3 batteries for power? What connects to what? (1 Viewer)

[TreatSmash]

Thank you very much in advance, I spend half my time these days on youtube and ih8mud.

So i am trying to figure out exactly how I want to do my power. I have a lot of international travel and outdoors experience, just not with a vehicle. I am retiring from the Army in 1 year and putting everything storage and selling my house.
I am planning a long term trip, years long, around the US and maybe as far south as cape horn. I may even ship the LC to Europe and do the Silk Road when I am done.


With that in mind, I am trying to do a dual battery setup as well as a lithium ion goal zero. I got the battery expansion kit from Slee on the way and I already ordered a goal zero 1500 with the car charging kit. I intend on installing a Blue Sea fuse hub and accessory panel.


ok so the questions. What should I connect to what? Fridge to house battery or goal zero? Goal zero to house battery or starter battery? Light bar?
Keep in kind the starter battery will be a group 31, but the house battery will be much smaller (34 maybe as big as will fit).

My uneducated plan is to run the fridge and the lights off the 2nd battery, and charge the goal zero from the main battery in car mode. I can move the fridge to the GZ if I need to in a pinch, but I don't want to get into the habit of plugging and unplugging everyday, I'll wind up forgetting. I will likely be moving a lot. the goal zero can charge to full in 2-3 hours of travel with car adapter. The goal zero will be my day to day living battery for my laptop and phone and 100 other things that need charging, also my primary source of heat in the form of an eclectic blanket, as I will be sleeping inside the vehicle.


So does anyone have any advise? What am I missing or doing wrong?

 

[TreatSmash]

I realized I probably posted this in the wrong forum, now I don't know how to delete it. Possibly can't because I am a new member.

 

[saucebox]

Thank you very much in advance, I spend half my time these days on youtube and ih8mud.

So i am trying to figure out exactly how I want to do my power. I have a lot of international travel and outdoors experience, just not with a vehicle. I am retiring from the Army in 1 year and putting everything storage and selling my house.
I am planning a long term trip, years long, around the US and maybe as far south as cape horn. I may even ship the LC to Europe and do the Silk Road when I am done.


With that in mind, I am trying to do a dual battery setup as well as a lithium ion goal zero. I got the battery expansion kit from Slee on the way and I already ordered a goal zero 1500 with the car charging kit. I intend on installing a Blue Sea fuse hub and accessory panel.


ok so the questions. What should I connect to what? Fridge to house battery or goal zero? Goal zero to house battery or starter battery? Light bar?
Keep in kind the starter battery will be a group 31, but the house battery will be much smaller (34 maybe as big as will fit).

My uneducated plan is to run the fridge and the lights off the 2nd battery, and charge the goal zero from the main battery in car mode. I can move the fridge to the GZ if I need to in a pinch, but I don't want to get into the habit of plugging and unplugging everyday, I'll wind up forgetting. I will likely be moving a lot. the goal zero can charge to full in 2-3 hours of travel with car adapter. The goal zero will be my day to day living battery for my laptop and phone and 100 other things that need charging, also my primary source of heat in the form of an eclectic blanket, as I will be sleeping inside the vehicle.


So does anyone have any advise? What am I missing or doing wrong?

That's mostly how I run a similar setup. The second battery (under the hood) runs "house" tasks like the fridge and most of the charging equipment, and is isolated from the "truck" battery that handles the engine and any driving accessories. Lights, the winch, etc. The third (Bluetti, but similar to yours) is in the cargo area as just some extra power storage—charge the laptop, drone, etc., without having to have the car running. That way I'm not asking the house battery to charge a laptop and potentially draw it down enough that it can't keep the fridge running overnight.

I also have a 100W panel on the roof pushing charge into the house battery. I just went with Slee's recs on the second battery, and it's not large enough to keep a fridge going in a hot desert (in a black truck) for more than 8-9 hours. Being as it's super sunny here, 100W is more than enough, but you can't totally rely on it. I lived for a month in 2020 out of the truck at/near Olympic NP and probably saw one day of good sun. It also reduces the amount of usable roof rack space, so in that way it's a bit annoying.

The National Luna isolator is what I used under the hood, but there are several good options. Blue Sea, Redarc, etc. That'll top the batteries under the hood anytime you're moving.

Last, for long camps (or when I just feel like working with an ocean in view) I snagged a Noco dual charger and just strapped it between the airbox and the headlight. Noco also have a surface mount 120V plug wired I wired into the bumper. (Noco GENM2 and GCP1.)So solar, shore power, and alternator as sources. Complicated to do all at once, but I just built it a little at a time according to need.

Picture was from doing radiator work, ignore the hoses.

 

[TreatSmash]

That's mostly how I run a similar setup. The second battery (under the hood) runs "house" tasks like the fridge and most of the charging equipment, and is isolated from the "truck" battery that handles the engine and any driving accessories. Lights, the winch, etc. The third (Bluetti, but similar to yours) is in the cargo area as just some extra power storage—charge the laptop, drone, etc., without having to have the car running. That way I'm not asking the house battery to charge a laptop and potentially draw it down enough that it can't keep the fridge running overnight.

I also have a 100W panel on the roof pushing charge into the house battery. I just went with Slee's recs on the second battery, and it's not large enough to keep a fridge going in a hot desert (in a black truck) for more than 8-9 hours. Being as it's super sunny here, 100W is more than enough, but you can't totally rely on it. I lived for a month last year out of the truck at/near Olympic NP and probably saw one day of good sun. It also reduces the amount of usable roof rack space, so in that way it's a bit annoying.

The National Luna isolator is what I used under the hood, but there are several good options. Blue Sea, Redarc, etc. That'll top the batteries under the hood anytime you're moving.

Last, for long camps (or when I just feel like working with an ocean in view) I snagged a Noco dual charger and just strapped it between the airbox and the headlight. Noco also have a surface mount 120V plug wired I wired into the bumper. (Noco GENM2 and GCP1.)So solar, shore power, and alternator as sources. Complicated to do all at once, but I just built it a little at a time according to need.


View attachment 2901485
Picture was from doing radiator work, ignore the hoses.

Awesome, so I am on the right track. I guess the big question is do I charge the Goal Zero from the Starter battery or the house battery? and why?

 

[saucebox]

Awesome, so I am on the right track. I guess the big question is do I charge the Goal Zero from the Starter battery or the house battery? and why?

Feels like either/or, depending on how you use it. If you're parked up for a few days, I'd be a little hesitant to wire it to the starter battery. I've tried to keep it to where if everything goes to hell on the house battery, I can still start and operate the truck as normal. Maybe that's a bit overkill (starter battery has a much larger capacity as a Group 31), but it's worked so far. I think most of the dual battery management systems will allow an override (connect both batteries even when the engine isn't running).

"House" in my case just has a couple of big cables running to the cargo area to a fuse block, then distribution to more appropriately sized wires from there.

 

[TreatSmash]

Feels like either/or, depending on how you use it. If you're parked up for a few days, I'd be a little hesitant to wire it to the starter battery. I've tried to keep it to where if everything goes to hell on the house battery, I can still start and operate the truck as normal. Maybe that's a bit overkill (starter battery has a much larger capacity as a Group 31), but it's worked so far. I think most of the dual battery management systems will allow an override (connect both batteries even when the engine isn't running).

"House" in my case just has a couple of big cables running to the cargo area to a fuse block, then distribution to more appropriately sized wires from there.

Thanks man, this was I think the last bit of info I couldn't glean from the internet before I start getting my hands dirty.

 

[saucebox]

Thanks man, this was I think the last bit of info I couldn't glean from the internet before I start getting my hands dirty.

Good luck!

 

[llewdis]

My understanding is to put the house power if lithium ion in the back and not in a hot engine compartment. I have the slee for my 200 and love it though I am not running lithium.

 

[TreatSmash]

My understanding is to put the house power if lithium ion in the back and not in a hot engine compartment. I have the slee for my 200 and love it though I am not running lithium.

Correct, this will be a 3 battery set up, two lead in the front and lithium in the back.

 

[LandLocked93]

Correct, this will be a 3 battery set up, two lead in the front and lithium in the back.

If I may boldly posit...treat the GZ as an accessory. Use it as designed.
Like anything electric, it plugs in to renew.
In that sense, consider what you have to be a dual batt setup.
Which is to say that the start batt and alternator paths must be be preserved apart from everything added.
A dash-switched relay of sufficient amperage can conveniently accomplish this task.

 

[cruiserpilot]

What is your vehicle? Second, if you are truly going long haul, living on the road then I’d suggest a deeper
thought process. Independence with solar - start at the top and work your way down. I’ll post a reference site I’ve used. I’m working on a portable solar solution but perhaps a solid mount panel would work best, depending on vehicle and roof top availability.

Mobile Solar Power: Made Easy! DIY Off-grid Solar Power!

Building a vehicle mounted solar power system? Let me help.

www.mobile-solarpower.com

I keep factory truck things on the main battery. Anything else, fridge, lights, winches charging devices on second battery. Suggest looking at National Luna as a example. From South Africa but top of the line quality.

Battery Manager DIY kit - National Luna - South Africa

The National Luna DIY kit is a collection of all the parts you will need to complete a typical dual-battery installation (excluding battery). The kit includes cable, lugs, screws and other parts which are typically used in dual-battery systems. A full instruction booklet is included in the kit...

www.nationalluna.com

For connections look at Anderson plugs for clean, problem free long term use. I have isolator switch for my winches so they don’t receive any power until I need. Wiring lasts longer and eliminates troubleshooting when things go wrong. Keep every circuit identifiable so when you’re in the bush and something quits, it doesn’t take down the whole system. Don’t share power with two items and make sure everything has fuses that are quickly accessible and identifiable.
Hope this helps.

 

[LandLocked93]

ok so the questions. What should I connect to what? Fridge to house battery or goal zero? Goal zero to house battery or starter battery? Light bar?
Keep in kind the starter battery will be a group 31, but the house battery will be much smaller (34 maybe as big as will fit).

Let's attack this backwards.
How many on-demand ways - between the start batt, aux batt, and GZ - can you ensure 12V, 500+CCA to the starter at this moment in time?
Afterall, the point of going out is to return yeah?

My uneducated plan is to run the fridge and the lights off the 2nd battery, and charge the goal zero from the main battery in car mode.

No.
Charge the GZ off the 2nd batt like everything else. With a manually controlled binding schema, this preserves the start batt for it's job. Starting.
How often do you intend to run the engine on average?
What is your fossil fuel refresh scenario?

I can move the fridge to the GZ if I need to in a pinch,

Yes

but I don't want to get into the habit of plugging and unplugging everyday

No

I'll wind up forgetting.

Yes

I will likely be moving a lot. the goal zero can charge to full in 2-3 hours of travel with car adapter. The goal zero will be my day to day living battery for my laptop and phone and 100 other things that need charging,

100 other things??? Blyme what a stress.

also my primary source of heat in the form of an eclectic blanket, as I will be sleeping inside the vehicle.

Ahhh electric heat. Ok...

So does anyone have any advise? What am I missing or doing wrong?

Heat by electric is a yuge amp draw. Minimize that as much as possible.

 

[TreatSmash]

Let's attack this backwards.
How many on-demand ways - between the start batt, aux batt, and GZ - can you ensure 12V, 500+CCA to the starter at this moment in time?
Afterall, the point of going out is to return yeah?

No.
Charge the GZ off the 2nd batt like everything else. With a manually controlled binding schema, this preserves the start batt for it's job. Starting.
How often do you intend to run the engine on average?
What is your fossil fuel refresh scenario?


Yes

No

Yes

100 other things??? Blyme what a stress.

Ahhh electric heat. Ok...

Heat by electric is a yuge amp draw. Minimize that as much as possible.

I called and talked to the reps from Goal Zero and Redarc and both agreed that the Goal Zero should be charged from the starter battery. The car charging kit charges at 500-700w per hour and the Redarc DC/DC charger can't keep up with those rates to the house battery. It would prematurely burn out the Redarc charger.

I pretty much have everything sorted now, spent about 20 hours this weekend working on it and made a YT video of the effort.

Anyone in this thread can have a preview.

 

[LandLocked93]

The vid is good watch. lol Everything looks good.
I'd still be wary of risking draining your start battery to charge the GZ. I get what RedArc and GZ are saying with regard to the charge rates of the GZ (although it really makes me wonder what GZ was thinking), but those rates should be pretty short lived as the GZ goes from dead flat to fully charged. I'd imagine at any charge level between those two, the charge rates will be half or less than the full-boogie 700W.
lol I still say kill your Aux batt before you kill your start batt (when not burning fuel).
And otherwise be sure you can bind the front batts to start the truck to recharge the start batt should it get drained by the GZ in the setup encouraged by GZ. (RedArc simply agrees it's unit is not built to run at full capacity to provide operating power to anything. It is built to charge a battery using a charge profile that varies everything it does)
Happy trails!

 

[TreatSmash]

The vid is good watch. lol Everything looks good.
I'd still be wary of risking draining your start battery to charge the GZ. I get what RedArc and GZ are saying with regard to the charge rates of the GZ (although it really makes me wonder what GZ was thinking), but those rates should be pretty short lived as the GZ goes from dead flat to fully charged. I'd imagine at any charge level between those two, the charge rates will be half or less than the full-boogie 700W.
lol I still say kill your Aux batt before you kill your start batt (when not burning fuel).
And otherwise be sure you can bind the front batts to start the truck to recharge the start batt should it get drained by the GZ in the setup encouraged by GZ. (RedArc simply agrees it's unit is not built to run at full capacity to provide operating power to anything. It is built to charge a battery using a charge profile that varies everything it does)
Happy trails!

I have the 2000w GZ so in theory it could spend 3-4 hours a day charging. Especially if I use that electric blanket

I hear you though and I went back and forth, in fact the interior layout and cable run works much better for me off the house battery! But at the end of the day I have a group 31, the GZ has protections in place, and the "experts" seemed to be in agreement so I am going off the starter.

Thank you for watching the vid, I am hoping someone spots something I may have messed up on so they can set me straight.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Not sure what Redarc charger you have as I didn't see it mentioned.
The advice you got from Redarc and GZ to use the starter battery for charging was correct, IMHO.

I have a GZ 1500X and a Redarc 1225D charging a 2nd Odyssey Extreme 35-PC1400 AGM battery. NO WAY would I charge the GZ 1500X using GZ's car charger from the 2nd battery as the car mode does not current limit and will draw a full ~600W to charge the GZ. Connecting the GZ car charger in my case would fry the 1225D Redarc Charger. GZ's car charger can be set up to stop charging based on battery voltage so draining your starter battery shouldn't be an issue. So, due to current draw, putting it on the starter battery to draw off the alternator is correct.

Note that this isn't what I did as GZ's car charger wasn't ready/available when I got my 1500X. The route I went was with a Victron 12-24 15 charger set up in power supply mode. It charges at its maximum rate of 360W and I run it off the starter battery even though I could run it off the 2nd battery as the Redarc could keep up with this reduced current draw. The Victron will not charge as fast as the GZ car charger but I'm able to fine tune the Victron so that it stops charging within seconds of turning off the engine. This setup has worked really well for me to road-charge a GZ 1500X running a Dometic 75L dual zone refrigerator.

 

[TreatSmash]

Not sure what Redarc charger you have as I didn't see it mentioned.
The advice you got from Redarc and GZ to use the starter battery for charging was correct, IMHO.

I have a GZ 1500X and a Redarc 1225D charging a 2nd Odyssey Extreme 35-PC1400 AGM battery. NO WAY would I charge the GZ 1500X using GZ's car charger from the 2nd battery as the car mode does not current limit and will draw a full ~600W to charge the GZ. Connecting the GZ car charger in my case would fry the 1225D Redarc Charger. GZ's car charger can be set up to stop charging based on battery voltage so draining your starter battery shouldn't be an issue. So, due to current draw, putting it on the starter battery to draw off the alternator is correct.

Note that this isn't what I did as GZ's car charger wasn't ready/available when I got my 1500X. The route I went was with a Victron 12-24 15 charger set up in power supply mode. It charges at its maximum rate of 360W and I run it off the starter battery even though I could run it off the 2nd battery as the Redarc could keep up with this reduced current draw. The Victron will not charge as fast as the GZ car charger but I'm able to fine tune the Victron so that it stops charging within seconds of turning off the engine. This setup has worked really well for me to road-charge a GZ 1500X running a Dometic 75L dual zone refrigerator.

I have the same models, the GZ1500 and the Redarc 1225D. My starter is a Odyssey Extreme ODX-AGM31M and the house is the Odyssey Extreme ODX-AGM34M.

The biggest problem I have left is routing the GZ car charger cable through my firewall as it has a huge plastic knob on both ends.

​

 

[FrazzledHunter]

I have the same models, the GZ1500 and the Redarc 1225D. My starter is a Odyssey Extreme ODX-AGM31M and the house is the Odyssey Extreme ODX-AGM34M.

The biggest problem I have left is routing the GZ car charger cable through my firewall as it has a huge plastic knob on both ends.

​

I routed 6GA wire to a Blue Sea 50A fuse inside the engine compartment. Then from there a 6GA wire through the firewall to an Anderson SB-50 connector strapped under the dash on the driver's side. The negative went to the chassis. Once that was done I covered the firewall grommet with silicone seal. It was literally a piece of cake. Try connecting GZ's wiring via a SB-50. That's what I would do.

I'll probably put something similar on the passenger's side off the 2nd battery as I have plans for for items like dash cams, extra charging ports etc...

BTW, I have charged the GZ from the 2nd battery with the engine running and off. I'm able to fine tune the Victron charger for the different voltages in each of 4 cases: off the starter battery engine running & off, the 2nd battery engine running & off.

 

[LandLocked93]

Not sure what Redarc charger you have as I didn't see it mentioned.
The advice you got from Redarc and GZ to use the starter battery for charging was correct, IMHO.

I have a GZ 1500X and a Redarc 1225D charging a 2nd Odyssey Extreme 35-PC1400 AGM battery. NO WAY would I charge the GZ 1500X using GZ's car charger from the 2nd battery as the car mode does not current limit and will draw a full ~600W to charge the GZ. Connecting the GZ car charger in my case would fry the 1225D Redarc Charger. GZ's car charger can be set up to stop charging based on battery voltage so draining your starter battery shouldn't be an issue. So, due to current draw, putting it on the starter battery to draw off the alternator is correct.

Note that this isn't what I did as GZ's car charger wasn't ready/available when I got my 1500X. The route I went was with a Victron 12-24 15 charger set up in power supply mode. It charges at its maximum rate of 360W and I run it off the starter battery even though I could run it off the 2nd battery as the Redarc could keep up with this reduced current draw. The Victron will not charge as fast as the GZ car charger but I'm able to fine tune the Victron so that it stops charging within seconds of turning off the engine. This setup has worked really well for me to road-charge a GZ 1500X running a Dometic 75L dual zone refrigerator.

So it seems that these large GZ units are intended to be charged by either burning fuel or plugging in to the grid (home power)?
I thought their whole schtick was renewable power storage via solar regen.
Grid and/or alternator charging kinda goes against that, yeah?

 

[FrazzledHunter]

So it seems that these large GZ units are intended to be charged by either burning fuel or plugging in to the grid (home power)?
I thought their whole schtick was renewable power storage via solar regen.
Grid and/or alternator charging kinda goes against that, yeah?

This is the great fallacy of electric cars, IMHO but that's a whole other discussion.
The GZ units off er various charging units to charge the units at greater or lesser rates.
The wall charger that comes with the 1500X is rated at 120W.
They also sell a wall unit that charges at the rate of 600W which is great if you have a Honda 1000i generator.

Being able to charge a GZ while the car is running an alternator capable of 180A is a huge win for efficiency.
So why not do it at the rate of 600W as you're running the car anyway?

I do have Merlin Solar panels which can charge the GZ at the rate of 170W in full sun.
At that rate we can run our fridge, ventilating fan and camp lighting indefinitely.
But that assumes full sun. YMMV.