80 In The Snow - open vs viscous coupling center (1 Viewer)

[SaturnAscends]

Not your question but if this is a dedicated icy/snowy road vehicle, look for a full-time 4wd with traction control(4runner or 100 series). If your heart is set on an 80, get an HF2AV and service the viscous coupler. But it won't be as capable as a-trac when it comes to sliding around on paved surfaces.

Is ATRAC really better than old-school 4WD with lockers in your experience? I have my doubts but haven't seen enough to know either way.

 

[PNWTreeOctopus]

Is ATRAC really better than old-school 4WD with lockers in your experience? I have my doubts but haven't seen enough to know either way.

I guess it seems like it would work the best. Lockers aren't the answer for snow on pavement (not to be confused with snow wheeling). I think the cruiser 4wd is gonna work great on icy roads, especially if you put some excellent winter tires on it. I would prefer ABS on my snow car, but that because I have low experience with non ABS in the snow, I can hang and pump brakes and all but ABS, AWD and snow tires are a winning combo. Tires are key. I just found a new LX crossover rolled down an embankment yesterday when I went out for a snowy hike. The FS type road had gotten 1" of snow, but had frozen underneath and this car lost traction in the turn and slide off the road and rolled. It was abandoned when I found it but it had generic dealer type all season tires which are generally pretty mediocre performers in the snow.

All this traction talk is oriented around getting the truck moving, but the largest hazard present using cars in the winter will likely be other driver's overconfidence in their vehicle and skills, and my ability to compensate for their driving skill (which is my ability to stop and turn without losing traction). The nuance of what 4WD system is all well and good and I'm enjoying the conversation, but the real world issues that make your trips "round trips" will have lots to do with avoiding the prevalent hazards. The PO sounds like he's on it with his mention of Blizzak tires and stock handling/ suspension, but we gotta watch out for well meaning folks (like the owners of this rig), who just don't really understand how to run a vehicle in the winter in their current location. I live in the Pacific Northwest and lots and lots of folks who have moved here from more wintery places struggle with our winter driving. Its often super icy (typically raining before its snowing) and we usually only see a few days of snow, and as such the highway mainence is not the same as MN, NY or other wintery places. My winter driving skills are from driving up to the ski area for decades, but when I hit the winter roads in the midwest or Canada, I'm way more cautious and drive on the slower end of the bell curve rather than the faster end. Works for my skills, rig and environment but thats just me and YMMV.

 

[Railwelder93]

Any 90s Toyota 4x4 will drive like a tractor compared to anything new with a brain. In a good and bad way, depending on what you like.

 

[PNWTreeOctopus]

Any 90s Toyota 4x4 will drive like a tractor compared to anything new with a brain. In a good and bad way, depending on what you like.

well said.

 

[SmokingRocks]

Viscous coupling center diff is great in the snow and in general wheeling

open center diff with no VC in the snow = spinning one front tire often. This is based on my real world experience, I've removed my VC and wish I had just replaced it honestly. It's great but unfortunately very vocally undervalued by many who quite honestly don't live in areas where it gets slick.

locking an open center diff results in the rear end kicking out (oversteering) very easily when powering around corners in the snow. I like that but I also have a LOT of training / have been a race instructor for many years, this trait can be and has resulted in very negative outcomes for less experienced drivers.

The VC keeps the power down and doesn't result in the 'kick out' nearly as frequently as a locked center. It smoothly transfers power to the front or rear rather than letting one tire just fire away all of the power. Find a cruiser with the VC.

 

[PIP]

I've never owned a Subaru or other AWD car. Owned lots of 1 ton 4x4 trucks with snow tires and locking diffs. The 94 80 series I have is like a light truck hauling enough in the bed to have great traction in the rear, but it's still heavy. I have found myself driving 45+ MPH in snow and ice with my 80 that I would be driving 25 in with my Superduty. I cannot compare it to a car, but the 80 has dramatically better grip in the snow and ice.

 

[BILT4ME]

My 96 with VC is extremely stable in the snow and ice. I have also disabled the ABS because I really don't like ABS in snow.

I have not driven he Sub anything to compare. I have driven a lot of old school Chevy 4WD trucks. Front and rear drive shafts turn equally. Open diff and LS diff's.

The LC is much more stable and capable at speed on the road. Steering is smoother than the older trucks. Driving a 4WD old school with LS front and rear makes all 4 wheels turn exactly the same speed. Cornering is next to impossible on extremely slick roads. Starting traction is excellent. Stopping works with driveline braking as well.

If I wanted a dedicated snow rig, I would choose a 95-97 LC with selectable lockers F/R and a viscous coupler and a CDL switch. I get the best of all worlds. I'm also up higher and heavier than a Subaru.

 

[z531519]

The going will not be a big problem for this truck, and the lack of power on highway driving conditions (and moreso with winter tires) makes it very docile. I don't really think a VC will make a lot of difference, but your winter tires will surely do. However, imo, stopping and turning, like any other big heavy trucks, is going to be its weak point in comparision to a light AWD sedan.

 

[Njck22]

Is ATRAC really better than old-school 4WD with lockers in your experience? I have my doubts but haven't seen enough to know either way.

Offroad? lockers dominate. On road? A-Trac all the way.
Traction control keeps you moving. Versus having to lock and unlock a center diff based on your judgement of the road conditions. It will also kick when you wouldn't expect to be losing traction, especially around corners. Not to mention allowing traction in emergency maneuvers. It's more sophisticated than you think, even the 1st generation system in the 100 series. It modulates throttle, front/rear brake pressures, even controlling inside/outside wheels based on steering wheel angle. And with the electro-hydraulic booster it's much more aggressive than the lighter duty systems in the sequoia.

Even with the above system, you can still get the rear end to swing around with some gas going around a corner on a slick surface

Once again, depends on your goals and desires. Get an 80 with a VC and compare it to your quattro. Might be surprised at how extra weight can compensate for less aids.

 

[SmokingRocks]

I don't really think a VC will make a lot of difference, but your winter tires will surely do.

Having a VC absolutely makes a difference when getting off the line. Without a VC you spin all your power out through one of the front tires.

 

[Railwelder93]

Atrac works pretty good in my wife’s 4 runner in mud, but I have seen it spazz out on ice. Nothing has grip and it doesn’t know what to do so it just grabs all the brakes and cuts throttle.

 

[z531519]

Having a VC absolutely makes a difference when getting off the line. Without a VC you spin all your power out through one of the front tires.

Interesting, never had to drive one without VC. It's possible it's the VC in action, but my 80 can not spin any tires from a dead stop on snow in 4HI as much as I try to . I simply attributed it the lack of power combined with tallish gear.

 

[BILT4ME]

Interesting, never had to drive one without VC. It's possible it's the VC in action, but my 80 can not spin any tires on snow in 4HI as much as I try to . I simply attributed it the lack of power combined with tallish gear.

You're not trying hard enough.

Push a little farther down on the skinny pedal on the right.

 

[dpeshkin]

Hi,
I am hoping to be in the market for an 80 series in the next 6-or-so months. I plan to “stage 0” it (refresh engine, mechanical components, etc) then slap some Blizzaks on it, and daily it in the winter—paved roads covered in snow/slush/ice). I’m not really interested in offroading it…. So, we can leave any comments about locking diffs etc etc at the door.

I have spent plenty of miles driving in the snow with AWD with Limited Slip center diffs (Audi with TorSen, Subaru WRX with Viscous Coupling); But I do NOT have experience driving in the snow with Full-Time 4-Wheel Drive like the 80’s have.

As I understand it, the later 80’s with the HF2AV Transfer Case with Viscous Coupler, which I assume would behave similarly to AWD with a limited slip center diff. However, I don’t know how the earlier-HF2A-equipped 80’s would behave in the snow with their Open center differential.

Does anyone with experience driving both versions have feedback? Is the HF2A noticeably less-good in the snow/slush/ice? Where/how/when do you notice the difference?
Ive seen a few post of people converting FROM the HF2AV TO the HF2A…which seems opposite to me…viscous coupler seems like a good feature. Although I suppose the advantage of not having it is that it is one less thing to fail (VCs tend to wear out eventually and aren't serviceable).

Basically, I am uncertain if I should focus on trying to find an 80 with the HF2AV or if I won't really notice a difference with an earlier model with the HF2A. FWIW, I would consider to put a helical gear LSD in the rear axle, with either transfer case.

Thank you all.

I have a 93 80 with a stock drivetrain, and last Tuesday we (the family) just barley navigated out of an absolute snow blizzard in the Sierras complete with white-outs, jack-knifing trucks, collisions , spinouts, etc. We went up the side embankment around the pile ups and just made it out. The LC paid for itself this week.

 

[PNWTreeOctopus]

I have a 93 80 with a stock drivetrain, and last Tuesday we (the family) just barley navigated out of an absolute snow blizzard in the Sierras complete with white-outs, jack-knifing trucks, collisions , spinouts, etc. We went up the side embankment around the pile ups and just made it out. The LC paid for itself this week.

What tires are you running? ABS in your 93? Open diffs? ETC. At this point most "stock" is sorta subjective...OP is a heavy researcher!

 

[z531519]

You're not trying hard enough.

Push a little farther down on the skinny pedal on the right.

LOL, i guess i've done it a couple of times gunning it up my icy driveway.

 

[chapel gate]

IME of winter driving my 80;

i use dedicated winter tyres, yokohama geolander I/T GO71.

centre diff locked, high range.

ABS disengaged. i found it to be lethal in snow/hardpack.

forget front and rear lockers, unless your trying to get unstuck, its like trying to steer a elephant in a shopping trolley..

got to say, the 80 is pretty unstoppable set up like this.

 

[Railwelder93]

The 80 is unstoppable in the same way a bulldozer is. It will go anywhere but if you don’t know how to dive it your going to kill yourself. Lol

 

[chapel gate]

slightly unrelated, but two videos, first one general grabber ATs, second the yoka winters.
the steep section is very steep.

 

[manofthewoods]

IME of winter driving my 80;

i use dedicated winter tyres, yokohama geolander I/T GO71.

centre diff locked, high range.

ABS disengaged. i found it to be lethal in snow/hardpack.

forget front and rear lockers, unless your trying to get unstuck, its like trying to steer a elephant in a shopping trolley..

got to say, the 80 is pretty unstoppable set up like this.

I hear ya, but I've had excellent experiences with ABS in multiple vehicles. Latest was the half dozen mule deer that crossed in front of me at oh dark thirty. I was going,~55 on a sheet of ice. Stood on the brakes and steered around 'em (in my LX450). Old school brakes would have wiped out my front end, or worse.
To be fair, I've practiced a bunch on parking lots and lakes.