HELP NEEDED tonight - Power Steering (possible screw up) (1 Viewer)

[Last Flight Out]

Literally had my 81 FJ40 for less than 3 weeks and I may have screwed up. Need help from anyone who can get me out of a bind. Here's what happened:

1) The FJ I have as a JT Outfitters power steering conversion - with rebuilt FJ40box, toyota pump and such. FJ was working perfectly fine as of 3 days ago, but noticed some slight seepage from one of the lines that goes into the box. AFT fluid was low - so off to Napa to put some conventional Valvoline DEX/MERC ATF fluid (PO used non-synth when he sold this to me and said it was conventional) into the reservoir and tighten up the nut for that line. Brass washer for that Possibly needs to be looked at later.

2) Filled up when cold to the cold markings, turn FJ over and makes some groaning noises after 3 min warm up - pull out of garage and steering groaning badly. Steering wheel struggling at full turns when groaning. Video: https://youtu.be/Q8Z6beR_oow .... Never seen this before. Stop engine - look in reservoir and red fluid looks to be foaming up and no longer clear.

Did I use the wrong type of ATF fluid?? I was certain that this would work, but maybe not.

What do I do to get this corrected?

I am certain it is not the pump here and feels like something with the pump - maybe the wrong fluid?

I am not sure how to drain and flush the PS system but if this is the way to go, is the pump ok if I used the wrong type of ATF?

Please help - I feel like an idiot here and just not sure why this is happening.

 

[aging fleet]

Not sure what’s going on, but I wouldn’t think you’d have such an adverse reaction from simply using a different type of ATF.

 

[Last Flight Out]

After closer inspection, I am seeing a lot of fluid under the pump. So it may be the pump which was rebuilt.

 

[mrboatman]

You have AIR in your system. Let it set over night then try it again turn full lock in both direction. The air will settle out. You did not hurt anything.

 

[Last Flight Out]

You have AIR in your system. Let it set over night then try it again turn full lock in both direction. The air will settle out. You did not hurt anything.

@mrboatman it was just so strange how this happened just by topping up the atf fluid. I believe I have a leak as well at the power steering pipe meeting areas… One to the box and one to the back of the power steering pump. Do you recall if these unions needed a copper washer or some sort of an inset washer at all? I’m wondering if mine are missing because there was some leakage.

 

[Last Flight Out]

@mrboatman it was just so strange how this happened just by topping up the atf fluid. I believe I have a leak as well at the power steering pipe meeting areas… One to the box and one to the back of the power steering pump. Do you recall if these unions needed a copper washer or some sort of an inset washer at all? I’m wondering if mine are missing because there was some leakage.

Had a little bit of seepage at this union to the box. The top one and you can see a bit of liquid around the union. The bottom one is dry here but these was some fluid under the pump at this union running down some of the suspension. Pump was rebuilt by JT Outfitters…

 

[ToyotaMatt]

You need to please show detailed photos so I can clearly read the back of the container and the front close up too

I will then carefully read the entire front and back labels and report back to you here in this thread a concrete fact based conclusion regarding the right or wrong ATF fluid topic you ask for assistance above

I know this topic very well


Matt

 

[Last Flight Out]

You need to please show detailed photos so I can clearly read the back of the container and the front close up too

I will then carefully read the entire front and back labels and report back to you here in this thread a concrete fact based conclusion regarding the right or wrong ATF fluid topic you ask for assistance above

I know this topic very well


Matt

@ToyotaMatt thank you for any input. Appears to have a leak at back of pump. Maybe at the union, but not sure if the pipe is bad (which is new) or it needed some kind of copper washer that sits under that union (into the pump mounting area). Forgot to mention this was a JT Outfitters kit - including the rebuilt pump, and have not seen the best feedback from that company for their quality. I did not purchase from JT but PO did, so have no way of even discussing with JT - nor do I.

Residue was quite noticeable when I ran my hand under pump after the noise started - and had a lot of ATF on my hand. Some drained down on lower suspension. But I am not sure why this all happened when all I did was topped up fluid....it was almost bone dry in the reservoir.

 

[Last Flight Out]

....also all unions are SUPER TIGHT....do not want to torque down anymore. I very small amount of weepage at the top of the box (see pic above of box) just around the coupler. You can see a tad of shiny ATF fluid after I wiped it away.

 

[ToyotaMatt]

....also all unions are SUPER TIGHT....do not want to torque down anymore. I very small amount of weepage at the top of the box (see pic above of box) just around the coupler. You can see a tad of shiny ATF fluid after I wiped it away.

lets start with the easy part , your fluid is CORRECT 100% , no worries there





now ..........

- elaborate in detail this recent " JT outfitter's " P/S kit oem pump and oem Hilux box more please ?

i have already made a conclusion and diagnosed the problem culprit , pretty much spot on ,,,,,

but before i get into this and that ,.


i would like to hear your facts and long term story and chain of events here pre - P/S conversion kit till now

this is crucial , before i start my diagnosis summery 411 ?

, report back in detail below

who installed this kit when where why etc . ?

thanks

 

[ceylonfj40nut]

Place the front end on jack stands and chock rear wheels. Fire up the truck in neutral. Turn your steering wheel all the way to left, then all the way to right about 10 times. Note to see if groaning sound lessens or goes away. Easy to do. Report back.

 

[Last Flight Out]

Sure @ToyotaMatt :

1) I purchased the car from Wadster (active MUD member here) and has been great. When I was purchasing the FJ, Chris Wade offered to add a PS conversion on the truck - which I opted for and was happy to get. Apparently he installed a PS conversion kit from JT Outfitters that included a refurbished Toyota FJ Pump/Reservoir, mini-truck box, brackets and all hoses. Chris installed prior to purchase and was working well when I test drove - as well as he saying it was driving well.

2) I test drove it ta day before posession of FJ and I felt like the steering wandered a bit - so he happily adjusted with a friend (per the FSM) the Hilux box, stating that "...It also stated to make sure not to go to far and have it bind. Since the kit came from JT Outfitters I assumed as with the past the adjustment was correct. Anyway it is a two man job and we turned the screw one revolution and seemed to help a lot." - He also adjusted the center arm adjuster unit at the front and said streeing was vastly improved.

3) After I took possession, maybe a week later....Power Steering started feeling a bit heavy (about a week or so ago) and that is when I looked to see ATF level - bone dry....added new ATF slowly, checking for level at cold and got it where I thought it was correct. It was then when the steering groaned and steering was struggling. Turned FJ off and let sit.

4) I noticed that PS fluid must have been leaking for a week or so (shown above) and appears to be coming from back of pump, that union to pump or top of box union.

That is where I am today.

I did see that someone else who used a rebuilt box from JTO also stated that they did not include some sort of brass washer (maybe a PS Pressure Hose Bubble flare?) used in the union to the box - and possibly back of pump....thus weeping or leaking. Chris was not sure if those were there during install, but offered a handful of washers to help correct if needed. He's been great.

 

[Last Flight Out]

Place the front end on jack stands and chick rear wheels. Fire up the truck in neutral. Turn your steering wheel all the way to left, then all the way to right about 10 times. Note to see if groaning sound lessens or goes away. Easy to do. Report back.

Will do....I did this procedure last night but with truck off, 20-30 times checking level and with cap off during the procedure. Someone said with truck off it the better way - but will fire it up a few and recheck and report back.

 

[Last Flight Out]

Quick Update....

1) Did the FSM procedure and no groan or moan. Seems to be working fine and slowly added as needed.
2) Clearly there is leak at this union spot...and quite a bit leaked.

Need to know what you all recommend here to help fix this - do you think its a bad PS pipe/union? Or would this be indicative of a missing copper washer?

If I replace this pipe or find there is a washer missing, what is the correct way to drain the PS reservoir, replace pipe and refill the correct way? Meaning this would be refilling a completely empty system and bleeding that system vs just topping off as I have done?

Small video here:

Pics below....

 

[M1A1cruiser]

FWIW, I don't see that there's a crush/sealing copper washer in there.
I am certainly not the expert on PS, but as that's one of your questions, just trying to provide some info from the FSM.

I understand that you don't want to crank down on that fitting anymore, but barring that - and assuming there's not a piece of dust in there that is preventing the hose-end flare from sealing on the housing - perhaps a new hose is in order. You can go to almost any hose/hydraulic shop and they'll make whatever length you need, with whatever ends you need pretty quickly; I have done this on engine swaps before when I'm mating a 5.3L to Toyota steering parts.

Glad the groaning ("air in the system" as per FSM) is gone, but clearly you have to address the leak because you want to keep fluid in there, and ALSO that leak is surely letting air in too.

Also, as far as draining, refilling, bleeding the correct way, do a search in the 40/55 Forum for "FSMs for a hell of a price". You can download the manual lots of places and it'll tell you exactly what to do. Advice on here is usually spot-on, but you can't go wrong with the instruction manual (as much as we all hate to read the directions sometimes - haha).

Hope to help,
TDC.-

 

[pb4ugo]

It appears to be leaking between the pipe and the flare nut. I'd try to tighten it. Maybe remove it and inspect for a bad flares. To drain it, put a drip pan on the floor below and remove the hoses.

 

[Last Flight Out]

Speaking to the PO now and appears that there is in fact a brass 'seat' that goes inside the pump union cavity and box cavity. Says they are easy to fall out and it is possible that JTO sent both without these seats that are past of the pump and box. Toyota does not just sell these seats, but are included in rebuild kits for each. If this is the case, I will remove the lines, drain and inspect everything. I suspect the hose is fine and pump itself is fine....

Case in point: Power Steering Pressure Hose Bubble Flare – JT Outfitters - https://www.jtoutfitters.com/product/power-steering-pressure-hose-bubble-flare/

 

[M1A1cruiser]

Speaking to the PO now and appears that there is in fact a brass 'seat' that goes inside the pump union cavity and box cavity. Says they are easy to fall out and it is possible that JTO sent both without these seats that are past of the pump and box. Toyota does not just sell these seats, but are included in rebuild kits for each. If this is the case, I will remove the lines, drain and inspect everything. I suspect the hose is fine and pump itself is fine....

Case in point: Power Steering Pressure Hose Bubble Flare – JT Outfitters - https://www.jtoutfitters.com/product/power-steering-pressure-hose-bubble-flare/

Hm. Sorry if I steered (no pun intended!) you wrong.

 

[Last Flight Out]

Hm. Sorry if I steered (no pun intended!) you wrong.

HA!!!! Needed that this AM....

 

[Last Flight Out]

While this is a Saginaw PS set up, I assume toyota pump and box should have this brass seat (something similar) inset to each orifice. Open to feedback here if anyone knows.- would be super helpful for someone to confirm this. Maybe @orangefj45 can chime in.....as the post I am referencing was for a 60 series Sag pump.

These brass doo-hickeys:

Finally!!!! Saginaw PS pump conversion kit for FJ60s!!!!!

I have heard that the Saginaw P series pumps have a lot more PSI than the Toyota pumps. Would switching potentially blow out the seals in the steering box? I have found a low PSI pump from summit racing, and I think it's around 800PSI. Would that be a better option? Or using a power steering psi...

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