How many people winch with stock alternator? (1 Viewer)

[ppc]

60 amp continuous is way to low
Here is what turned up with a quick Google for a Warn 9.5XP:

Amp Draw is the amount of electrical current the winch will draw depending on how hard the winch is pulling. Usually the winch will have a chart available showing the amp draw the winch will produce at increasing increments of pull up to it's maximum pull rating. Here is the amp draw chart for the same Warn 9.5xp. Keep in mind these are 1st wrap values, as the wraps on the drum build up and leverage is lost the amount of pull developed at the amp draws will be reduced.

Amp Draw Based on Line Pull

Line Pull	Amp Draw
0​	71​
2000​	169​
4000​	248​
6000​	328​
8000​	413​
9500​	482​

 

[Box Rocket]

I have a ComeUp 9.5rs on my 80 and still run the original factory alternator. I have used the winch a lot without issue. During Cruise Moab a couple years ago I winch 14 rigs up one of the obstacles on the trail I was leading. The winch (and alternator) handled it fine.

A bigger alternator is still a great upgrade! But the factory alternator can keep up with quite a bit.

 

[nukegoat]

Stock alternator here

 

[Chang739]

Yeah just for the sake of science I'm going to grab a current clamp and measure my current draw when doing some normal winching, but the data is otherwise available online. I didn't even think they provided this info (its not on the product page) until I took a peek into their sales catalogue.

Runva Catalogue 2022

Runva Catalogue 2022.

catalogue.runvawinch.com.au

 

[flintknapper]

What's the Duty Cycle of the Runva winch?

That will tell you how long and hard you can pull with it.

Since I am mostly a flatlander, my winch is a Badlands 12K and its duty cycle is 45 seconds of pull with 2 minutes off time. I hit it all the time when I use it, but it shuts down (as it should) then runs again after cooling off. Fortunately, I have used it more to cut down trees than I have to pull anyone out.

^^^^

For light pulls that is probably OK. But hard (near full capacity) pulls let it cool longer.

I believe Badlands bases its Duty Cycles on a 15 minute period.

Meaning if the Duty Cycle is 5% (winch for 45 seconds) then it needs to rest for at least 14 minutes and 15 seconds to give the motor time to cool.

Of course, no one is going to wait that long....but that is what they recommend on most of their winches.

 

[LandLocked93]

^^^^
I believe Badlands bases its Duty Cycles on a 15 minute period.

Meaning if the Duty Cycle is 5% (winch for 45 seconds) then it needs to rest for at least 14 minutes and 15 seconds to give the motor time to cool.

Of course, no one is going to wait that long....but that is what they recommend on most of their winches.

5% duty is Taco Bell after vodka night.

Surely Badlands is better than that.

 

[NKP Garage]

An upgraded alternator is great and all. But in my personal opinion, power STORAGE is where you should concentrate first. Bigger battery, dual batteries, etc...

 

[flintknapper]

5% duty is Taco Bell after a night of vodka.

Surely Badlands is better than that.

The thing to remember is that lighter pulls (perhaps exerting 1/2 the amp pull) increases the duty cycle and lessens the recommended wait (cool down) period.

So....a 1.5 minute pull (or more) might be perfectly safe. And that would be a LONG pull in most situations.

The 12K Badlands winch can be a perfectly serviceable winch for a lot of folks.....just don't overheat it.

 

[SmokingRocks]

I winch with the stock 80 amp alternator, when I was doing rescue/recovery stuff I had back-to-back full length pulls for hours at a time with my warn zeon 12k. The batteries and alternator weren't happy but they recovered.

 

[Chang739]

60 amp continuous is way to low
Here is what turned up with a quick Google for a Warn 9.5XP:

Amp Draw is the amount of electrical current the winch will draw depending on how hard the winch is pulling. Usually the winch will have a chart available showing the amp draw the winch will produce at increasing increments of pull up to it's maximum pull rating. Here is the amp draw chart for the same Warn 9.5xp. Keep in mind these are 1st wrap values, as the wraps on the drum build up and leverage is lost the amount of pull developed at the amp draws will be reduced.

Amp Draw Based on Line Pull

Line Pull	Amp Draw
0​	71​
2000​	169​
4000​	248​
6000​	328​
8000​	413​
9500​	482​

I bought a current clamp and just checked quickly: With no load (im pulling the rope so it winds up with tension) the winch spikes for half a second to a few hundred Amps then settles back down to 84 Amps.

I'll conduct a more scientific experiement later, I'll need to find something heavy...

On a side note, here is my electrical layout as seen from the crank battery terminals. I have a large marine switch that cuts off the winch when not in use. Is there any reason why I can't hook up my boot auxilery battery to the 12V line just before the winch switch (as in, right on the switch terminal) as per diagram? The Aux battery would bypass the winch switch, so it would always have power with the exception of the voltage isolator. In theory this should open when the crank side is below 13V and close when the crank side is above 13V (ie. Crank battery is charged, alternator is running and winch is off).

My aux battery is a deep cycle and i would prefer it doesn't supply the winch, but I also want the aux battery to charge as per normal. The winch switch terminal is the easiest location to tap into the charging circuit...

 

[Noahrob]

stock alternator, single battery, winch a fair amount, no hand throttle, just rev it...

 

[SmokingRocks]

Fine as drawn what’s protecting the winch circuit

 

[george_tlc]

I bought a current clamp and just checked quickly: With no load (im pulling the rope so it winds up with tension) the winch spikes for half a second to a few hundred Amps then settles back down to 84 Amps.

I'll conduct a more scientific experiement later, I'll need to find something heavy...

On a side note, here is my electrical layout as seen from the crank battery terminals. I have a large marine switch that cuts off the winch when not in use. Is there any reason why I can't hook up my boot auxilery battery to the 12V line just before the winch switch (as in, right on the switch terminal) as per diagram? The Aux battery would bypass the winch switch, so it would always have power with the exception of the voltage isolator. In theory this should open when the crank side is below 13V and close when the crank side is above 13V (ie. Crank battery is charged, alternator is running and winch is off).

My aux battery is a deep cycle and i would prefer it doesn't supply the winch, but I also want the aux battery to charge as per normal. The winch switch terminal is the easiest location to tap into the charging circuit...

View attachment 2945957

Your battery symbol is backwards The Big plate is the +ve... So as drawn you would have the battery backwards. You aux battery is wired 'strangely' since it is in series with your fridge...

cheers,
george.

 

[Chang739]

Hah nice, I'll fix that.

And yeah nothing protecting the winch except the marine switch. But you raise a good point, nothing protecting the cable run to the boot and auxiliary battery as drawn either... I'll chuck an inline fuse after the voltage isolator.

 

[-Spike-]

I'll conduct a more scientific experiement later, I'll need to find something heavy...

When I want to tension the rope to wind it pretty, I tie it to an immovable object (the base of a telephone pole in my alley, usually), put the truck in neutral, set the parking brake lightly, and pull the truck to the pole. I am outside the truck, guiding the rope onto the spool.

You can adjust the brake for more or less 'weight'. Be careful not to move the immovable object.

 

[ppc]

I don't understand how or why the alternator and starter are configured according to the diagram. Realizing that your diagram is a high level design, void of a lot of the details and components, there are somethings that should be changed/addressed. The high current power to the starter should be directly connected to the battery, possibly with a disconnect in between but not fused. The starter solenoid is connected via AM1 a 50A fuse and one of the fusible links not a 100A connection. That said the OEM setup should remain intact. Define what circuits are direct connect to the battery, those that are powered when ignition is "ON" or "Accessory" positions.

I would hook up the UHF radio to the auxiliary battery. Think of its purpose and use. As an example you're in an emergency situation, stuck winching hard, the battery overheats and dies. Now you have no emergency communications. A UHF radio draws minimal power during receiving/monitoring communications and transmitting would be short duration bursts of higher current. You can always start the motor to recharge that battery or hookup a solar panel etc.

 

[Chang739]

I get it, its a bad diagram I've made some changes above

I guess my main point is, as long as the voltage isolator I have works as advertised (just the normal dual battery isolator people use all the time) then the aux battery will charge under normal conditions and wont feed the winch when winching.

Thanks for the advice though

ppc: the UHF is strapped directly to the crank battery because I can't be bothered running yet another cable to the boot. If things get dire, its easy enough to unscrew the leads and hook them to another +12V source.

The aux deep cycle is in the boot because I'd rather it doesn't get cooked under the bonnet and its tucked in an unused space anyway. Also any plugs on the battery enclosure (USB, anderson, etc) are easily accessible from the rear rather than fishing in the engine bay.

Cheers

 

[alia176]

Just as an aside, i have never protected my winch circuit but I do know that any powered device should be protected. Seems like the 80 crowd's OCD tend to go overboard in this arena

My winch is powered off the aux battery and I'm using a wingnut on the terminals. Most of the time, the #2 winch wire positive cable is not connected to this battery because the winch isn't being used that frequently in my case. When I need the winch, I re-term the #2 wire then use the winch, come home and de-term the same cable and tuck it in front of the battery. I don't need to supply +12vdc to the winch all the time, in case of an accident or what have you.

Incidentally, my M10k winch pulled north of 600amp fully bogged down and I saw no point to route this power through any kind of switches or circuit breakers. I just follow the KISS principle and connect that cable when warranted. Been doing this for 17 years so far and counting.

YMMV.

 

[SmokingRocks]

f 600amp fully bogged down and I saw no point to route this power through any kind of switches or circuit breakers.

Wow, how did you measure that? My Warn zeon 12 draws a max of ~450 amps, if I drew 600 amps I'd run my cable in a conduit.

 

[alia176]

Wow, how did you measure that? My Warn zeon 12 draws a max of ~450 amps, if I drew 600 amps I'd run my cable in a conduit.

I used a DC current clamp and the inrush current was over 750 amps but it was a short hit. Mind you, I intentionally buried my 80 in the Midwest mud before doing a winching class. An IR gun was used to check for hot spots during the pull and to check the motor temps. I moved out of the Midwest so this hasn't happened since