Selectable diff locker debate (aftermarket). (4 Viewers)

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I'm on the verge of re-gearing a recent non-locked 80-series (it's a 97), and also want to install front/rear lockers at the same time. I have brand new/uninstalled ARB's for the front/rear that I got with the purchase, however started reading and watching videos on the pros/cons of ARB vs. Eaton. A friend suggested using a Detroit/Auto locker in the rear and a selectable (ARB/Eaton) in the front, which would be the best of both worlds. This way, you have a robust time tested locker in the rear that has fewer weak points compared to a selectable locker.

My main concern is noises from the rear diff when driving it on the street/highway. For those who do have a Detroit, is it "clunky" at all when driving around town, or this happens only when making tighter turns like a u-turn, as opposed to turning left/right at a stop sign? I'm on 35's and re-gearing to 4.88's.
 
I'm on the verge of re-gearing a recent non-locked 80-series (it's a 97), and also want to install front/rear lockers at the same time. I have brand new/uninstalled ARB's for the front/rear that I got with the purchase, however started reading and watching videos on the pros/cons of ARB vs. Eaton. A friend suggested using a Detroit/Auto locker in the rear and a selectable (ARB/Eaton) in the front, which would be the best of both worlds. This way, you have a robust time tested locker in the rear that has fewer weak points compared to a selectable locker.

My main concern is noises from the rear diff when driving it on the street/highway. For those who do have a Detroit, is it "clunky" at all when driving around town, or this happens only when making tighter turns like a u-turn, as opposed to turning left/right at a stop sign? I'm on 35's and re-gearing to 4.88's.
They are Clunky and no good on Ice or snow !
Just use the ARBs
 
I can speak from experience w/ the Aussie locker in the rear. I regeared mine w/ 4.88s and an Eaton in the front. While the Aussie works well on the trails, it's noisy AF pulling out of the driveway, drive-thru lanes, etc. Does fine over rocks and everything. I haven't had a chance to drive it in ice or snow yet but I'm already planning on replacing it at some point w/ an Eaton in the rear.
 
I'm on the verge of re-gearing a recent non-locked 80-series (it's a 97), and also want to install front/rear lockers at the same time. I have brand new/uninstalled ARB's for the front/rear that I got with the purchase, however started reading and watching videos on the pros/cons of ARB vs. Eaton. A friend suggested using a Detroit/Auto locker in the rear and a selectable (ARB/Eaton) in the front, which would be the best of both worlds. This way, you have a robust time tested locker in the rear that has fewer weak points compared to a selectable locker.

My main concern is noises from the rear diff when driving it on the street/highway. For those who do have a Detroit, is it "clunky" at all when driving around town, or this happens only when making tighter turns like a u-turn, as opposed to turning left/right at a stop sign? I'm on 35's and re-gearing to 4.88's.
ARB’s, as you read on the first page here, are reliable, strong, and time tested. They’ve been around since the 1980’s. I have 14 years with two different vehicles worth of ARB experience and have nothing but positive remarks.

I’ve ran auto lockers in the past, it’s a relic and I wouldn’t think of running one on anything but a trailer queen that’s off road only and that would never see snow and ice. We truly need to be locked only a small percentage of the time when off road and never when on the road. Locked on the road wears tires much faster and induces unfavorable handling characteristics. Yes, the Detroit will unlock to allow differential tire speeds when making turns but only when your foot is lifted from the accel pedal, step on the gas and it will lock up mid turn.
 
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I can speak from experience w/ the Aussie locker in the rear. I regeared mine w/ 4.88s and an Eaton in the front. While the Aussie works well on the trails, it's noisy AF pulling out of the driveway, drive-thru lanes, etc. Does fine over rocks and everything. I haven't had a chance to drive it in ice or snow yet but I'm already planning on replacing it at some point w/ an Eaton in the rear.

Thank you for chiming-in with your set-up, as this is the exact one I was contemplating, with the difference being going with the much more expensive/robust Detroit locker ($900+) as opposed to an Aussie ($300+) locker. I was hoping that with the price and reliability, I would also get decent street manners (not locking up while turning or wasting tires prematurely), as my 80 will be used 95% for road trips with some mild-wild trails 1 or 2 times/year.

ARB’s, as you read on the first page here, are reliable, strong, and time tested. They’ve been around since the 1980’s. I have 14 years with two different vehicles worth of ARB experience and have nothing but positive remarks.

I’ve ran auto lockers in the past, it’s a relic and I wouldn’t think of running one on anything but a trailer queen that’s off road only and that would never see snow and ice. We truly need to be locked only a small percentage of the time when off road and never when on the road. Locked on the road wears tires much faster and induces unfavorable handling characteristics. Yes, the Detroit will unlock to allow differential tire speeds when making turns but only when you foot is lifted from the accel pedal. Step on the gas and it will lock up mid turn.

Was initially set on selling the ARB's in favor of two Eatons, but after reading hours and hours this past few days, this entire thread, and watching multiple videos on the subject, I think for me, the right choice might be the ARB's.

I must say I've had a factory locked truck for the past 5 years and driven @25k miles. Whenever I needed the factory lockers to work (maybe less than a dozen times), they have never let me down.

What's funny is I was thinking maybe the best combo would be an ARB in the rear and get the Eaton up front, as typically when you back-up to realign onto an obstacle, you're usually steering the front tires, and being unlocked momentarily may actually help! What I don't like about the Eaton is that if you're on a steep incline/rock-step, and using the brakes while letting gravity move you back a foot or two while attempting to reposition yourself to "make it" up the obstacle, now you're in an unlocked state in the Eaton, and if you gas it, it's going to shock the locker and the drivetrain when the locker engages. This is what scares me about the Eaton selectable locker. The ARB's are looking more favorable to be used on both axles as long as a good shop installs them, and they're tested before trips to make sure there are no air leaks.
 
You already have them, build it. My diffs are in the shop as we speak getting 4.88 and ARBs front and rear. I could t be more stoked. Plus you get the added benefit of needing a compressor to activate them, so you can build in a nice OBA setup too.
 
Thank you for chiming-in with your set-up, as this is the exact one I was contemplating, with the difference being going with the much more expensive/robust Detroit locker ($900+) as opposed to an Aussie ($300+) locker. I was hoping that with the price and reliability, I would also get decent street manners (not locking up while turning or wasting tires prematurely), as my 80 will be used 95% for road trips with some mild-wild trails 1 or 2 times/year.



Was initially set on selling the ARB's in favor of two Eatons, but after reading hours and hours this past few days, this entire thread, and watching multiple videos on the subject, I think for me, the right choice might be the ARB's.

I must say I've had a factory locked truck for the past 5 years and driven @25k miles. Whenever I needed the factory lockers to work (maybe less than a dozen times), they have never let me down.

What's funny is I was thinking maybe the best combo would be an ARB in the rear and get the Eaton up front, as typically when you back-up to realign onto an obstacle, you're usually steering the front tires, and being unlocked momentarily may actually help! What I don't like about the Eaton is that if you're on a steep incline/rock-step, and using the brakes while letting gravity move you back a foot or two while attempting to reposition yourself to "make it" up the obstacle, now you're in an unlocked state in the Eaton, and if you gas it, it's going to shock the locker and the drivetrain when the locker engages. This is what scares me about the Eaton selectable locker. The ARB's are looking more favorable to be used on both axles as long as a good shop installs them, and they're tested before trips to make sure there are no air leaks.
Your post reads as if you are skeptical of the ARB’s. I’ve experienced air leaks three times. Twice was due to botched installation work done by a shop and the other was due to there being no O-rings on the ends of the ARB compressor tank. The tank leak didn’t manifest until the compressor was something like 5 maybe 6 years old. I was chasing the leak that was causing my compressor to cycle on for a second or two every ten seconds or so. Without need, I replaced the seal housings in both diffs and the bulkhead fittings first.

At that point the compressor was still cycling so I disassembled the compressor with the ARB exploded parts diagram in hand. I was very surprised to find the O-rings missing. A quick trip to Home Depot for a couple O-rings and the system has been trouble free 7 years now. My ARB’s are from 2010 and I can honestly say that the only problem I’ve had was the missing O-rings in the compressor which took some years to actually become a problem.

One great thing about the air locker is that it will still work with an air leak as long as the leak isn’t massive. If you are a wheeler, and it sounds like you are, I believe that you will be glad you went with ARB’s in both diff’s.

Pneumatics have been a trusted form of control muscle in many types of machinery for decades.
 
Your post reads as if you are skeptical of the ARB’s. I’ve experienced air leaks three times. Twice was due to botched installation work done by a shop and the other was due to there being no O-rings on the ends of the ARB compressor tank. The tank leak didn’t manifest until the compressor was something like 5 maybe 6 years old. I was chasing the leak that was causing my compressor to cycle on for a second or two every ten seconds or so. Without need, I replaced the seal housings in both diffs and the bulkhead fittings first.

At that point the compressor was still cycling so I disassembled the compressor with the ARB exploded parts diagram in hand. I was very surprised to find the O-rings missing. A quick trip to Home Depot for a couple O-rings and the system has been trouble free 7 years now. My ARB’s are from 2010 and I can honestly say that the only problem I’ve had was the missing O-rings in the compressor which took some years to actually become a problem.

One great thing about the air locker is that it will still work with an air leak as long as the leak isn’t massive. If you are a wheeler, and it sounds like you are, I believe that you will be glad you went with ARB’s in both diff’s.

Pneumatics have been a trusted form of control muscle in many types of machinery for decades.

I have never had ARB/air lockers, and you are correct... until I started reading this week, my perception all these years was that ARB/air lockers were inferior due to 2 main reasons:

1) Air leaks in the air supply to the locker... compressor, tubing, connections, etc.
2) Failure in the sealing mechanism within the locker itself.

#2 scared me the most about air lockers, as having to tear a diff apart to rebuild is a huge undertaking, both time and cost wise. In all my readings, not one person using ARB lockers has had the internal seal fail. All issues have been due to a poor installation and/or routing of the air supply lines, or in your case a compressor with missing o-rings. This along with the testimonials of the members that praise the instant locking of the diffs using ARB has convinced me to go this route.

I was initially sold on the Eaton due to its "simpler" design and fewer parts, however it's weakness has been brought-up on videos and personal testimonials to the point where I feel it may give the driver a false sense of security thinking the locker is fully engaged, when in fact it isn't. And this could inadvertently cause damage if you "step" on the gas trying to clear whatever your trying to get over.

It does have me thinking though, there are many happy members with the selectable Eatons, and those seem to have been working perfectly as well, so to each their own. I don't have personal experience driving either type as I've only wheeled a factory locked 80. I don't want my decision to sound biased, but I feel all things considered, I'll be happier with the ARB's.

I can't thank this forum enough for all the responses and insight... it is really an invaluable resource!
 
I have never had ARB/air lockers, and you are correct... until I started reading this week, my perception all these years was that ARB/air lockers were inferior due to 2 main reasons:

1) Air leaks in the air supply to the locker... compressor, tubing, connections, etc.
2) Failure in the sealing mechanism within the locker itself.

#2 scared me the most about air lockers, as having to tear a diff apart to rebuild is a huge undertaking, both time and cost wise. In all my readings, not one person using ARB lockers has had the internal seal fail. All issues have been due to a poor installation and/or routing of the air supply lines, or in your case a compressor with missing o-rings. This along with the testimonials of the members that praise the instant locking of the diffs using ARB has convinced me to go this route.

I was initially sold on the Eaton due to its "simpler" design and fewer parts, however it's weakness has been brought-up on videos and personal testimonials to the point where I feel it may give the driver a false sense of security thinking the locker is fully engaged, when in fact it isn't. And this could inadvertently cause damage if you "step" on the gas trying to clear whatever your trying to get over.

It does have me thinking though, there are many happy members with the selectable Eatons, and those seem to have been working perfectly as well, so to each their own. I don't have personal experience driving either type as I've only wheeled a factory locked 80. I don't want my decision to sound biased, but I feel all things considered, I'll be happier with the ARB's.

I can't thank this forum enough for all the responses and insight... it is really an invaluable resource!
ARB says the bonded seal, the one that seals the piston on the inside of the carrier, the one you fear most, can last 20,000 cycles. Recently I stripped teeth from my front ring and pinion. Since I’ll be doing the repairs myself; and the locker is nearly 13 years old, I’ll also be disassembling the locker to do a hard parts inspection and replace the bonded seal just because I’ll be in there and is the reason why I started this thread. This work will be documented in my build thread and perhaps a separate thread dedicated to the air locker dissection alone. It could be a few weeks though.
 
I'm on the verge of re-gearing a recent non-locked 80-series (it's a 97), and also want to install front/rear lockers at the same time. I have brand new/uninstalled ARB's for the front/rear that I got with the purchase, however started reading and watching videos on the pros/cons of ARB vs. Eaton. A friend suggested using a Detroit/Auto locker in the rear and a selectable (ARB/Eaton) in the front, which would be the best of both worlds. This way, you have a robust time tested locker in the rear that has fewer weak points compared to a selectable locker.

My main concern is noises from the rear diff when driving it on the street/highway. For those who do have a Detroit, is it "clunky" at all when driving around town, or this happens only when making tighter turns like a u-turn, as opposed to turning left/right at a stop sign? I'm on 35's and re-gearing to 4.88's.
I have a Grizzly (Yukon's version of a Detroit) in the rear of my 95(open front). Around town you would never know it was there, you do hear a slight clicking noise during tight turns if there is something close enough for the sound to bounce off of (like the wall off a fast food place while you are in the drive thru) but other than that it acts just like a open diff until you go offroad.

Alot of people's opinions of auto lockers were formed while driving in a vehicle with a part time time transfer case. With full time 4WD pretty much all of the bad habits go away. There are three things that make auto locker in the rear suck, part time 4WD(or 2wd), short wheel base and a low vehicle weight, all things the 80 series is not. Truthfully, the US spec 80 series is a great application for a auto locker( I bet a old Wagoneer w/ qudratrac would be as well).

I live in the SoCal mountains and I drive mine in the snow all winter and it never does anything funny in any way, no slipping, no popping and no unintended change in direction, the front axle pulling you along and the center diff make all the difference.

For dedicated off road rig I would go selectable front and rear all day long but for something that you use for more mundane purposes the auto locker will work quite well, ultra reliable, no air or wires to run and no having to unlock to make tight corners.
 
It should be obvious by now, ARB's are tough and rarely give issues and if they do then 99.9% of the time it is down to the installation not only of the locker to the gears and routing the copper pipe correctly through the differential casing, but also routing the air feed pipe up and out of the way of the undergrowth, but still allowing enough slack to allow for axle articulation.

Once the air pipe is away from the axle only then fix it to the chassis but with some slack hidden away, then purchase a couple of quick connect pipe joiners (I drove heavy goods vehicles for awhile), a broken air pipe will leave a big truck stuck in the road, in modern trucks air is used to keep the brakes OFF, with a quick snip of the leaking area the two ends are pushed into the connector and the truck drives off, or in the case of an ARB it will return to full working order.

Go with the ARB's and have someone who has genuine experience installing and even using them and call it done, now you need to spend time deciding if you are going to spend time using OE Toyota dashboard switching gear to activate the lockers, or install the switches supplied by ARB, now that is the real problem! :rofl:

Regards

Dave
 
I'm on the verge of re-gearing a recent non-locked 80-series (it's a 97), and also want to install front/rear lockers at the same time. I have brand new/uninstalled ARB's for the front/rear that I got with the purchase, however started reading and watching videos on the pros/cons of ARB vs. Eaton. A friend suggested using a Detroit/Auto locker in the rear and a selectable (ARB/Eaton) in the front, which would be the best of both worlds. This way, you have a robust time tested locker in the rear that has fewer weak points compared to a selectable locker.

My main concern is noises from the rear diff when driving it on the street/highway. For those who do have a Detroit, is it "clunky" at all when driving around town, or this happens only when making tighter turns like a u-turn, as opposed to turning left/right at a stop sign? I'm on 35's and re-gearing to 4.88's.
I would go with a "lunchbox type locker" like the Aussie locker, Spartan Locker, or lock right locker. Much cheaper than the detroit (less than 1/2 the price). You also do not have to re-setup the ring and pinion preload/backlash because you retain your original carrier.

If you are concerned about "clunky driving" in your rig then you likely don't do the kind of off roading that requires the strength of the detroit locker over the lunchbox type.

I have/have had Lock rights in a stickshift samurai and my automatic tundra. I have spartan lockers in my BJ 73. Where it is noticable having a locker is when turning tight in a parking lot on pavement. It can be "jerky" if you are in gear and on the gas at all with a stickshift. It is smooth in my tundra with automatic. Lock rights are smoother than the spartan locker in my experience. You will chirp the inside wheel with any locker if you accelerate from a stop while turning left or right. The only time you can hear the outside gear ratcheting past the inside is when you are coasting and turn into a parking spot at slow speed in a parking lot. This is all something you get used to and compensate for quickly. Sometimes when in a gradual turn at road speed and you go from coasting to accelerating it may want to go straight and require you to actually steer the vehicle a little more than without a locker. If you have a "loose vehicle" it's probably worse.
 
I'm on the verge of re-gearing a recent non-locked 80-series (it's a 97), and also want to install front/rear lockers at the same time. I have brand new/uninstalled ARB's for the front/rear that I got with the purchase, however started reading and watching videos on the pros/cons of ARB vs. Eaton. A friend suggested using a Detroit/Auto locker in the rear and a selectable (ARB/Eaton) in the front, which would be the best of both worlds. This way, you have a robust time tested locker in the rear that has fewer weak points compared to a selectable locker.

My main concern is noises from the rear diff when driving it on the street/highway. For those who do have a Detroit, is it "clunky" at all when driving around town, or this happens only when making tighter turns like a u-turn, as opposed to turning left/right at a stop sign? I'm on 35's and re-gearing to 4.88's.
I regard my ARB as a ‘robust, time-tested locker” - but on the trail, I actually don’t like driving with the rear locked all the time, as the rear end always wants to push the truck straight ahead.

I’m looking forward to the findings of the OP once the diff is apart.
 
I regard my ARB as a ‘robust, time-tested locker” - but on the trail, I actually don’t like driving with the rear locked all the time, as the rear end always wants to push the truck straight ahead.

I’m looking forward to the findings of the OP once the diff is apart.
I only use the lockers if there needed, It’s amazing what my 80 can do with no locker’s
Now that I’m confident in it’s abilities.
I have been watching a lot of comp Buggy stuff they do most obstacles with just the front locker.
It’s on my list to be able to just use the front locker instead of having to have the rear locker and the the front.
 
So, in the spirit of science (I use that loosely) I went out this morning to attempt to get stuck in 4Lo open diffs to test the lock/unlock condition of my front and rear Eatons. My location offered few challenges for the open diffs, but with some effort I was finally able to get crossed into some deep ruts with a steep bank out to get one front and one rear tire loose or up in the air. I made sure I was spinning in both forward and reverse and then selected my rear locker. Just releasing my foot off the brake I immediately began to climb out, backed up slowly and tried to get stuck again but simply climbed out in reverse with no delay, no wheel spin or delay with engagement. Unlocked again and got front and rear wheel spin established and continued testing starting in reverse with rear locked and then switching forward, just kept going forwards and backwards to ascertain any delays in directional locker unlock/lock situations. Unable to find any delays or lag (wheel spin) with engaging experiences in locked conditions of locker. Tested just the front locker several times in same manner and same results, just locks and stays locked in these test conditions. Now, as with any scientific investigation, more testing is required in more difficult and varied conditions to be more conclusive but for me, based on these findings, I have complete confidence in my Eaton lockers and that they will locked in both forward and reverse changes without noticing any unlocked conditions. BTW, I love have individual switches for front and rear lockers.
 
my complaint with selectables isn't that they fail, it's that they can cause failure of other bits and pieces. Those other pieces are inner drive shafts, birfields and drive flanges to name a few.

Consider you are climbing a steep hill that is relatively flat and are faced with a small 3' ledge/rock to climb with the front right tire.

Fully locked with a selectable means that both rear tires and the front left tire will want the truck to move forward 3' while the front right will resist moving forward because it wants to climb vertical for that 3'. So you need to apply enough power to break the 3 tires on flat ground free of traction to allow the front right tire to climb the ledge.

Kaisers automatically adapt to that situation and allow the front right tire to rotate at a higher RPM. So at that point the front right tire is fully locked and the other 3 are at reduced torque based on the rotational speed of those tires.
 
I love my auto lockers for all the reasons mentioned above
And in winter they kick ass too, you just need to learn to expect that if you hammer it halfway through a turn, that they will lock. That doesnt mean you fly out of control though
Would i chuck the keys to the girlfriend mid winter to make a liquor store run with her friends..... heeelllll no,
I like them better on the trail as they do differentiate, where as selectables will push you straight
Easier on the front end too, again because they will differentiate

different strokes and all
 
So, in the spirit of science (I use that loosely) I went out this morning to attempt to get stuck in 4Lo open diffs to test the lock/unlock condition of my front and rear Eatons. My location offered few challenges for the open diffs, but with some effort I was finally able to get crossed into some deep ruts with a steep bank out to get one front and one rear tire loose or up in the air. I made sure I was spinning in both forward and reverse and then selected my rear locker. Just releasing my foot off the brake I immediately began to climb out, backed up slowly and tried to get stuck again but simply climbed out in reverse with no delay, no wheel spin or delay with engagement. Unlocked again and got front and rear wheel spin established and continued testing starting in reverse with rear locked and then switching forward, just kept going forwards and backwards to ascertain any delays in directional locker unlock/lock situations. Unable to find any delays or lag (wheel spin) with engaging experiences in locked conditions of locker. Tested just the front locker several times in same manner and same results, just locks and stays locked in these test conditions. Now, as with any scientific investigation, more testing is required in more difficult and varied conditions to be more conclusive but for me, based on these findings, I have complete confidence in my Eaton lockers and that they will locked in both forward and reverse changes without noticing any unlocked conditions. BTW, I love have individual switches for front and rear lockers.

I think the scenario that people are leery of is being locked, driving forward, rocking back momentarily, then getting on the gas to go forward again, and having the mechanism unlock in that half tire rotation. So, when you got the gas again the kicker is momentarily unlocked.

I can picture it being a potential downside, but without playing with it in the bush, not sure if would actually translate to being a problem
 
I think the scenario that people are leery of is being locked, driving forward, rocking back momentarily, then getting on the gas to go forward again, and having the mechanism unlock in that half tire rotation. So, when you got the gas again the kicker is momentarily unlocked.

I can picture it being a potential downside, but without playing with it in the bush, not sure if would actually translate to being a problem
I’ll be able to speak to direct experience relatively soon but this is my expectation as well.

It sounds like one of those things that could be a problem in theory but not in real world application. Same sort of thing as the whole “5.29s are way weaker than 4.88s just trust me bro,” when there is nothing that shows this to be the case in practice.
 
my complaint with selectables isn't that they fail, it's that they can cause failure of other bits and pieces. Those other pieces are inner drive shafts, birfields and drive flanges to name a few.

Consider you are climbing a steep hill that is relatively flat and are faced with a small 3' ledge/rock to climb with the front right tire.

Fully locked with a selectable means that both rear tires and the front left tire will want the truck to move forward 3' while the front right will resist moving forward because it wants to climb vertical for that 3'. So you need to apply enough power to break the 3 tires on flat ground free of traction to allow the front right tire to climb the ledge.

Kaisers automatically adapt to that situation and allow the front right tire to rotate at a higher RPM. So at that point the front right tire is fully locked and the other 3 are at reduced torque based on the rotational speed of those tires.
This scenario is a perfect example of why you want to be able to lock only the front axle with out having to lock the rear !!
 

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