could help me out here it would be great!

Emission Sticker under hood below

Sorry the pics are so small, but photobucket resizes the pics to 340x260 automatically.

 

[mcrty23]

Ok, I need some HELP!!! I'm running out of time! I haven't got many responses to my plea for HELP. I'm guessing most of ya think there are plenty of thread on the forum and I can get the answers I need by reading. So, I have read a lot of threads on smog but most are for F60's carb models, and I have a F62 3FE motor. While they both have Air Injections they go about regulating it in a different ways. So, fewer F62's fewer F62 threads, and less help.

What I have checked on the motor:

EGR valve is good
ASV is good
Smog pump is good
I replaced the EGR temp sensor ( California Model), I replaced it because I wasn't getting the correct ohm readings from the old sensor. In hind sight, I may have not needed to replace it, wasted $110. after reading tons, the air injections system is not working to circulate the air giving me incorrect ohms.

What I have found:
I'm not getting vacuum to the ASV, therefore no air is going to the air injection manifold. I have vacuum to the VSV the operates the ASV, but not out. So, either the VSV is bad or not getting signaled to operate.

If I have researched and read correctly, the Air injection system not working correctly will cause the codes that I'm getting, code 25, 26 and 71.

I have several questions:

If i by pass the VSV for the ASV, supply vacuum all the time to the ASV, will it harm the CAT or O2 sensors or other expensive components?

If I can engage the ASV to supply air to the air injection manifold, will that help me pass smog? Provided I can hide the vacuum line going straight to the ASV and not to the VSV. The guy at the smog station is not the sharpest, he didn't know how to check the timing, he just may not see the by pass.

How do I check to see if the VSV is good?
I get vacuum to it but not out of it, not switching when it should. I think I'm getting power to it because the power is supplied to the EGR's VSV and the ASV's VSV is through the same connector. (The yellow connector in the motor pic).

I'm a backyard mechanic, and weak when it comes to electronics. I know basics, but giving me an idiot proof explanation step by step way to test the VSV and make sure I'm getting power to it, IE. Put a jumper wire on the blue wire or yellow/red wire going to the VSV and touch ground, etc.

From what I have read if the VSV is not getting the correct signal to switch it is usually the ground on the ECU or the ECU is bad itself. The VSV do go bad but a lower percentage.

So, if you can spare a little time and help me out it would be greatly appreciated!

Footnote: Man, this smog stuff uses so many acronyms, the last time I used so many, I was working with the Navy Gage and Standards Department on a military contract!

 

[2mbb]

Most VSV's are just valves that open when 12V is applied. You blow through one nipple and see if air comes out the other. you test them by applying 12V to the valve to see if it opens. The FJ60 has two different types of VSV's associated with the AI system. I'm not sure about the FJ62, but one of these procedures should work.

 

[mcrty23]

Most VSV's are just valves that open when 12V is applied. You blow through one nipple and see if air comes out the other. you test them by applying 12V to the valve to see if it opens. The FJ60 has two different types of VSV's associated with the AI system. I'm not sure about the FJ62, but one of these procedures should work.

Thanks for the help!!

Ok the VSV is good! I grounded the VSV and it switched the ASV and air goes out the hose to the Air injection manifold.

So, why am I not getting the signal to actuate the VSV, it is getting the power and shorting it to ground it works. I'm hoping its not the ECU, but I think the ECU supplies the ground for the VSV.

Is the ECU the only link to operating the VSV for the ASV? or are there any other components to check that may tell the ECU to switch the VSV?

 

[mcrty23]

Ok latest update, just in case anyone is reading this to see if I can do it all by myself!

I removed the driver side kick panel looking for wiring shorts, etc., The previous owner had a mouse nesting in the warm comfortable insulation of the side panel. I also located and after market alarm system. I cleaned up all of the mouse nest, removed the alarm, and reseated the plugs on the ECU.

I did notice two wires from the ECU, a blue/white and a white wire, both were connected to fusible link wire, each had its own fusible link wire, then taped up. The splice looked like it was done well.

Was this done by the factory?

I'm getting the VSV working now. When the motor decelerates the ASV is activated and air goes to the injection manifold as it from the instruction in the manual for testing the ASV.

I'm guessing I some how got a better ground to the computer. I did remove the positive terminal from the battery doing all of my work with the wires. This may have reset the ECU for now and its just a matter of time before things go wrong again, only time will tell. I will go for a smog retest tomorrow.

Mean time if anyone knows if the fusible link looking wire was factory or if it was added by previous owner for some reason. I think the blue/white wire is the ground wire for the ECU.

 

[2mbb]

I don't think the fusible link is stock. What makes you think it is a fusible link and not just a repair? Can you take a picture of it?

from a design perspective, the fusible links are close to the battery and protect high load wires. protection of minor components is usually done by using fuses, and therefore I would think that if toyota wanted to protect these circuits they would have routed them through the fuse box.

 

[mcrty23]

I don't think the fusible link is stock. What makes you think it is a fusible link and not just a repair? Can you take a picture of it?

from a design perspective, the fusible links are close to the battery and protect high load wires. protection of minor components is usually done by using fuses, and therefore I would think that if toyota wanted to protect these circuits they would have routed them through the fuse box.

Thanks for helping me out!! Ask you you shall receive, here is a picture of the wires at the ECU.
Ok i pointed to the heavier gage brown wires, suspected fusible link wire with yellow arrows. I couldn't get a good shot of the blue/white wire before it meets up with the brown wire, but the light blue arrow is pointing to a similar gage wire as the blue/white wire. The green arrow is pointing to the white wire just before it meets up with the heavier brown wire. Both wires have electrical tape on them individually.

If this is a patch job the splice was done pretty good, the wire seems to go in to the larger brown wire and I can't even see any soldering. It sure looks better then any splice I have preformed, but as I stated earlier, I'm a novice when it comes to electrical!!

If I have to trace the harness for the other end of the original matching wire, I'm going to have to take off a lot of tape on the wiring harness.

Do you have any idea where the other end of the blue/white wire might be? Is the blue/white wire ground for the ECU or does the blue/white wire go to some where else?

 

[mcrty23]

Ok, so I'm trying to read the Chassis electrical schematic in the manual, I have a Haynes manual, not a high dollar Toyota FSM.

no legend on the abbreviations for wire colors, most are common since, but I'm gonna ask a stupid question. I have assumed "L" equals the color blue, is this the correct letter abbreviation on the schematic for a blue wire?

Looking at the schematic, the only white wire going to the ECU is from the No. 2 oxygen sensor.
I see two blue/white wires going to the ECU, one from the No. 1 oxygen sensors and one from the EGR's VSV.

If the heavier gage wires are splices, it would be interesting to know why the PO did this to possibly the two O2's or an O2 and EGR's VSV wires.

I guess another day tracing wires and checking the ohm readings from the O2 sensors and seeing if the EGR valve is working at the correct time. I know the EGR valve is good.

Man this smog trouble shooting is enough to make a guy go Postal!!

 

[mcrty23]

Update, for all three of the guys who have been kinda and helpful enough to be interested in helping out a fellow Cruiser.

I was getting code 71, 25, and 26. I replaced the EGR temp sensor, I have a '88 F62 California model, I get the special sensor the rest of the 49 States don't have, ain't I lucky, I replaced the air filter, these are the only things I did to the motor.

I was not getting the Air injection working correctly because of the EGR temp sensor. So, that little sensor can effect a bunch of stuff with regards to smog and emissions.

I don't have any codes now, and I took it to get it smog checked again. This time the young guy is there who couldn't figure out how to check the ignition timing so he failed me on the timing, I let him have it for failing me for something he didn't know if it was in specification or not. Along with him was another old guy, not there my first go round, he was Mr.EPA. He started in on what did you do, who did the work, did you get a shop to do a diagnostics, etc. I told him, I did the diagnostics got the codes and replaced the EGR temp sensor that is only on the California model. He looked at me real cocky, what did you do for the NOX, if you only did the sensor you are wasting my time, you are gonna fail.

I was able to throw all the stuff at him I had read learned from reading on the forum, all the fancy acronyms, like , the EGR temp sensor tells the ECU to tell the VSV for the EGR and the VSV for the ASV to regulate the AI, and effects the performance of the CAT and the NOX emission. He was like oh well you maybe on the right track with replacing the sensor, let's give it a try.

I PASSED!!!!

No two O2 sensors ($180), no California CAT's ($220 ea=$440+labor).

So, for any future forum members who research CODE 71, and CODE 25, CODE 26, and you got all three at the same time, replace your EGR temp sensor!

I got mine for NAPA Part#2-29378 list price $190.65, AAA member or good guy discount $106.99+tax total for me was $116.35.

Note: most stores will not show they have the part for the F62, I had them cross ref the Toyota part number, the guy stated it was '90 to '92 Landcruiser.

Now, I just have to go fix the shimmy and shake I get at around 65-70 mph! I had the trans and transfer case rebuilt recently and I think the guy put the drive lines in out of Phase, from what I gather from the forum. I always mark my drive lines and yokes when I remove mine, I thinking he didn't, but that is another thread if I can't get it worked out.

Thanks IH8MUD for the forum and special thanks to the 3 guys who helped by giving me some of their valuable time to read and post on my thread.

 

[snowakii]

Congrats!! Sorry I wasn't around to follow up with you. But you made it. Glad you were able to avoid the extra expense of more new parts.

Steve

 

[mcrty23]

Congrats!! Sorry I wasn't around to follow up with you. But you made it. Glad you were able to avoid the extra expense of more new parts.

Steve

I appreciated the offer to come over to help if I didn't get it solved, at least I felt I had back up! Ya, saved lots of $, so now I can put A/C in the wife's daily driver.

 

[ntsqd]

I'm guessing that you know or know of my friend "OKfine"......

 

[mcrty23]

I'm guessing that you know or know of my friend "OKfine"......

LOL, You know your cars. Yes I do, meet him at a few of the car meets. I have seen a few nice Landcruisers at JCCS, (Japanese Classic Car Show) along with the circuit of 510 buddies. JCCS will be at the Queen Mary this year, I'll be there, might put in the F62!