Possible 1994 80 purchase (2 Viewers)

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Joined
Jul 2, 2019
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145
Location
Indianapolis
Hi all,
I'll start by saying I've never owned an 80. I currently daily a 97 4R, and have been into Jeeps primarily before now. I was driving home and spotted a green 94 fjz for sale on the side of the road, so of course I went to have a look. It's listed for $1000 with a "blown engine", and after some detective work I was able to track the owner down to have a chat. It seems that it MAY just be the head gasket that has failed because it seems that the only issue is oil in the coolant. Full disclosure, he's an over the road trucker so I haven't gotten to listen to the truck run yet, but before I do I'd be interested in some input from those that know more than me.

Truck stats:
1994
260,000 miles (ish)
Triple locked
The rust situation is extremely good for it being a salt country truck...rockers, frame rails, doors all great. There's a blister under the rear window, but that seems to be somewhat common.
Interior condition is decent, but absolutely shows wear
Suspension and tires seem to be okay, but that's nitpicky even if it ran well.

My questions to you guys are :
How laborous is a head gasket replacement on a 1fzfe?
How laborious is an engine swap, and how easy is it to find a suitable replacement - this would be if the pistons were melted or there was a severe knock or something
Is there anything besides engine failure that can cause oil to get in the coolant....this is both a general and FJ80 specific question. I know there are some instances in jeeps, but it's almost always a bad headgasket and/or a warped head.
Is there anything else that I should look for during an inspection that I may not have thought of? My primary concerns are always rust, engine health, and transmission health but those are applicable to damn near every vehicle.

Any additional input for a newbie would be rad.
The attached pic is the truck in question.

Thanks in advance

PXL_20220507_131417429.jpg
 
Hi all,
I'll start by saying I've never owned an 80. I currently daily a 97 4R, and have been into Jeeps primarily before now. I was driving home and spotted a green 94 fjz for sale on the side of the road, so of course I went to have a look. It's listed for $1000 with a "blown engine", and after some detective work I was able to track the owner down to have a chat. It seems that it MAY just be the head gasket that has failed because it seems that the only issue is oil in the coolant. Full disclosure, he's an over the road trucker so I haven't gotten to listen to the truck run yet, but before I do I'd be interested in some input from those that know more than me.

Truck stats:
1994
260,000 miles (ish)
Triple locked
The rust situation is extremely good for it being a salt country truck...rockers, frame rails, doors all great. There's a blister under the rear window, but that seems to be somewhat common.
Interior condition is decent, but absolutely shows wear
Suspension and tires seem to be okay, but that's nitpicky even if it ran well.

My questions to you guys are :
How laborous is a head gasket replacement on a 1fzfe?
How laborious is an engine swap, and how easy is it to find a suitable replacement - this would be if the pistons were melted or there was a severe knock or something
Is there anything besides engine failure that can cause oil to get in the coolant....this is both a general and FJ80 specific question. I know there are some instances in jeeps, but it's almost always a bad headgasket and/or a warped head.
Is there anything else that I should look for during an inspection that I may not have thought of? My primary concerns are always rust, engine health, and transmission health but those are applicable to damn near every vehicle.

Any additional input for a newbie would be rad.
The attached pic is the truck in question.

Thanks in advance

View attachment 3011774
Offer him $500.

Blown HG is common at least one time on every 1FZ-FE engine.

You'll be looking at $4000 to do a HG, depending on how much you do yourself.

That includes a fair amount of "While I'm In There" stuff (hoses, radiator, plugs, wires, etc.)

These trucks like TOYOTA parts. Buy from McGeorge Toyota Online, Partsouq, or local dealer
This will likely need full baselining of all axles and electrical. It's a 28 YO truck with 260K.

Odds are the block is fine, it just needs a HG and the head reworked UNLESS it's been sitting with coolant in a cylinder for 6 months or more. Then you may have cylinder pitting due to to stupidity.

Unfortunately, it's green.

Get whatever maintenance records he can provide.
 
Offer him $500.

Blown HG is common at least one time on every 1FZ-FE engine.

You'll be looking at $4000 to do a HG, depending on how much you do yourself.

That includes a fair amount of "While I'm In There" stuff (hoses, radiator, plugs, wires, etc.)

These trucks like TOYOTA parts. Buy from McGeorge Toyota Online, Partsouq, or local dealer
This will likely need full baselining of all axles and electrical. It's a 28 YO truck with 260K.

Odds are the block is fine, it just needs a HG and the head reworked UNLESS it's been sitting with coolant in a cylinder for 6 months or more. Then you may have cylinder pitting due to to stupidity.

Unfortunately, it's green.

Get whatever maintenance records he can provide.
Appreciate it.

$4k is about what I saw for dealer pricing on a quick internet search, and that would be way over my head. I've done about half a dozen i6 Jeep HG's and can do one in about 4-5 hours nowadays...I suppose I'm looking for a difficulty comparison between the two. I took a look at a youtube and the FSM, and it seems that the Toyota engine is MUCH more complicated to disassemble, and that the head would need someone specifically skilled to machine.

As far as maintenance records go, I doubt this fella has much of anything, but I can certainly pose the question.
 
Appreciate it.

$4k is about what I saw for dealer pricing on a quick internet search, and that would be way over my head. I've done about half a dozen i6 Jeep HG's and can do one in about 4-5 hours nowadays...I suppose I'm looking for a difficulty comparison between the two. I took a look at a youtube and the FSM, and it seems that the Toyota engine is MUCH more complicated to disassemble, and that the head would need someone specifically skilled to machine.

As far as maintenance records go, I doubt this fella has much of anything, but I can certainly pose the question.
If you're not going to do the work yourself and going to pay a dealer.....double the numbers.

The key is to follow the FSM. If you've done a Jeep, you can do this, just follow the FSM and the videos.

Engine swap with a like kind and model is easy. Can do it in a weekend. Finding one that doesn't need the same thing will be the hard part.

Engine swap with a SBC or LS will be in the $xx,xxx range. Some will say less, but not many.
 
If it's not rusty, you want an 80 and you are prepared to feed it time and parts for a while then I say go for it. Depending on how far you want to take it you could easily spend over $10k in parts "baselining" an out of date 80 but you'll end up with an amazing rig that's ready to run for a long time to come.

I picked up a sub $2k triple locked 80, with no rust, back in '97 and am about $15k in parts into it and have enjoyed almost every minute of the work and driving of it. That included the head gasket and a ton of "while in there" stuff and maintenance during the over 55k miles driven in it so far. You definitely don't have to go that route and could just fix the HG and then do the minimum required to keep it on the road but many of us end up wanting these to be as reliable as possible and to drive as well as they can so we keep going with the repairs and I think it's worth thinking beyond the initial repairs before you buy.

If you are on a similar path to what I describe above $1k vs $500 doesn't really matter in the long run. Rust and paint/body condition may be the two largest variables in terms of long term cost of ownership as they are the most expensive to address typically.

Given your experience you'll have no issue with the HG work on an 80. You do want to take the head to a qualified machinist for inspection and to have any service work done on it but I'd do that with the head(s) off of any engine and don't see it as unique to an 80. It may take some effort to source them but you should be able to pick up a used head or engine as needed if you have to go that route but it's of course hard to say until you open up the one in that '94. It is possible that the oil cooler or it's seals failed and caused the oil-in-coolant scenario but the HG is more likely.

Good luck with the decision.
 
If you're not going to do the work yourself and going to pay a dealer.....double the numbers.

The key is to follow the FSM. If you've done a Jeep, you can do this, just follow the FSM and the videos.

Engine swap with a like kind and model is easy. Can do it in a weekend. Finding one that doesn't need the same thing will be the hard part.

Engine swap with a SBC or LS will be in the $xx,xxx range. Some will say less, but not many.
So you'd put an estimate at $4,000 with work being done at home? Is that mostly from machining/rebuilding the cylinder head? Or are the gasket sets that expensive? (apologies I haven't really looked yet). I'd never consider a 5 digit swap, so that's out before it's in. I'm pretty sure there's a wrecked LX450 at the pick-n-pull near me but that was months ago, so I'd assume its been crushed or someone got the guts already. I'm glad I asked before diving in....I'll be honest, I was expecting a $1,200 bill if I were to do the work myself.
 
Costs will vary widely based on how much else you do while in there. I paid $350 in 2017 to have my head gone through by a local (E. TN) head rebuild shop, including replacing valve seals but I would typically expect to pay more.

Drop these into Google for some ideas (somewhere on mud are some good breakdowns)

1fzfe head gasket replacement cost site:forum.ih8mud.com​
1fzfe head gasket "while in there" cost site:forum.ih8mud.com​
You could definitely replace the HG for far less than $4k but depending on what you find and what you want to knock out while in there you could easily spend that much or more and these are all DIY numbers. I personally spent a little over $1k on the HG job including new Toyota gaskets, replacing all rubber vac and coolant lines, rebuilding injectors, rebuilding PS pump, ign. plugs/wires/etc., new head bolts, a lot of cleaning, etc. Biggest part of the job for me was probably all of the cleaning (intake runners stand out) and getting the long/heavy head on off was tricky.
 
These are not inexpensive trucks to maintain, and as mentioned above, they do best with OEM parts. I decided on the LS swap option when it was time for engine work in my 80. Even with the drivetrain on hand, at no cost to me, the swap approached $10k. That was doing everything but the exhaust work myself. 80's are terrific trucks and will last a very long time if properly cared for, and at that price point you'd be hard pressed to do better on one.

JMHO...
 
So you'd put an estimate at $4,000 with work being done at home? Is that mostly from machining/rebuilding the cylinder head? Or are the gasket sets that expensive? (apologies I haven't really looked yet). I'd never consider a 5 digit swap, so that's out before it's in. I'm pretty sure there's a wrecked LX450 at the pick-n-pull near me but that was months ago, so I'd assume its been crushed or someone got the guts already. I'm glad I asked before diving in....I'll be honest, I was expecting a $1,200 bill if I were to do the work myself.
Our local head rebuilder (negotiated) is about $600 for the machining.

Gasket set for just a head replacement will be in the $800 range (ONLY use Toyota HG.)

The additional costs are the other stuff you do while you're in there.

Radiator, hoses, PS pump and or hoses, all vacuum hoses, EGR stuff, plugs, wires, oil, filters, motor mounts........

I think I'm pretty close on what it will be cost if you do it yourself with replacing the necessary baseline things you SHOULD do while there.

This also assumes you don't do anything stupid like break a cam or drop a screw where it shouldn't be.......

Then there's the time aspect.

How long?
One day to blow it apart.
One day to remove the head and deliver to the machine shop
14 days to work on cleaning and changing stuff while the machine shop does their job
7 days to allow the machine shop to get parts they didn't know they needed
One day to go get the head from the machine shop
One day to start putting it together and realizing you forgot to order one gasket
7 days to wait for the gasket you forgot
One day to get started again
Three days to get the head and cams installed
Three days to search 'Mud for answers on how the timing chain guide works and to debate whether or not you should change it since you are already in there, then find out that you COULD change it if you pull the timing cover, but you need to drop the oil pans, or should you just pull the engine?
Three days to bolt it all back together and fill with coolant
14 days to figure out why it won't start after you get it all back together only to find out that the ground wire on the ignitor wasn't intact any longer
Two more days trying to make it run right because it will start, then stall and you don't know why only to find out you unscrewed the two screws on the VAF and pulled on the harness and now you need a new VAF and no one has one.
14 days to wait for the new aftermarket VAF because you happened to land at the RIGHT time and he just got done making a run of them.

So, 72 days later, you'll have it all together and get ready to drive it for the first time!

You'll rejoice in that fact, then realize the brakes need to be rebuilt and the booster doesn't work, maybe it needs new tires.....oh, and I really like that bumper that Delta V makes, but it's a 16 week wait.........

And so it begins......
 
Being tripled locked just the driveline is worth way more than $1000
If it's not rusty, you want an 80 and you are prepared to feed it time and parts for a while then I say go for it. Depending on how far you want to take it you could easily spend over $10k in parts "baselining" an out of date 80 but you'll end up with an amazing rig that's ready to run for a long time to come.

I picked up a sub $2k triple locked 80, with no rust, back in '97 and am about $15k in parts into it and have enjoyed almost every minute of the work and driving of it. That included the head gasket and a ton of "while in there" stuff and maintenance during the over 55k miles driven in it so far. You definitely don't have to go that route and could just fix the HG and then do the minimum required to keep it on the road but many of us end up wanting these to be as reliable as possible and to drive as well as they can so we keep going with the repairs and I think it's worth thinking beyond the initial repairs before you buy.

If you are on a similar path to what I describe above $1k vs $500 doesn't really matter in the long run. Rust and paint/body condition may be the two largest variables in terms of long term cost of ownership as they are the most expensive to address typically.

Given your experience you'll have no issue with the HG work on an 80. You do want to take the head to a qualified machinist for inspection and to have any service work done on it but I'd do that with the head(s) off of any engine and don't see it as unique to an 80. It may take some effort to source them but you should be able to pick up a used head or engine as needed if you have to go that route but it's of course hard to say until you open up the one in that '94. It is possible that the oil cooler or it's seals failed and caused the oil-in-coolant scenario but the HG is more likely.
Thanks fellas. This board is way more active than I figured....I appreciate all of the information and am stoked that I decided to post up before even taking a legit look at the truck. Honestly, if I can get it back on the road with confidence in the reliability for $4k, I'd be pretty happy about that. It would almost certainly end up being my DD because they're beautiful vehicles, and I work from home and can eat the 11mpg for the time being.
 
Either buy it or pass along the info to the forum so 1st come first served to buy it and "Rescue" it from a scrapper.
 
it seems that the only issue is oil in the coolant

The big question is whether there's water in the cylinders. That's the difference between a simple head gasket replacement versus having a rusted, locked up cylinder.

If I were you, I'd snatch it up for $1k, no questions asked. In the current market, you could easily flip it for double that, especially to those Facebook dorks.

Here's the OTRAMM video on head gasket replacement:

 
Thanks again all. I just got back from going to look at it more in depth (the owner left the key for me). I hooked it to the ole jumpncarry and it started up after about a minute of being on there. It ran quietly with no loud ticking or knocking which seemed like a good sign, BUT when I got in the driver's seat the oil pressure gauge was reading 0. It didn't move when I applied about 1800rpm, so I fear the worst, but could it be a malfunctioning oil pressure sensor? I've got a few videos of it running and what the dash was saying as it was doing so that are uploading to my drive right now, and I can post links if anyone thinks they'd help. For now I'll put a couple of stills up.
The pics are of the oil pressure at about 1800rpm, the color of the coolant, and the color of the oil. To me, neither of them look particularly contaminated..the coolant looks dirty but not really oily and the oil looks pretty fresh to my eyes. I did notice a bit of whiteish exhaust coming out of the tailpipe, but nothing like you'd typically see from massively burning coolant.
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PXL_20220518_211718764.MP.jpg
 
I'll bet there's not a HG problem.

Buy it.

Drive it
Make a list.

Don't worry about the oil pressure, as the gauges are known to be wonky. If it wasn't knocking hard and making lots of racket, you are probably good.

Maybe you'll make a lot of people jealous on here. maybe some will tell you "I told you so...."
 
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I'll bet there's not a HG problem.

Buy it.

Drive it
Make a list.

Don't worry about the oil pressure, as the gauges are known to be wonky. If it wasn't knocking hard and making lots of racket, you are probably good.

Maybe you'll make a lot of people jealous on here. maybe some will tell you "I told you so...."
Well, I'm certainly not out to make people who are doing me a solid jealous......I really do appreciate all the input. I'll give him a buzz and ask when we can make the deal.
 
Well, I'm certainly not out to make people who are doing me a solid jealous......I really do appreciate all the input. I'll give him a buzz and ask when we can make the deal.
I hope you can make people jealous. That means you got a great deal!
 
when I got in the driver's seat the oil pressure gauge was reading 0
It's probably just disconnected or a bad sensor, but I wouldn't drive it until you've verified oil pressure.

The first thing you should do is look at what oil filter is on it:

 

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