Information Re: Importing to the USA and Complete DIY How-To (1 Viewer)

[edmond4822]

Hey @edmond4822 , does California require that imported vehicles have the FMVSS compliance certification plate? That seems kinda silly since any car being imported that was originally built for a different market won't have one. Those plates are only affixed to vehicles built explicitly for the US market--there's no reason for a manufacturer to affix the plate or even conform to US FMVSS for a vehicle not intended for sale in the US.

That's the whole point of the 25-year import rule--it grants an exemption from US FMVSS, and thus an exemption from the requirement to have the certification plate.

I mean, California can make any requirements they want, but that would be a complete "game over" for anyone wanting to import a foreign-market car into California. Looks like @Rawloh44 has come up with a good workaround.

Hello @gilmorneau

You are correct about the federal safety plate.. All the cars manufactured for the US market have the plate because they passed the safety requirements. All cars not intended for the US market won't have this plate.

Fortunately most states don't require you to show proof of the federal safety label. They even don't have to see the car for inspection as long as you send the title and the picture of the vin number plate. Every state works different but they are all more easier then registering it in California.

The problem with California DMVs and especially in the big cities here is that they require to see the Federal safety label for safety reasons and also we have the problem of the SMOG inspection. California has its own anal rules.. They don't care about the 25 year import rule..

It's a case of luck for the some buyers in California.

You can go to a DMV and they might not check the Federal safety label and not send you to the highway patrol to determine further if this car is a USA spec car. If the Highway patrol determines that the car is a gray market car then the DMV will refuse to issue a title for it..

Another problem with the Cali sellers doing this and getting a Cali title the funny way is that when the time comes and they sell the car to a Cali buyer, and this buyer goes to a DMV or if the DMV asks for an vin inspection and they see that the car does not have the safety plate then this will cause a big problem to them and they will be forced to register the car in another state..

Some folks in California are driving their out of state plates. I see all kinds of cars here with out of state plates. It's nothing new. All high end cars that don't want to pay Cali sales taxes are getting their plates done out of state.

In my case, I don't deal with this mess in California. I register my trucks in Montana and almost most states don't require what California requires.. Its really not worth all this headache..

 

[edmond4822]

Hey @edmond4822 , does California require that imported vehicles have the FMVSS compliance certification plate? That seems kinda silly since any car being imported that was originally built for a different market won't have one. Those plates are only affixed to vehicles built explicitly for the US market--there's no reason for a manufacturer to affix the plate or even conform to US FMVSS for a vehicle not intended for sale in the US.

That's the whole point of the 25-year import rule--it grants an exemption from US FMVSS, and thus an exemption from the requirement to have the certification plate.

I mean, California can make any requirements they want, but that would be a complete "game over" for anyone wanting to import a foreign-market car into California. Looks like @Rawloh44 has come up with a good workaround.

Hello @gilmorneau

I would like to add one more note.

For California buyers who want to do get California plates and pass emissions the right way and with Government approval to obtain the plates and pass smog for gas engines for cars over 1975 and for diesels trucks before 1998, there is a
company named G&K Automotive. G & K Automotive Services | EPA & CARB Emissions Requirements - http://gnkauto.com/epa-carb-emissions/
They help owners obtain California plates They are expensive and they require 50% down payment for the project and could take up to 3 to 6 months to get everything done.

This is one way to get the title..

I am not 100% positive of the outcome but whoever wants to do it must do research about this company and maybe even visit their facility to see how things work out..

 

[Cjryu92]

Hey y'all,
This is an excellent thread and theres a ton of information. I appreciate the time people have put forward to this. So this is my predicament.
I have a 1993 Landcruiser Prado (KZJ78) and I've been living here in Australia for 4 years, I bought this truck a year ago and plan on bringing it back. But before I leave I will do these modifications:

Chop wagon cab to convert to dual cab, and replace the hood, fenders and headlights to look like the newer VDJ series, but I will keep the same engine.
I know the vehicle has to be unmodified but is this modification okay? I'm going to maintain the original chassis, engine and the body so technically all over 25 years etc etc.

I have pictures on my current config and what I plan on doing.
Any information would be helpful!
Thanks

 

[REDrum]

Chop wagon cab to convert to dual cab, and replace the hood, fenders and headlights to look like the newer VDJ series, but I will keep the same engine.
I know the vehicle has to be unmodified but is this modification okay?

If you do the above you are at risk of these two situations with US CBP:
1) denial of entry due to the degree of alteration from original OEM specification
2) by chopping the back end off and creating a quad cab with a rear bed it may then be looked at/considered a pick up truck and your tariff rate will go from 3% to 25%

Not saying it will happen but, IMO, there is strong risk that it could. More tariff is an easy, but financial painful, fix. However denial of entry under "box #1" (25 year exemption) would be a major hardship and heartbreak.

 

[Rawloh44]

If you do the above you are at risk of these two situations with US CBP:
1) denial of entry due to the degree of alteration from original OEM specification
2) by chopping the back end off and creating a quad cab with a rear bed it may then be looked at/considered a pick up truck and your tariff rate will go from 3% to 25%

Not saying it will happen but, IMO, there is strong risk that it could. More tariff is an easy, but financial painful, fix. However denial of entry under "box #1" (25 year exemption) would be a major hardship and heartbreak.

I agree that the risk is too high, I would recommend to make the modifications once you get it imported.

 

[Cjryu92]

If you do the above you are at risk of these two situations with US CBP:
1) denial of entry due to the degree of alteration from original OEM specification
2) by chopping the back end off and creating a quad cab with a rear bed it may then be looked at/considered a pick up truck and your tariff rate will go from 3% to 25%

Not saying it will happen but, IMO, there is strong risk that it could. More tariff is an easy, but financial painful, fix. However denial of entry under "box #1" (25 year exemption) would be a major hardship and heartbreak.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah I was kinda thinking that would be the case. I don't mind paying the additional 25% because I think it would be worth it, but denial at entry would mean it was all for nothing.

 

[Rawloh44]

Thanks for the reply! Yeah I was kinda thinking that would be the case. I don't mind paying the additional 25% because I think it would be worth it, but denial at entry would mean it was all for nothing.

Keep us updated on how everything goes good luck

 

[gilmorneau]

I know the vehicle has to be unmodified but is this modification okay?

Hard to say. As others have mentioned, it might be a bit risky.

That said, the language specifying that the vehicle must be in "original unmodified condition" is found in EPA form 3520-1, so it could be argued that it applies specifically to emissions equipment, not necessarily the body/frame of the car. DOT form HS-7 (re: safety standards) makes no reference to a vehicle's originality, only its age (over 25 years). But of course, do you really want to be arguing your case with Customs? Probably not.

I would recommend to make the modifications once you get it imported.

As noted above, it's not 100% clear that the modifications you're planning would make the car impossible to import, but just as an FYI--doing the modifications after it's here in the US wouldn't make it any more legal, it would only make it less likely you'd get caught since no one with the Federal government is ever likely to know you've done it.

 

[REDrum]

"....less likely you'd get caught since no one with the Federal government is ever likely to know you've done it"

That is a very risky position to make. Go lurk on the D90/110 forums and read of the headache and heartbreak created because CBP is usinging photos of body, engine and driveline to determine year and "originally" of all Defenders being imported under the 25 year (box 1) exemption, the trucks are pretty much guilty of non eligibility until to proven otherwise.

 

[gilmorneau]

...CBP is using photos of body, engine and driveline to determine year and "originally" of all Defenders being imported...

I'm not sure I was clear: The suggestion was made by @Rawloh44 to make any modifications after the car was already in the US, rather than making them prior to import and risking the car getting caught by CBP.

My point was that if a modification would disqualify a car from importation, that same modification performed once the car is already in the US would still be a violation of the same law(s). The only difference being that if you try to clear it through Customs, you're more likely to draw scrutiny. If you do it once the car is here, it's less likely anyone from the federal government is going to come looking for it.

As said previously in this thread, there's nothing magic about the moment a car passes through Customs that makes that the only time the laws apply.

 

[REDrum]

As said previously in this thread, there's nothing magic about the moment a car passes through Customs that makes that the only time the laws apply.

Agreed! There is a case where a back dated VIN D110 was in a major accident and the insurance underwriter delayed the claim, and medical bills of the people hit, because the truck was fraudulently imported as it was 2009 and not a 1990....

 

[JapanO80s]

This thread was very helpful for me when I finally was registering my 1993 HDJ81 that I owned in Japan before moving back. I wanted to post the link to the Oklahoma State requirements (Chapter 13, 710:60-5-130. Foreign vehicles), just for reference in case anyone here or in the future might be looking for them. Basically it is all the same as above, but was relatively easy to register.

I submitted the following:

• Foreign Title (Shakensho)
• Translation of foreign title (used tranlanguage.com, no mention of certification requirement but it was quick and easy)
• CBP form 7501
• EPA form 3520-1 (make sure you get the newest revision, sort of hard to find)
• DoT NHTSA Form HS-7 (again make sure you get the newest revision)
• And the title documents that you need in OK for any car
• I also included the following for posterity sake
  • Foreign Export Certificate + translation
  • "Bill of Sale" from the exporter (no price since it was mine to begin with but just for reference)

It was really easy to fill out the EPA and NHTSA forms, if you look at page 3 of this thread there are great examples.

After I submitted the forms above to the tag agency, they faxed them over to the central DMV for the final confirmation. I was then able to register it like any normal car.

Thanks again for the post and I hope that this might be useful to someone in the future.

 

[gjenks99]

Extremely helpful thread - the time and effort spent on this was clearly immense and it shows.

I am hoping someone can help me with some more specific questions... I have a friend living/working in the US who is originally from Pakistan - Lahore area. He is looking to import a Land Cruiser (likely to Port of Elizabeth in Newark) - it meets the 25-year requirement and such, but he plans on refurbishing in Pakistan given the cheaper parts/labor. From what I've read on this thread and on the government documents, if he restores it to essentially "original" condition he should be fine (for ex., match the engine to that originally put in the car. Has anyone imported a vehicle from Pakistana and could provide more information on that process - ports, shipping (RORO vs container), companies that operate out of this region, or any such connections? Is there anything in terms of modifications to NOT do or watch out for while he does the work in Pakistan? I've read something about catalytic converters post-1976 and fuel in other countries - is this something he should modify to American standards or is this a non-issue? Should he use an RI? Any costs to look out for (apart from the ones mentioned like shipping, customs, etc.)? Any suggestions, help, insight is greatly appreciated!

-Greg

 

[gilmorneau]

Extremely helpful thread - the time and effort spent on this was clearly immense and it shows.

Thanks. Glad it's appreciated.

if he restores it to essentially "original" condition he should be fine

Yes.

Has anyone imported a vehicle from Pakistan

No, but the process will be the same. From what I can tell, there is a RoRo port in Karachi. Your friend would need to confirm that. A container would offer more security but has higher costs. Up to him. Best bet would be to contact a shipping company that operates out of Karachi, such as Messina Line (don't know if they handle passenger cars, but you gotta start somewhere).

Is there anything in terms of modifications to NOT do or watch out for while he does the work in Pakistan?

The motor and all associated emissions equipment need to be in "original, unmodified condition". Customs doesn't care about paint color, upholstery, or accessories. Just keep it kinda "normal" looking and there shouldn't be any problem.

should he modify it to American standards?

No need. In fact, you don't want to do this. Leave it as it was when it was sold new in Pakistan.

Should he use an RI?

Can if he wants. Might be easier but it will be more expensive and there's no need if the car is over 25 years old. He can do the import process himself using the information in this thread, but making the arrangements in Pakistan would probably require he have an agent of some sort there (or he could travel there himself to to it).

Any costs to look out for

Prices have gone up some since I wrote this thread, so in that sense some of the numbers here might be out of date. Figure for inflation (maybe 20% or something) and you'll be closer to today's reality. Also, Lahore is about as far away from Karachi as it can be and still be in Pakistan, so he's going to need to figure out how to get the car from Lahore to the port and how to pay for that. Other than that, all the costs should be outlined in this thread.

I'd be interested to know how it goes.

 

[gjenks99]

Thanks. Glad it's appreciated.

Yes.

No, but the process will be the same. From what I can tell, there is a RoRo port in Karachi. Your friend would need to confirm that. A container would offer more security but has higher costs. Up to him. Best bet would be to contact a shipping company that operates out of Karachi, such as Messina Line (don't know if they handle passenger cars, but you gotta start somewhere).

The motor and all associated emissions equipment need to be in "original, unmodified condition". Customs doesn't care about paint color, upholstery, or accessories. Just keep it kinda "normal" looking and there shouldn't be any problem.

No need. In fact, you don't want to do this. Leave it as it was when it was sold new in Pakistan.

Can if he wants. Might be easier but it will be more expensive and there's no need if the car is over 25 years old. He can do the import process himself using the information in this thread, but making the arrangements in Pakistan would probably require he have an agent of some sort there (or he could travel there himself to to it).

Prices have gone up some since I wrote this thread, so in that sense some of the numbers here might be out of date. Figure for inflation (maybe 20% or something) and you'll be closer to today's reality. Also, Lahore is about as far away from Karachi as it can be and still be in Pakistan, so he's going to need to figure out how to get the car from Lahore to the port and how to pay for that. Other than that, all the costs should be outlined in this thread.

I'd be interested to know how it goes.

Thank you for responding so quickly! This is extremely helpful. He's talked to some importers before who said this isn't possible (maybe because they just didn't want to do it?), so he'll be excited to hear that the process is pretty standard regardless of the country of export.

From what he's told me, many of the land cruisers in Pakistan are former military vehicles so they have some pretty cool history. He's probably looking at about a year until shipment just given the process and working out the details. Also, he'll probably have to do it all from the US and use his connections in Pakistan - regardless of when your visa expires, if you go home, you have to get it re-stamped to return to the US which is a 6+ month wait time. In the meantime, I'll likely have more questions but will certainly keep updating as the process moves forward.

Cheers,
Greg

 

[Gun Runner 5]

Agreed! There is a case where a back dated VIN D110 was in a major accident and the insurance underwriter delayed the claim, and medical bills of the people hit, because the truck was fraudulently imported as it was 2009 and not a 1990....

Based on the reports I saw it seems that only 1 Defender was actually destroyed by Customs and the rest (after legal proceedings) were actually returned to their owners. No doubt, still an expensive experience for the owners but the reports of wholesale seizures and destruction of the vehicles may have been miss-reported.

 

[gjenks99]

A few follow-up questions from my posts above...

If the car is refurbished in Pakistan and subsequently imported, would the declared value of the vehicle be the purchase price or its purchase price + the cost to refurbish?
If you import a car with intent to sell it, should you go through a registered importer? - I guess what I'm asking is, when should you/shouldn't you use an RI?

Secondly, let's say purchase price + refurbishing costs = $10,000. What would you estimate (ballpark) the total costs of shipping/importing to be? I know it's fairly nuanced so I'm just trying to get an idea. If it is a former military vehicle, but has since been unused for years, is it taxed as an Auto 2.5% or Truck 25%?

Cheers,
Greg

 

[tlaporte]

On the question of when should you use a Registered Importer, it is only necessary when importing a < 25-year old vehicle that has been determined to be substantially similar to one available in the US and able to be modified to meet FMVSS and EPA requirements in place at the time the vehicle was built.

As far as I know, you can not import a < 25-year old vehicle except through an RI.

A > 25-year old vehicle does not require an RI, and using one will likely introduce a great deal of unnecessary costs.

Shipping depends on too many factors to estimate without further information: from where, to where, container or RORO, etc.

 

[gilmorneau]

If the car is refurbished in Pakistan and subsequently imported, would the declared value of the vehicle be the purchase price or its purchase price + the cost to refurbish?

Declared value of the vehicle is usually the purchase price, because in most cases that's an accurate assessment of the car's value, but technically, you're simply declaring what the car is worth, in the condition its in when you import it, irrespective of how much you may or may not have invested in it. What would be a reasonable purchase/selling price for the car as imported? What would it appraise for? What value would you insure it for? It can be pretty subjective, and you may raise some suspicions at Customs if you declare too low a value to be believable, but if you declare a value that's within spitting range of what a similar car would sell for in the US, no one is likely to check your math.

If you import a car with intent to sell it, should you go through a registered importer? - I guess what I'm asking is, when should you/shouldn't you use an RI?

Your intent to sell after import is irrelevant to the question of using a RI or not. As @tlaporte correctly states above, you must use a RI if the car you're importing is under 25 years old and eligible for import. For vehicles over 25 years old, there is no circumstance in which it's mandatory to use a RI AFAIK, but you can use one if you want. You'll pay a bunch more money and it may or may not make the process easier for you. Note that everyone who says they can import a car for you is not necessarily an actual Registered Importer. Most aren't.

Secondly, let's say purchase price + refurbishing costs = $10,000. What would you estimate (ballpark) the total costs of shipping/importing to be?

Purchase price is largely independent of import cost, which is why it makes more sense to import more expensive (i.e. nicer) cars. IIRC you're planning on importing from Pakistan to the US. If that's correct, a wild-ass guess would be in the ballpark of $4-8k for a container, and maybe half that for RoRo if you can find it. Budget for the high end and if it's less, rejoice. Import costs are going to be duty (see below) and a few hundred dollars for a Customs Broker (recommended). Add to that the normal fees at your local DMV when you register it.

If it is a former military vehicle, but has since been unused for years, is it taxed as an Auto 2.5% or Truck 25%?

The history of the vehicle doesn't affect the import duty you'll pay. The only factor that does is whether the vehicle was originally manufactured for the purpose of carrying people, or if it was originally manufactured for the purpose of carrying goods. So, sedans, wagons, etc. with four doors, four or five seats with seat belts, and obviously mainly designed to carry people are taxed at 2.5% upon entry to the US. Pickups, flatbeds, cargo vans, etc. that were mainly designed to carry cargo are supposed to be taxed at 25%.

 

[SeanE]

Hello all,

First post here for a newb. I just won an auction out of Japan on a '92 FJ80 with about 110k miles on it, and this will be my first import. If anyone here is from Pennsylvania and has experience with the process, I'd love to connect. I'm excited for the truck though a bit concerned that I overpaid, especially with how much it costs just to get them over here and on the road. Lived in Japan from '05 to '08 so I'm aware of just how well the Japanese tend to maintain their vehicles, so that is somewhat reassuring.

Anyhow, happy to be here and looking forward to the journey of bringing this old beast over and exploring the world of vintage cruisers. Any other links to threads on making sure it's up to par and US road-ready would be appreciated.