On fj60 PS conversion - do you need a draglink? (1 Viewer)

[NikP]

So what's the real purpose of the draglink? I'm getting ready to install a 60 power steering box on my fj40 and I'm questioning do I need a draglink or can I just use a standard tie rod end to attached to the pitman arm? I've seen both ways and want to know if there's something I'm missing. I would suspect the draglink may add some front-end play?

I know you'll probably say go SAG ... but I was able to trade for the 60 gear so I'm way ahead in expenses.



Thanks for the help.

 

[Poser]

So what's the real purpose of the draglink? I'm getting ready to install a 60 power steering box on my fj40 and I'm questioning do I need a draglink or can I just use a standard tie rod end to attached to the pitman arm?


I know you'll probably say go SAG ... but I was able to trade for the 60 gear so I'm way ahead in expenses.

What are going to use to connect the pitman arm on whatever steering gear you decide to use, to the tie rod or passenger side steering arm?

 

[NikP]

I currently have a 60 pitman arm and it has the ball joint at the end to attach to the relay rod. But, I got to looking and I could press out the ball joint and just use a tie rod end on the end of the relay rod. (I think it should fit just fine)... In the pictures I posted, one person connected the relay rod to the pitman with a draglink, the other picture showed it with a tie rod type connector. I was just curious if there was some reasoning behind the difference.

Thanks

 

[subzali]

so you're saying is there a reason to not use the REBUILDABLE drag link end vs. using a standard tie rod end? That's a good question I guess I don't know the answer to...

 

[slickrock]

The picture on the right is from my conversion. I have since swapped to a 80 series TRE using a 60 series pitman arm with a conical (sp?) bushing. You can use either one depending on what you have on hand.

 

[bad_religion_au]

Slickrock... any reason your bump stops are spaced so far down :|

my personal preference is to keep it as toyota built it, use the drag link. if something goes pear shaped, it's standard parts, which you have a good chance of finding in stock locally. stuffing about with conical bushings etc only makes it that little bit harder to find parts In my opinion, for no gain that i can see.

 

[Poser]

Slickrock... any reason your bump stops are spaced so far down :|

To hell with the bump stops...look at that brake hose....

 

[bad_religion_au]

i couldn't see past the bump stop in all honesty. but your right. (that reminds me, i need to order a new brake hose, nicked the old one with the grinder the other day).

 

[Rocky_LC]

July/August 2003 TT

The Mark Whatley article in the 2003 Toyota trails describes a plan to use the FJ-40 steering components, by pulling the pittman arm from the FJ-40 Box, cutting it in half / flattening it and flipping the ball 180 Degrees. He recommends having a certified welder do this. The drag link has to be cut and welded to the relay rod (maybe extended?).

This (which he says is his prefered approach) lets him use the FJ-40 drag link and relay rod.

I grabbed the FJ-60 knuckle arms and the FJ-60 tie rod and relay rod from the donor truck, but I suspect the relay rod (being for an FJ-60) will be too long. My plan should work as the truck has already had the knuckles swapped with a minitruck, so I have the large pattern knuckles.

I guess it's a matter of shorteining / rethreading the FJ-60 tie / relay rods, but getting a tap for the tie rod ends might be a challenge. Then you need to buy the flat pittman arm ($115 or so from 2x specialty vendors)....

OBTW: the 60 series parts are supposed to be heavier duty than the 40 series.....

I'm not sure which way I am going yet.....

Rocky

 

[Bret]

60 stuff definately heavier than the 40 stuff. Might consicer using an 80 pitman arm.

 

[bad_religion_au]

The Mark Whatley article in the 2003 Toyota trails describes a plan to use the FJ-40 steering components, by pulling the pittman arm from the FJ-40 Box, cutting it in half / flattening it and flipping the ball 180 Degrees. He recommends having a certified welder do this. The drag link has to be cut and welded to the relay rod (maybe extended?).

This (which he says is his prefered approach) lets him use the FJ-40 drag link and relay rod.

I grabbed the FJ-60 knuckle arms and the FJ-60 tie rod and relay rod from the donor truck, but I suspect the relay rod (being for an FJ-60) will be too long. My plan should work as the truck has already had the knuckles swapped with a minitruck, so I have the large pattern knuckles.

I guess it's a matter of shorteining / rethreading the FJ-60 tie / relay rods, but getting a tap for the tie rod ends might be a challenge. Then you need to buy the flat pittman arm ($115 or so from 2x specialty vendors)....

OBTW: the 60 series parts are supposed to be heavier duty than the 40 series.....

I'm not sure which way I am going yet.....

Rocky

i went the 60 series knuckle arms etc. of course it helps that i'm running 60 series diffs, but i was going that road before the 60 diffs.

tie/relay rods are easy to shorten. just lop about an inch off each end. it's not like there isn't adjustment built into them

i've seen the swap done without the flat pitman arms, just took some carefull box placement.

 

[subzali]

If I were to do it again I would have a custom drag link made (from the pitman arm over to the tie rod). I used the stock FJ60 pitman arm, which cleared the frame and the stock springs just fine (not to bash Mark W, but I didn't feel comfortable with cutting/welding the FJ40 pitman arm and once I had it mocked up I really didn't see a good reason why I would want to make that modification anyway). I am still running FJ40 tie rod and steering arms etc. and if I were to keep that the same next time I would use either a J6 or J7 drag link end (on the pitman arm side, rebuildable), an FJ40 tie rod end on the tie rod side, and a custom tube in between that adapts for the two different thread sizes. It's not that expensive to have that custom tube made.

 

[DanS HJ-45]

If I were to do it again I would have a custom drag link made (from the pitman arm over to the tie rod). I used the stock FJ60 pitman arm, which cleared the frame and the stock springs just fine (not to bash Mark W, but I didn't feel comfortable with cutting/welding the FJ40 pitman arm and once I had it mocked up I really didn't see a good reason why I would want to make that modification anyway). I am still running FJ40 tie rod and steering arms etc. and if I were to keep that the same next time I would use either a J6 or J7 drag link end (on the pitman arm side, rebuildable), an FJ40 tie rod end on the tie rod side, and a custom tube in between that adapts for the two different thread sizes. It's not that expensive to have that custom tube made.

Didn't you use a J7 relay rod (from the pitman arm to the right side tie rod)?

I ended up ordering a custom relay rod, threaded 21mm on both ends, which fits the J6 drag link, and a J4 driver side TRE, as it has the same taper and diameter to mate to the passenger side TRE, but also has a 21mm thread instead of the 17mm thread on the stock 40 series relay rod. Trying to find someone able to make a relay rod with 21mm thread on one end and 17mm on the other was hard, whereas a relay rod with 21mm thread on both ends is only $60 (plus $10 for the jam nuts--mostly because I needed a reverse thread nut).

I'm actually waiting for my custom rod to arrive any day now, but I'll post pics of it (and the whole conversion for that matter) when it gets here. I'm with you Matt: I don't like cutting and welding steering stuff. The straighter and simpler it is--the better.

Dan

 

[slickrock]

To hell with the bump stops...look at that brake hose....

I saw that. It is a trick of the picture. The hose has black paint on it. In the picture it looks kinked, but is is totally round. Just a weird result from a little bit of black spay paint on the hose.

 

[slickrock]

Slickrock... any reason your bump stops are spaced so far down :|

my personal preference is to keep it as toyota built it, use the drag link. if something goes pear shaped, it's standard parts, which you have a good chance of finding in stock locally. stuffing about with conical bushings etc only makes it that little bit harder to find parts In my opinion, for no gain that i can see.

When I had the suspension set up that way (now I am SOA) the stops limited my up travel to stop my tires from hitting the roof of my front fenders. If I didn't move them down, I would have torn the fenders out.

Now that I am SOA, the bump stops are about 5" from the axle. Again, this is about the point when my tires would scrub the fenders.

 

[slickrock]

The Mark Whatley article in the 2003 Toyota trails describes a plan to use the FJ-40 steering components, by pulling the pittman arm from the FJ-40 Box, cutting it in half / flattening it and flipping the ball 180 Degrees. He recommends having a certified welder do this. The drag link has to be cut and welded to the relay rod (maybe extended?).

This (which he says is his prefered approach) lets him use the FJ-40 drag link and relay rod.

I grabbed the FJ-60 knuckle arms and the FJ-60 tie rod and relay rod from the donor truck, but I suspect the relay rod (being for an FJ-60) will be too long. My plan should work as the truck has already had the knuckles swapped with a minitruck, so I have the large pattern knuckles.

I guess it's a matter of shorteining / rethreading the FJ-60 tie / relay rods, but getting a tap for the tie rod ends might be a challenge. Then you need to buy the flat pittman arm ($115 or so from 2x specialty vendors)....

OBTW: the 60 series parts are supposed to be heavier duty than the 40 series.....

I'm not sure which way I am going yet.....

Rocky

In my picture, that is a modified 40 pitman cut, flipped, and rewelded. It worked great. Now that I am SOA with 60 series axles, I am using a 60 series pitman.

 

[subzali]

Didn't you use a J7 relay rod (from the pitman arm to the right side tie rod)?
Dan

I did. J7 drag link end, J7 drag link, FJ40 driver's side TRE at the other end of the drag link. The only thing that needs to be overcome is the fact the the FJ40 driver's side TRE has a shorter stud length than the original drag link end that is intended to fit in the tie rod.

 

[Rocky_LC]

Can anyone provide a quick overview of the J5-J6-J7 code?

TRE sizing?

Thanks

 

[DanS HJ-45]

Can anyone provide a quick overview of the J5-J6-J7 code?

TRE sizing?

Thanks

In this case, it's truck series.

J4=FJ-40, BJ-40, BJ-42, HJ-45, etc...

J6=FJ-60, FJ-62, HJ-61, etc...

J7=BJ-70, FJ-73, BJ-74, etc....

It's just one way of saying "70 series drag link" and whatnot.

The TRE sizes (I'm talking about the thread of the TRE, not the pin coming from the TRE--the one with the cotter pin):

On the 40 series, the tie rod ends (the tie rod runs between the two steering arms) have 21mm threads.

On the 40 series, the relay rod (that runs from the center link to passenger side tie rod end) is 17mm.*

On the 60 and 70 series, the relay rod uses 21mm ends.

The 80 series uses 23mm ends, which is why a lot of custom setups use that stuff--it is beefy!

*--the 40 series tie rod end has the same size and taper pin as the stock 40 series relay rod end, which means that it can mate to the passenger side tie rod end.

The key here is that if you wanted to go 60 series steering, and buy all new rod ends and whatnot, that you could buy:

1. 1x passenger side TRE
2. 2x Driver side TRE
3. 1x 60 series drag link
4. 1x custom relay rod (or use a 70 series relay rod, apparently they are the "correct" side and work just fine--that's what Matt has)

And you would have a completely new setup.

Make any sense?

Dan

 

[Rocky_LC]

Thanks, Dan - Helpful info.

Regards -

Rocky