Warn 8274 outer brake disc - KICKIN' MY ASS (1 Viewer)

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TheHardWay

Ain't as easy as it looks
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Rebuilding 8274 winch, Shoulda known it was gonna be trouble when the retaining circlip refused to come off without a fight:


Stuck brake cover.JPG


The rust isn't bad, but that circlip was bonded to the brake assembly shaft.

After it was off, I found the outer brake disc was just as stuck to the shaft, and was only able to pound on the end of the shaft till it was even with the disc face :

Outer brake disc.JPG


After applying PB Blaster and heating with a propane torch (no budgee) I borrowed this 2 ton 3 legged gear puller from O'Reillys. Nothin. Bought a can of Kroil, same result, then resorted to more heat with wife's acetylene torch:

Acetylene torch.JPG


Held the flame to the shaft for 5, then 7 minutes. Nothin. Put the shaft assembly in the freezer overnight. Nothin. Tried the flame for 10 minutes on the disc. Still no budgee! I've read over a dozen threads here and watched Youtube videos on breaking the bond between the shaft and disc, and I could use some advice before I take a cutting disc to the mudderforker!

Am now wondering if pounding the shaft with a ball peen after removing the circlip may have distorted the shaft? Am I not heating it long enough? Is the 2 ton puller enough?

Will @flintknapper offer some of his sage advice here?

I'm stuck and I need help!!
 
I would be inclined to drive the brake disc back down a bit. Inspect the end of the shaft to be certain it has not been 'belled' any from hitting on it. If so, use a file to go around the circumference of the shaft and dress it.

Soak liberally with PB blaster let sit overnight. Apply heat but NOT to the shaft. Heat the disc and keep your heat source moving (don't heat one spot too long) so you don't warp the disc. Then try again with the puller. Each time you are able to move the disc up and down on the shaft it 'should' become easier to move.
 
For heating a part to create a temperature delta you need real heat. Oxyacetylene and a rosebud usually does a good job. 5-7 minutes is insane. I would have melted the whole thing into a puddle by then. Crank the torch and hit it hard and fast to create the differential. Like 15-20 seconds.

Steel expands .0000064" per degree F

Get an infrared temp gun. 300 degree difference separates most parts. 400 degree does the rest, but can affect heat treat.

A good way to take things apart is an arbor press. That little puller looks like it's trying to turn the disc into a potato chip.
 
I would be inclined to drive the brake disc back down a bit. Inspect the end of the shaft to be certain it has not been 'belled' any from hitting on it. If so, use a file to go around the circumference of the shaft and dress it.

Soak liberally with PB blaster let sit overnight. Apply heat but NOT to the shaft. Heat the disc and keep your heat source moving (don't heat one spot too long) so you don't warp the disc. Then try again with the puller. Each time you are able to move the disc up and down on the shaft it 'should' become easier to move.
Thanks for the quick response. What I'm thinking is, set the disc on a socket big enough to encircle the shaft, and tap on the other end with the ball peen to move the disc back down. After the overnight soaking, I'll heat the disc for 5... 10 minutes? While still hot. install the puller and - what's the risk of cracking or breaking the disc by tightening the puller too much?
 
For heating a part to create a temperature delta you need real heat. Oxyacetylene and a rosebud usually does a good job. 5-7 minutes is insane. I would have melted the whole thing into a puddle by then. Crank the torch and hit it hard and fast to create the differential. Like 15-20 seconds.

Steel expands .0000064" per degree F

Get an infrared temp gun. 300 degree difference separates most parts. 400 degree does the rest, but can affect heat treat.

A good way to take things apart is an arbor press. That little puller looks like it's trying to turn the disc into a potato chip.
Thanks for responding! So, oxyacetylene eh? Wow, I've got some research to do to get started!
 
Thanks for the quick response. What I'm thinking is, set the disc on a socket big enough to encircle the shaft, and tap on the other end with the ball peen to move the disc back down. After the overnight soaking, I'll heat the disc for 5... 10 minutes? While still hot. install the puller and - what's the risk of cracking or breaking the disc by tightening the puller too much?
^^^^

Its possible. Ideally we would want to support the underside of the disc and press the shaft out, but not everyone has access to the tools to do that.

The disc is fairly thick and has reinforcing 'ribs' cast in but even so using a puller distorts the disc slightly if a lot of pressure is applied. The distortion presents as tension on the under side and compression on the top side which serves to 'pinch' the brake shaft.

With that in mind...we want to try to loosen the bond (rust) as much as possible and then be judicious when using the puller. If it begins to feel as if you've 'hit the wall' STOP!

It will take some time and soaking with penetrating oil. Tap the disc down and pull back up in increments, it will come off eventually. Don't get mad at it and break it. 👍
 
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You probably did this, but once you put the maximum amount of force with the puller, hit the end of the puller rod with a sledge. Don't be afraid to put a cheater on whatever you're tightening the puller with. I know you've already mentioned Kroil, but just for the sake of saying so, I've had more luck with Kroil than any other type of penetrating oil.
 
Wait- so it has moved a little bit then it stopped?

If so the problem is you mushroomed the shaft when you hit it. Fix that first.
 
Thanks guys. Wife's FJ Cruiser was sideswiped in Kohl's parking lot yesterday, so gotta deal with that before I get back to this. IT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING :bang:
 
Sounds like you have a cool wife
Very cool - signed off with me buying 3 FJ40s! Only demand she made was I had to do a hands on inspection and test drive PRIOR to making offers. Even went with me to Las Vegas and Tucson for the second and third rigs. She got the acetylene torch for a silversmith class.
 
BREAKING NEWS...

Thursday afternoon I used a 1" socket to cover the shaft and pounded the disk and it budged:

It budged!.JPG


I had to deal with Wednesday's accident aftermath on Friday (determined what the damage was, priced replacement parts at dealer, reached agreement with Mr. McGoo for payment, ordered the parts), so I dosed the shaft and disc with Kroil that night, then Friday and Saturday night, and today returned to the task, this time with a 1 1/4" socket.

Following @flintknapper advice, I pounded the disc to below the circlip groove, then filed the mushroomed end of the shaft:

Filed.JPG


The disc got stuck in the same place when I used the puller, so I filed it again. Just as he predicted, it moved a little more, then more until (cue the trumpets) BABAM:

Busted loose.JPG

Finally off!.JPG


I'd like to thank @flintknapper , @suzuguru , @PIP, for your great insight and advice, and @TheForger for reminding me what a cool wife I have! :beer:
 
Mine was similar. Thought it would never come off but great job winning that battle!
 
BREAKING NEWS...

Thursday afternoon I used a 1" socket to cover the shaft and pounded the disk and it budged:

View attachment 3283143

I had to deal with Wednesday's accident aftermath on Friday (determined what the damage was, priced replacement parts at dealer, reached agreement with Mr. McGoo for payment, ordered the parts), so I dosed the shaft and disc with Kroil that night, then Friday and Saturday night, and today returned to the task, this time with a 1 1/4" socket.

Following @flintknapper advice, I pounded the disc to below the circlip groove, then filed the mushroomed end of the shaft:

View attachment 3283162

The disc got stuck in the same place when I used the puller, so I filed it again. Just as he predicted, it moved a little more, then more until (cue the trumpets) BABAM:

View attachment 3283165
View attachment 3283167

I'd like to thank @flintknapper , @suzuguru , @PIP, for your great insight and advice, and @TheForger for reminding me what a cool wife I have! :beer:


Great follow up and PICS!

Your patience and perseverance paid off.

Sorry to hear of the accident, those are never fun. Hopefully the rest of your work on the 8274 will go smoother.

Again, good job Sir! 👍
 
And the ball bearings all fled across the shop in a happy frenzy to be free!
 
The hardest thing I ever had to get off with a puller, was the pitman arm on a 60 series steering box.
 
Happy ending

Before:

Winch setup before.JPG


And after:

Finished1.JPG

Finished2.JPG


And a closeup:

Closeup.JPG


Thanks again for helping me get over the hump. MUD MEMBERS ROCK!!
 

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