Just curious on everyone's thoughts of a limited slip in the front of an 80, cheaper than an ARB and price is the main concern of a highschooler.
TrueTrac Limited Slip in the front? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter alkaline747trio
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I had a limited slip in my tundra. It didnt really help. Unless you can lock it in, I wouldnt do it. My limited slip offered 0 help when in mud but on hill climbs it was alright. You have to slip to make it engage so thats where locking comes into play.
Don't do it 
Lock the rear first and wheel it.
Lock the rear first and wheel it.
Grench
SILVER Star
Picture yourself in a situation where you have to turn a corner quickly.
Now picture the front wheels locking 1/2 way through that turn.
Now picture your truck over steering, sliding, through an intersection, into the side of a car full of nuns.
Auto lockers on the front = real bad dream.
Now picture the front wheels locking 1/2 way through that turn.
Now picture your truck over steering, sliding, through an intersection, into the side of a car full of nuns.
Auto lockers on the front = real bad dream.
bjowett
Supporting Vendor
Pick up LSD from an 86 - 91 Supra, cheap, reliable, shim it for a little more bite.
I have one in my 4Runner and am locked in the rear, and I've been very happy with this set up. It definitely helps when crawling. If the front starts to slip it locks up nicely and has pulled me over many obstacles. It's not as smooth as it would be if the front were locked, but I've been able to get the front to engage and lock up on just about every obstacle I've need it to pull me over. One advantage of the TruTrac is you don't have to disengage it if your working in a narrow corridor that require tight steering. With a locker you have to make the decision before hitting the obstacle if you want it locked or whether you want maximum steering articulation.
Ed
Ed
After 'wheeling my mini with no locks and then the 80 with lockers. I say ONLY a selectable up front. There have been times when the front would be locked and slide sideways up climbs, turn it off and it's a little harder but no lateral slide. I would also think even an LSD would be squirly on the street with full time 4wd.
Limited slip is close to useless for four wheeling. It will help keep a sports car from spinning one tire too quickly, but it won't force a blocked tire to spin. It will help a tiny bit, but not worth the money IMO. If you shim it, you'll quickly end up with a spooled diff, which you don't want either. On an 80 front axle, considering the full-time 4wd, I'd go selectable or nothing.
-Spike
-Spike
I disagree. In fact, it's one of the best mods for a locking hub front axle. Trutrac LSD in crawling gives up to 80% locking ability. To get that transfer with one wheel in the air, apply the brakes while accelerating, it acts like electronic limited slip (brake torque + supported traction = total torque to a wheel). During the non wheel lifted 4wheeling, it gives more maneuverability than a locker.
The *problem* I see with Trutrac on a front axle is on road behavior. Normally this mod is done with the addition of locking hubs, hubs unlocked = no trutrac, truck steers normally. With full time AWD, the trutrack will cause additional understeer during on road driving. The 4Runner boys claim it gives some uncomfortable road manners and a lot of unwelcome feedback thru the steering wheel.
For more on this, ck the 4Runner forums, a lot of guys have done it, and explain well how the handling is affected when they forgot to unlock the front hubs.
ST
sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
Come on ST, that is a little bit broad that it is the best mod for a hub front axle (which that 80 is not). Not sure where you wheel, but a limit slip does nothing where we go. In crawling it will be useless, applying the brakes or not. THe 80 is way to heavy in rock crawling situations to compare with a 4ruinner.
Christo, it's physics. With a wheel in the air, a locker can transfer 100% of the torque to the wheel on the ground. With a wheel in the air, a LSD can transfer no torque to the wheel on the ground. However, apply the brakes, the torque supported by the wheel in the air increases. This is exactly how EDL works. Useless? I've been rock wheeling out west in a 4Runner that had a Trutrac front, and he demonstrated this well. It's not useless, by definition it can be up to 80% as effective as a locker in a wheel lift scnario, and more *useful* at all other times.
As I indicated for a awd setup, a front LSD has more drawbacks, because of no ability for disable. On lockouts, the trutrac is inactive by unlocking the hubs. The question really revolves around what is best to install in a front axle with lockouts. For rock crawling ONLY, a locker front has advantages, but only slight if you use the LFB technique on the Limited Slip. For all other wheeling, the trutrac will allow more maneuverability and better handling than a locker.
As I pointed out in my post, the 80 isn't equipped with locking hubs, so minimally, that would need to be an addition. All that said, there are a lot of folks with 4Runners that have done this mod, and it is a recommended mod to boot. I can see why.
YMMV
ST
Useless, dont do it.
If you want cheap and a locker...throw an aussie up front and some Aisin hubs.
But if your not locked in the rear yet by all means do that first. A locker will open a whole new world of wheeling to you. Once you push you rear locker as far as it can take you, throw in a front and be amazed at the scary s*** you can get your self into....ah memories.
If you want cheap and a locker...throw an aussie up front and some Aisin hubs.
But if your not locked in the rear yet by all means do that first. A locker will open a whole new world of wheeling to you. Once you push you rear locker as far as it can take you, throw in a front and be amazed at the scary s*** you can get your self into....ah memories.
sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
1. Just re-read my post again. It is not one of the best mods you can do to a 80 front axle. Period.
I would arrgue that an ARB is the best mod, or a retrofit of a e-locker is the best most, by far. Also if you are talking about a LSD that fits inside the carrier, is a bad mod since the front carrier is weak and will deform under load and cause ring and pinion breakages, ARB or E-lcoker fixes this.
2. You can not just add hubs to a 80 without telling people they need to either then have the center diff lock engaged all the time, or put in a part time case.
3. Do not compare a 4Runner to a 80 in terms of rock crawling. Also do not compare a IFS front end to a solid axle in crawling.
You automatically say you don't agree, that is your right, but man, but please do not mislead people. I don't care that you can theoretically describe with physics why it would work, it does not work in ROCK CRAWLING, and that is what the post was about. It might work 10%, but it is not the best.
I would arrgue that an ARB is the best mod, or a retrofit of a e-locker is the best most, by far. Also if you are talking about a LSD that fits inside the carrier, is a bad mod since the front carrier is weak and will deform under load and cause ring and pinion breakages, ARB or E-lcoker fixes this.
2. You can not just add hubs to a 80 without telling people they need to either then have the center diff lock engaged all the time, or put in a part time case.
3. Do not compare a 4Runner to a 80 in terms of rock crawling. Also do not compare a IFS front end to a solid axle in crawling.
You automatically say you don't agree, that is your right, but man, but please do not mislead people. I don't care that you can theoretically describe with physics why it would work, it does not work in ROCK CRAWLING, and that is what the post was about. It might work 10%, but it is not the best.
exactly LTR...he is open front and rear...lock the rear, you will be amazed.
Just re-read my post again. It is not one of the best mods you can do to a 80 front axle. Period.
I would arrgue that an ARB is the best mod, or a retrofit of a e-locker is the best most, by far. Also if you are talking about a LSD that fits inside the carrier, is a bad mod since the front carrier is weak and will deform under load and cause ring and pinion breakages, ARB or E-lcoker fixes this.
Agree
You can not just add hubs to a 80 without telling people they need to either then have the center diff lock engaged all the time, or put in a part time case.
I disagree. You can add hubs, just have to leave them locked all the time to enable AWD. If you add the suggested LS device, you can indeed use hubs, lock the CDL (alkaline has it factory in his year), but that is not recommended I hear due to t-case wear and tear...however, alkaline has no viscous coupler either...I wonder if that would be viable?
I think the larger issue here is that alkaline has open diffs front and rear (I wheeled with him this weekend). The best advice to him we can offer is to lock the rear with an aussie locker of some sort.
The rear locked will change his world as lowtideride suggests, and that will allow him access to more trails than before and buy time to get a selectable locker for the front, which, to Christo's point, is the best option for the front in all cases.
I would arrgue that an ARB is the best mod, or a retrofit of a e-locker is the best most, by far. Also if you are talking about a LSD that fits inside the carrier, is a bad mod since the front carrier is weak and will deform under load and cause ring and pinion breakages, ARB or E-lcoker fixes this.
Agree
You can not just add hubs to a 80 without telling people they need to either then have the center diff lock engaged all the time, or put in a part time case.
I disagree. You can add hubs, just have to leave them locked all the time to enable AWD. If you add the suggested LS device, you can indeed use hubs, lock the CDL (alkaline has it factory in his year), but that is not recommended I hear due to t-case wear and tear...however, alkaline has no viscous coupler either...I wonder if that would be viable?
I think the larger issue here is that alkaline has open diffs front and rear (I wheeled with him this weekend). The best advice to him we can offer is to lock the rear with an aussie locker of some sort.
The rear locked will change his world as lowtideride suggests, and that will allow him access to more trails than before and buy time to get a selectable locker for the front, which, to Christo's point, is the best option for the front in all cases.
Also, an LSD in general can be dangerous in a front diff (with open rear diff), especially when climbing a hill like "Potato Salad" hill at Moab. You can get sideways and roll. I do not know if this is applicable to an 80 or not. I have seen this happening in a lighter truck.
LSD in my experience only works in the rear with both wheels touching the ground.
Just my $0.02
LSD in my experience only works in the rear with both wheels touching the ground.
Just my $0.02
sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
What does that help? Adding hubs assumes one wants to unlock them to use them. Why else add them?
Read the application. A full time case will work adding lockout hubs Christo, a VC full time case won't, but he doesn't have one of those. He now has the advantage of a part time awd vehicle. Lock in the front hubs, he has a trutrac front. Lock the center diff, he has even more torque available to both front wheels.
Yer kidding right? Comparing a solid front axle 4R to a 80? I'd go for maneuverability. I use the Sumotoy handle, cuz the footprint on the 80 negates a lot of it's offroad advantages. I am thoroughly entertained by the thought and the ride of an 80 chassis up the rocks, it's hardly the best one there.
Christo, the only difference is when a wheel is in the air. In all other scenarios (the other 90% of the time), you speak to a 20% traction advantage. Is it the BEST? That would depend on what you are doing with the truck. I don't consider a locking front the BEST at more than extreme rock crawling.
One of my passion is awd vehicle dynamics Christo. Locking a front axle is easy, and allows 100% torque to be supported by either wheel under slip. A LSD will allow 80% torque to be transfered under slip. Got yer wheels in the air alot, put in a locker. That's the minority, daily driver or offroad daily driver.
The post #1 understands that he's seeking compromise. Put in locking hubs and a trutrac, certainly not a *useless* compromise. My point is, it's a good one with a good following. It will work better than a open front diff, and with locking hubs, won't affect driveabilty at all. I might say this is all BS based on Kunz' post, as he should concentrate on adding a rear locker first, which I agree with absolutely as a first step.
ST
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Of as far as the hubs go...he was asking about adding a locking device to the front...If he threw an aussie in there he can just un-lock them and run around with the CDL on. We do in our 80 with aussies.
Locking it front and rear with aussies is cheap, we run around in our all the time with the CDL on and the front hubs unlocked. The auto handles the locker great as it almost never locks up. So if he did have a locker up front it would not matter because no power is going to the front wheels..
Locking it front and rear with aussies is cheap, we run around in our all the time with the CDL on and the front hubs unlocked. The auto handles the locker great as it almost never locks up. So if he did have a locker up front it would not matter because no power is going to the front wheels..
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I have hubs on my 80...and I used them about 2 weeks ago when I grenaded a birf.
I unlocked, removed the bits, dropped the shaft, and drove home.
there is an application for ya!
I unlocked, removed the bits, dropped the shaft, and drove home.
there is an application for ya!
