Stopping a 6k lb 80 on 38's better than our bone stock LX450 with refreshed brakes. F+R "motorsport grade" brake upgrade. (1 Viewer)

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Informative tech video on braking perfromance from Genright with guest R1 Concepts.



Re-iterates most the things I've said in this thread. How important bias is, using prop valve, factory or aftermarket, or even hand picking piston sizes to fine tune bias. Personally think LSPV delete is more of a bandaid than an actual solution. Points out exactly why I personally wouldn't go hydroboost. And how going manual(deleting booster) could benefit modulation. They over how different temperature pads can affect braking.

Personally think Tony did a better job explaining braking performance than the guy from R1 Concepts, hell I could have even done better... Honestly wish there was a company like Genright for the Land Cruiser community.

Anyways, not much progress on the big brake kit production. I've had 3 sets of different families visiting us the past 6 weeks, and moved into a new place, so haven't had much time for anything.
 
Man, I don't know I agree with off-roading a 6000+ lb cruiser with no booster. I was post front caliper(superlight 6) upgrade/ pre booster(tired old OEM booster/ MC/ ABS DELETE) and heading down a pretty steep 30' drop low speed, low gear and it wasn't a very pleasant feeling. I was giving it all I had and it was not stopping. It was just after a heavy downpour so not sure if that was the issue or the ABS. The 80 did stop great on the road.
Now post hydro booster install, I would say I don't like it more due to the fact its taking from the lack of steering help with the 37's, especially slow speed.
Of course I was sent a 1 1/8" bore MC trusting the place that made me the kit instead of the 1 1/6" I wanted and have not done much wheeling since so can't speak much to over modulation(way too stiff pedal now) but would actually like a softer more responsive feel myself. Seems like the hydro booster and 1 1/16 would be a great combo. I might switch over but holding out for now until I change a few more things and consider this now as well.

This is all from what I have experienced so far and not much time back out again post change and much less knowledge than you seem to have.
P.S. I still want those matching rear caliper brackets and E-brake so please jump on that soon.... :)


If your set on no booster, I would suggest taking your 80 down Redcone pass near Baily CO. I'm pretty sure you will change your mind.
 
Man, I don't know I agree with off-roading a 6000+ lb cruiser with no booster. I was post front caliper(superlight 6) upgrade/ pre booster(tired old OEM booster/ MC/ ABS DELETE) and heading down a pretty steep 30' drop low speed, low gear and it wasn't a very pleasant feeling. I was giving it all I had and it was not stopping. It was just after a heavy downpour so not sure if that was the issue or the ABS. The 80 did stop great on the road.
Now post hydro booster install, I would say I don't like it more due to the fact its taking from the lack of steering help with the 37's, especially slow speed.
Of course I was sent a 1 1/8" bore MC trusting the place that made me the kit instead of the 1 1/6" I wanted and have not done much wheeling since so can't speak much to over modulation(way too stiff pedal now) but would actually like a softer more responsive feel myself. Seems like the hydro booster and 1 1/16 would be a great combo. I might switch over but holding out for now until I change a few more things and consider this now as well.

This is all from what I have experienced so far and not much time back out again post change and much less knowledge than you seem to have.
P.S. I still want those matching rear caliper brackets and E-brake so please jump on that soon.... :)


If your set on no booster, I would suggest taking your 80 down Redcone pass near Baily CO. I'm pretty sure you will change your mind.
Oh, no I will never go manual brakes on an 80. I just don't see a reason for hydroboost if you can properly set up a modern braking system pretty much from scratch. It'll be better than tossing hydroboost on factory brakes designed 30 years ago. You're basically just adding more clamping force and introducing much more heat than factory calipers, rotors, and pads can handle. I think adding hydroboost to what I currently run would just lock up the tires way too quickly(not good).

I was previously referencing how motorsport teams may opt to remove the factory brake booster for manual brakes because in those scenarios they may already be at the threshold of tire traction, and they could make significant gains via brake modulation. I know Tony from Genright is pretty old school and likes full manual everything. :hillbilly:
 
@synapse any eta on when the front kit will be available for purchase yet?
 
@synapse any eta on when the front kit will be available for purchase yet?
Just to clarify these will be sold as matched front and rear kit in order to keep correct brake bias. Whether that's the lite version with rotor and high friction pad upgrade or full rear kit with larger rotor and aftermarket caliper for the rear.

That being said I'm running through a list of other personal projects on my two other vehicles, but have been doing my diligence in reaching out to machinists to get pricing and timelines on when they'd be free. In doing so I may have to sacrifice the "flip flop" style caliper adapters and just offer traditional caliper adapters that work with a single family of WIlwood calipers due to increased costs.

In ideal circumstances I will be sending out orders for machining of parts after the holidays, which should mean first batch availability some time in Feb. '23

At first I will most likely offer the kit using WW Aero calipers as I think the mass and rigidity is better suited for 6k-7.5k weight. Wheel barrel design will decide whether you can run this caliper or not. Then a second adapter that works with the WW Superlite caliper later on.


Take a note on barrel design on top and bottom wheels. Top has a stepped barrel that greatly reduces clearance for larger big brake kits while the bottom barrel is relatively flat and provides a larger internal diameter. I believe most wheel manufacturers measure this as the y-axis internal diameter or simply y-factor.
PhotoGrid_Plus_1667604850532.jpg


Outer Diameter:
Aero Caliper: 16"(406.4mm)
Superlite Caliper: 15.52"(394.2mm)
Add 5-6mm for a comfortable enough air gap and however thick any wheel weights might be...

To give people an idea for the bottom KMC Impact OL wheel pictured, I was given the measurement at three different points:
Y1: 409.60
Y2: 413.30
Y3: 416.80
(Aero caliper should clear if running typical 1.5" spacer)
 
Hi
Have you ever thought to create a buyers list for a first on list first sale? I believe this will be a heavily demanded product. I myself would like to commit to two full sets in advance. If someones turn comes up and they don't pay, they lose their spot and any down payment. I know Wits end does this with some of their stuff such as turbo kits. Cheers. Can't wait
 
It looks like from the rotor sizes that this won’t work with 16 wheels. Will the super light?
Unfortunately not worth designing, or even buying for that matter, a big brake kit to fit under 16" wheels. If we take a look at all modern SUV's or even CUV's with respectable braking performance, almost everything is 17"+ to clear brakes.

Hi
Have you ever thought to create a buyers list for a first on list first sale? I believe this will be a heavily demanded product. I myself would like to commit to two full sets in advance. If someones turn comes up and they don't pay, they lose their spot and any down payment. I know Wits end does this with some of their stuff such as turbo kits. Cheers. Can't wait
I'm personally not a big fan of the whole pre-order model for my own reasons and past experiences. At the very least I would like to have all the custom parts like machined components and brake lines before I begin taking any orders, then rotors, calipers, and pads can be drop-shipped from whichever supplier.
 
Unfortunately not worth designing, or even buying for that matter, a big brake kit to fit under 16" wheels. If we take a look at all modern SUV's or even CUV's with respectable braking performance, almost everything is 17"+ to clear brakes.


I'm personally not a big fan of the whole pre-order model for my own reasons and past experiences. At the very least I would like to have all the custom parts like machined components and brake lines before I begin taking any orders, then rotors, calipers, and pads can be drop-shipped from whichever supplier.
I’m running these (17x8.5 0 offset/4.75” backspace) with a spidertrax 1.5” spacer. Looks like it should clear.

 
Just to clarify these will be sold as matched front and rear kit in order to keep correct brake bias. Whether that's the lite version with rotor and high friction pad upgrade or full rear kit with larger rotor and aftermarket caliper for the rear.

We can talk directly, but any chance you would sell the fronts only for someone who has already upgraded the rear brakes/rotors? Just I have already sorted out the rear brakes so ideally just after better front brakes.

Cheers
 
Thanks for all of the hard work on this. Good lick with machining - I know getting adequate shop time reserved has been a bear for a lot of people lately.

As for fitment, better braking is a big enough deal to me that if they don't adequately clear my current rims, I'll change the rims. That's the easiest part of the equation to fix.
 
@synapse Any word on progress?

Unfortunately no major progress. Huge grind with day job to get projects out the door before the end of the year, then slight bit of a career shift to kick off the new year(for better).

Update on brakes...

Rear options will be consolidated, found a 4 piston Wilwood caliper that will work with the factory rear. Should increase clamping jut a tad bit, but give much more options in terms of higher performance brake pads. That being said need more time to mock up the rear.

Found a machinist I'll be going with. Ditching the flip flop caliper bracket and will provide Aero and Superlite caliper brackets seperately. While concept of it is great, it's not financially feasible without increasing costs quite a bit. Aero kit will be released first in limited production as I don't see too many people going this route due to clearance issues with some 17" wheels, despite being the better caliper. Superlite calipers should clear nearly all 17" wheels barrels.
 
Unfortunately no major progress. Huge grind with day job to get projects out the door before the end of the year, then slight bit of a career shift to kick off the new year(for better).

Update on brakes...

Rear options will be consolidated, found a 4 piston Wilwood caliper that will work with the factory rear. Should increase clamping jut a tad bit, but give much more options in terms of higher performance brake pads. That being said need more time to mock up the rear.

Found a machinist I'll be going with. Ditching the flip flop caliper bracket and will provide Aero and Superlite caliper brackets seperately. While concept of it is great, it's not financially feasible without increasing costs quite a bit. Aero kit will be released first in limited production as I don't see too many people going this route due to clearance issues with some 17" wheels, despite being the better caliper. Superlite calipers should clear nearly all 17" wheels barrels.
Please count me in. I purchased Tarox fronts but my build is not at that stage yet. I will sell them and buy yours!
 
Unfortunately no major progress. Huge grind with day job to get projects out the door before the end of the year, then slight bit of a career shift to kick off the new year(for better).

Update on brakes...

Rear options will be consolidated, found a 4 piston Wilwood caliper that will work with the factory rear. Should increase clamping jut a tad bit, but give much more options in terms of higher performance brake pads. That being said need more time to mock up the rear.

Found a machinist I'll be going with. Ditching the flip flop caliper bracket and will provide Aero and Superlite caliper brackets seperately. While concept of it is great, it's not financially feasible without increasing costs quite a bit. Aero kit will be released first in limited production as I don't see too many people going this route due to clearance issues with some 17" wheels, despite being the better caliper. Superlite calipers should clear nearly all 17" wheels barrels.
Looking forward to seeing what you work out. Happy to help with testing, too. According to @torfab I break all kinds of weird stuff no one else seems to =)
 
If your up for input, I would suggest going a full SL F/R including E brake. The 17" rim will likely result in a big waste in time on the Aero kit, The OEM E brake is a big turd and another selling point. The 80's group is set on their 17's for some reason... I'm sure the offroad market is driving this.
I hope you get this to market, it seems like you have spent a lot of time on it. Hate to see it die off.

On a side note, for anyone considering this, I would suggest a refreshed booster(OEM or hydro) and complete refresh on your old brake system(as needed) as I know I got more out of my booster upgrade than upgraded calipers and rotors. Just my .02 and personal experience. Both we a great upgrade.

If your still gauging interest, I'm still up for the rear SL and E-brake combo.
 
If your up for input, I would suggest going a full SL F/R including E brake. The 17" rim will likely result in a big waste in time on the Aero kit, The OEM E brake is a big turd and another selling point. The 80's group is set on their 17's for some reason... I'm sure the offroad market is driving this.
I hope you get this to market, it seems like you have spent a lot of time on it. Hate to see it die off.

On a side note, for anyone considering this, I would suggest a refreshed booster(OEM or hydro) and complete refresh on your old brake system(as needed) as I know I got more out of my booster upgrade than upgraded calipers and rotors. Just my .02 and personal experience. Both we a great upgrade.

If your still gauging interest, I'm still up for the rear SL and E-brake combo.

Superlite caliper wont fit factory rear rotor sadly, as the caliper doesn't clear the rotor hat OD. I'll revisit the plan to do 14.25" rear with electronic pb eventually.
Rear will be modular, adding ePB later. But for the time being I had Porterfield make me custom shoes pads that are thicker(larger OD) to bite into the drum earlier/better.
 
So, a few more months on now...

Any update?
Unfortunately no update yet, with the new career shift and keeping busy with winter sports/activities here in BC I just haven't had the mental capacity to focus on the rear kit properly. Summer now, so might try and order the rear Wilwood calipers soon, start taking measurements, and mocking up adapters.
 

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