Help Identify Tick/Knock (2 Viewers)

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Skreddy

SILVER Star
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Feb 3, 2020
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Deer Park, WA
79 FJ40 with stock 2F. Just replaced the head. Have a deep knock/tick sound. Can hear it well at idle but gets fainter as rpm’s increase until you can’t hear it at all anymore at maybe 2000 rpm. The engine runs fantastic, super smooth, tons of power, no smoke. I do not believe this to be a rod knock because it doesn’t behave like any other rod knock I’ve ever heard. Also, it occurs at the same speed as valve timing events. This leads me to believe it’s something related to work I’ve done in the past few months resealing the engine: something hitting a cover, etc.
What I’ve done to diagnose:
Have removed belt so it is not water pump or alternator.
Desmogged so not air pump, air rail or EGR related (though potentially one of the various emissions valves/pieces left but seems too loud for that)
Removed fuel pump and ran it so not fuel pump related.
Rechecked valve adjustment.
Ran with valve cover off and pushed on each pushrod and each rocker arm both sides while running.
Listened with piece of hose and cannot narrow it down. Seems loudest on drivers side front, mid block height.
Does not change with clutch use and much quieter when listening from below near clutch.

At this point I’m leaning toward timing gear related? I think next step is to drop the oil pan and check rod bearings to be sure, then probably timing cover off. I’ve been reading up on threads and have seen quite a few that describe same sound and years of trouble free service. Almost sounds like a Cummins 12 valve diesel idle.
Here’s a video. It is much louder in the video than in person.

 
My timing gear has a light tick/knock at idle, especially if it's a slightly higher idle like 750...650 is a bit quieter. If you get a mechanic's stethoscope, it's pretty easy to confirm if that's indeed where it's coming from - they're cheap and quite handy, and a bit more focused than the hose trick.

This does seem like the area, though: "Seems loudest on drivers side front, mid block height."
 
I noticed my truck making that noise while the engine is cool after I fixed some problems with other noise making parts. I traced the problem with a stethoscope to the lower end of cylinder 6. I believe my 2F has an arm bearing that will give up, someday. The noise goes away it idle pretty quickly after it warms up. I should probably be more worried about it, but I'm not at the moment.
 
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79 FJ40 with stock 2F. Just replaced the head. Have a deep knock/tick sound. Can hear it well at idle but gets fainter as rpm’s increase until you can’t hear it at all anymore at maybe 2000 rpm. The engine runs fantastic, super smooth, tons of power, no smoke. I do not believe this to be a rod knock because it doesn’t behave like any other rod knock I’ve ever heard. Also, it occurs at the same speed as valve timing events. This leads me to believe it’s something related to work I’ve done in the past few months resealing the engine: something hitting a cover, etc.
What I’ve done to diagnose:
Have removed belt so it is not water pump or alternator.
Desmogged so not air pump, air rail or EGR related (though potentially one of the various emissions valves/pieces left but seems too loud for that)
Removed fuel pump and ran it so not fuel pump related.
Rechecked valve adjustment.
Ran with valve cover off and pushed on each pushrod and each rocker arm both sides while running.
Listened with piece of hose and cannot narrow it down. Seems loudest on drivers side front, mid block height.
Does not change with clutch use and much quieter when listening from below near clutch.

At this point I’m leaning toward timing gear related? I think next step is to drop the oil pan and check rod bearings to be sure, then probably timing cover off. I’ve been reading up on threads and have seen quite a few that describe same sound and years of trouble free service. Almost sounds like a Cummins 12 valve diesel idle.
Here’s a video. It is much louder in the video than in person.




where exactly is all your MOTOR OIL ?

i don't see any flowing anywhere ?

what weight are you using viscosity wise ?


other then all that needed TECH ?

all i hear is this below .............



 
An old trick to check for a possible rod knock is pulling plug wires one at a time, with no spark it takes the load off that cylinder.
Forgot that: pulled wires 1 at a time with no difference.
 
where exactly is all your MOTOR OIL ?

i don't see any flowing anywhere ?

what weight are you using viscosity wise ?


other then all that needed TECH ?

all i hear is this below .............




Oil pressure is great, over half the gauge at idle and 3/4 while driving at 2000 rpm and up.
Oil is 10w-40 PennGrade. This is the oil he uses in all his other classic cars so keeping it the same.
There’s plenty of oil in the top end. It runs out of each rocker as I expect (same as about every other F/2F I’ve worked on).
 
Had the same noise but also an odd noise that sounded like an exhaust leak in the manifold. Investigation found low compression in 1 cylinder and ended up being burnt exhaust valve and cracked combustion chamber/ valve seat.
Before any of that, had the engine out to clean, reseal and paint. When the pan was off, checked rod bearings for wear but I think I only pulled 2-3 caps and they looked fine. None wiggled and didn’t seem like excessive crank endplay. Also removed the cam to change the gasket behind timing plate.
This noise was not there when it was purchased (before reseal work). This is what leads me to think it is related to that work. Either that or just by chance it happened at startup once that was done.
 
Had the same noise but also an odd noise that sounded like an exhaust leak in the manifold. Investigation found low compression in 1 cylinder and ended up being burnt exhaust valve and cracked combustion chamber/ valve seat.
Before any of that, had the engine out to clean, reseal and paint. When the pan was off, checked rod bearings for wear but I think I only pulled 2-3 caps and they looked fine. None wiggled and didn’t seem like excessive crank endplay. Also removed the cam to change the gasket behind timing plate.
This noise was not there when it was purchased (before reseal work). This is what leads me to think it is related to that work. Either that or just by chance it happened at startup once that was done.

Maybe the result of improved compression?
 
Well I only have that 11 second video to go by, but based on what you said and tried, this sounds like a wrist pin knocking, brought on by the fresh head and more compression...except when diagnosing this, it usually goes away when pulling the plug wire / removing the load. I'm guessing you don't want to pull the pan and wiggle the rods around?

I'm interested to know where narrow the sound down to with the stethoscope. Also, in person, does it sound in between say a ticking lifter and a rod knocking? That's usually what a bad wrist pin sounds like.

Edit: maybe you have more than 1 bad / worn wrist pin, hence pulling plug wires 1 at a time doesn't make it go away.
 
Well I only have that 11 second video to go by, but based on what you said and tried, this sounds like a wrist pin knocking, brought on by the fresh head and more compression...except when diagnosing this, it usually goes away when pulling the plug wire / removing the load. I'm guessing you don't want to pull the pan and wiggle the rods around?

I'm interested to know where narrow the sound down to with the stethoscope. Also, in person, does it sound in between say a ticking lifter and a rod knocking? That's usually what a bad wrist pin sounds like.

Edit: maybe you have more than 1 bad / worn wrist pin, hence pulling plug wires 1 at a time doesn't make it go away.
I’ll try pulling 2 at a time and see if it makes a difference. Trying a real stethoscope tonight then will likely be dropping the pan to do some rod wiggling (hehe).
 
Pulling plug wires 2 at a time made no difference.
I used my camera scope in each cylinder and they all look fine and no chunks in there.
Compression test all 130-140.
Spun it over with no plugs in and no noise: can only hear it when it’s running idle to 1500-2000 ish rpm.
My wife picked up a stethoscope while she was running her errands. It is audible anywhere on the front half of the block or front of exhaust manifold but it’s really just noticeable, not like oh that’s it there! It is most audible on the drivers side of timing cover down low around crank. Audible on the front of the oil pan but half as loud (?) as on timing cover.
I think my plan is to pull the oil pan and timing cover. Not sure which to start with. Worst case scenario is a rod bearing failing and wiping out the block so logic tells me to pull oil pan and inspect rods first. However, logic also tells me if it’s loudest at the timing cover, pull it first before wasting out a pan gasket. Neither sounds fun in the truck.
 
An exhaust leak between head and manifold can sound just like a knock...
 
An exhaust leak between head and manifold can sound just like a knock...
I checked it over really well feeling around and don’t feel anything. I will check again to be extra sure though.
 
I was thinking spark knock but your compression isn’t overly high. Mine had one after rebuilding the head and running 93 with timing adjustment fixed it. Keep us posted.
 
How tight is your harmonic balancer? Maybe a slight movement causing a noise?
 
79 FJ40 with stock 2F. Just replaced the head. Have a deep knock/tick sound. Can hear it well at idle but gets fainter as rpm’s increase until you can’t hear it at all anymore at maybe 2000 rpm. The engine runs fantastic, super smooth, tons of power, no smoke. I do not believe this to be a rod knock because it doesn’t behave like any other rod knock I’ve ever heard. Also, it occurs at the same speed as valve timing events. This leads me to believe it’s something related to work I’ve done in the past few months resealing the engine: something hitting a cover, etc.
What I’ve done to diagnose:
Have removed belt so it is not water pump or alternator.
Desmogged so not air pump, air rail or EGR related (though potentially one of the various emissions valves/pieces left but seems too loud for that)
Removed fuel pump and ran it so not fuel pump related.
Rechecked valve adjustment.
Ran with valve cover off and pushed on each pushrod and each rocker arm both sides while running.
Listened with piece of hose and cannot narrow it down. Seems loudest on drivers side front, mid block height.
Does not change with clutch use and much quieter when listening from below near clutch.

At this point I’m leaning toward timing gear related? I think next step is to drop the oil pan and check rod bearings to be sure, then probably timing cover off. I’ve been reading up on threads and have seen quite a few that describe same sound and years of trouble free service. Almost sounds like a Cummins 12 valve diesel idle.
Here’s a video. It is much louder in the video than in person.




i have a FSM fact Based Diagnosis here , and you have also self diagnosed you own symptom issues above as well :


- i don't think this is far fetched from my own personal experience either , so here we go , im diving straight in :



- your in the pacific north west , its record breaking heat wave ambient Temperatures outside driving conditions


- Your thermostat is NOT use to opening to this much yield and or is simply in need of replacement , it old and tired sticking too partially shut


- you have not noticed it or your temp sender and or gauge in dash TEMP might be a hair OFF ?


- lastly , you are in-fact without question running the incorrect Viscosity Engine oil right now in the 10W40 , you mention above




- your 1979 2F calls for 20w50 or SAE 50 or in between some where in your factory owners manual


- we all know engine oil 's primary purpose is COOLING the engine first and foremost , and lubrication 2nd , don't we ? 🤔

- if not , you know now ....... :rolleyes:


-

- so , in turn your 79 2F engine is overheating a bit and the thinned overheated and thinner viscosity motor oil only adds to your symptoms 100%


- so ............

- i would prescribe this steps by steps approach :


- replace your thermostat OEM TOTOTA 82'c part # 90982-03048 / flush complte cooling system to maximize cooling if old crap and crud is in system blocking the

Radiator a bit too ?

- change your incorrect motor oil , with at the minimum 20W50 , your making a poor choice if not going with FULL Syntheic , but thats up to you , but nothing less then

20w50 period

- NEW filter too , no cheating here , ok ? :D


-



- i think i covered your issue pretty well , i know this can happen because i have had it happen here on the east coast mid Atlantic region , you absolute have to do a

seasonal oil change bare minimum on ANY F15 2F or 3FE / 3F summer winter blends according to the Owners manual and viscosity charts ..........


- photos or i does not exist right ?

- In-DEPTH TECH Videos on this exact topic and it does indeed exist , on original TOYOTA paper Print media .........



grab a few cold ones , and grab a pen and paper because this is real and it's good ....... :popcorn:






 

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