start up rattle? (1 Viewer)

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semlin

curmudgeon
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Threads
336
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Location
north of 49
Ok, so last week so I drained out my synthetic oil fresh in December with 2500 miles and put in some fresh mobil 1 due to my being unhappy with looking at the big ugly Mopar oil filter my former mechanic installed during that oil change right after I bought the truck (next I am going to changeover the toothed aftermarket belts he installed for oem since they are deafening me). I put in a small OEM 20004 filter. Everything is fine but now I have a slight intermittant start up rattle where previously I had none. It lasts for under a second and almost sounds like the starter is still engaged. Is this the famous start up rattle and, if so, is it normal to get it with the small filter?
 
Simon,

Cold start rattle in a 1FZ is quite common. I have been assured that it is not harmful. As far as why you are just now hearing it I can't say. Some folks think that the smaller filter mitigates the rattle. I have used both those and the original large ones. In both cases I get the rattle. I just sort of ignore it AND listen to it to see if it stays the same. Once I pulled the coil wire and let the engine crank for a few seconds and then plugged it back in and started the engine....No rattle. I think maybe the engine catches too soon sometimes :dunno:

Dan
 
I am using a K&N filter and the duration on the start up rattle seems to be greater than with the small Toyota filter. I am going to try the TRD filter next to see if it is any different.
 
By any chance could it be the timing chain? This happens in toyota truck 4 cyl engines before the oil pressure has built up sufficiently for the tensioner to take up the slack in the worn chain. When the problem is ignored, the t-chain cuts through the coolant lines, and the engine is hosed.
 
Jim,

Nope.

My factory buddies insist that the "rattle" is not harmful. As I have Known these guys for many years I tend to believe them. I'm at 109K 30+k with forced induction. I have 19+ inches of vaccuum at idle and I can't remember the last time I added oil to it. A chain sawing thru the timing cover of a 22R is a whole different animal.......

&nbsp:Dan :beer:
 
With standard large Toyota filter, dealer 10W-30 conventional oil, 40F ambient temperature, and 1900 RPM cold start, my 1FZ-FE engine 'rattled' for a few seconds at startup.

With K&N HP-3001 filter and Castrol GTX High Mileage 10W-30, under same conditions, the cold startup rattle is completely gone.

It's been gone for about a week. We'll see if it stays gone for 5,000 miles, until the next oil change.

Still plan to clean the throttle body to lower the cold start RPMs.
 
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I pulled apart a 1993 1FZ-FE recently and it had a different style chain tensioner. The later ones were strictly oil driven and would relax when the oil pressure dropped.

The one in this engine had a ratchet piston on it. When the oil pressure came on for the first time it would tension the chain. However, when the presure subsided the ratchet mechanism would maintain the tension on the slipper. This would eliminate the chain from becoming loose and needing the oil pressure to properly tension the chain after it was shut off.
 
Interesting about the tensioner, any thoughts on why they changed the design, or which is better, other than the rattle, like could the old style overtighten or put too much strain on the chain at start up??
 
My rig does this also at start for the first second or two that is it.
I do believe it is the timing chain and then the oil presure goes up and tigthens the tensionor as others have mention above.
I have tried several types of oil and it has always made the "rattle" at start, more so in cold weather.
I just pretty much ignore it, well I try to anyway.
I am always listening for odd stuff.
 
Interesting about the tensioner, any thoughts on why they changed the design, or which is better, other than the rattle, like could the old style overtighten or put too much strain on the chain at start up??

I have no idea, it was just in there. I looked on TOYODIY and they do list 2 numbers for that part. But they aren't the best resource for part numbers either.
 
What is actually causing the rattle, the chain itself?
 
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Jim,

Nope.

My factory buddies insist that the "rattle" is not harmful. As I have Known these guys for many years I tend to believe them. I'm at 109K 30+k with forced induction. I have 19+ inches of vaccuum at idle and I can't remember the last time I added oil to it. A chain sawing thru the timing cover of a 22R is a whole different animal.......

&nbsp:Dan :beer:
Dan, my daughter and I spent the last year and a half rebuilding a '94 FZJ80. Ih8mud, and you in particular, have been priceless sources of advice along the way. Today, she started the truck, and I thought to ponder the start-up rattle that sounded a bit different from outside the truck than it normally does when I'm in the driver's seat. I came across this post of yours, and it set my mind at ease.

Then I noticed that you posted this almost exactly 20 years ago, and I think it deserves a special thank you. I suspect you had no idea in 2003 that someone would be so grateful for your contributions 20 years later. Well, I'm that person. Thank you for all you've done for people like me who've lived a better life by rebuilding a truck. In my case, I've done it with an 18-year old girl before she heads off to college -- you've made my life better.

I'm grateful.
 
About 9 years ago I installed the 90 degree filter adapter and still no startup rattle. Something to think about.

 
This is great, was just going to try and get a movie with the sound and post up. Thanks.
 
Despite being assured the start-up rattle causes no harm, I set out to understand what causes it and detemine how to get rid of it. It took a while and I won’t bother you with all the things I tried — especially since the solution is pretty simple (at least in the case of my truck, and it may or may not apply to any other truck). At some point I realized one can change the oil filter on a 1FZE and lose only a little more oil than normal, so I got several filters and started experimenting. I started with a “bigger is better mentality,” and have come to realize that, in the case of a 1FZE, smaller is better. Bottom line, the small OEM filter (90915-YZZD3 ) eliminates the rattle — or, at least, gets it to the “could I hear a rattle?” stage. In all cases, I stayed with Mobil One 10W-30, and my testing was in May and June in the DC area — temperatures in the 60s to 80s. If I’m really on the ball, I’ll post an update when it gets colder.
 
Despite being assured the start-up rattle causes no harm, I set out to understand what causes it and detemine how to get rid of it. It took a while and I won’t bother you with all the things I tried — especially since the solution is pretty simple (at least in the case of my truck, and it may or may not apply to any other truck). At some point I realized one can change the oil filter on a 1FZE and lose only a little more oil than normal, so I got several filters and started experimenting. I started with a “bigger is better mentality,” and have come to realize that, in the case of a 1FZE, smaller is better. Bottom line, the small OEM filter (90915-YZZD3 ) eliminates the rattle — or, at least, gets it to the “could I hear a rattle?” stage. In all cases, I stayed with Mobil One 10W-30, and my testing was in May and June in the DC area — temperatures in the 60s to 80s. If I’m really on the ball, I’ll post an update when it gets colder.
It has been in the high single digits (Fahrenheit) for a few days, and I want to report that the smaller oil filter continues to eliminate essentially all the start-up rattle.
 

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