No spark (2 Viewers)

[RMR]

Hello fellow mudh8ers! I have tried to research and read every thread that I can find on the forum. But I just can’t seem to find exactly what’s going on with my 60.
About 5 months ago, I noticed between 2&3 gear my 60 would start to hesitate when accelerating. However, it wouldn’t start doing this until about 15-20min worth of driving. Sure enough, the other day when I came back out of the store, the engine would turn over but wouldn’t start. I tried starter fluid and nothing. No fuel in the carb…so I got it towed home. I started researching and decided it sounds like the fuel pump was the main cause. So, I ordered a new one and put it in with no problems. Also put in a new fuel filter. Now whenever I’m pumping on the gas to get fuel nothing is happening. No fuel in the filter at all. I followed the specific instructions on how to install the fuel pump. But I am at a loss. I have blown a little bit of air through the lines to see if they’re clogged. There is plenty of fuel in the tank. I guess the thing that’s throwing me off is with starter fluid if it was the pump the engine should have started and died right. Any help and/or advice would be much appreciated yours truly - I got no ride!

 

[OSS]

If the engine won’t start in the usual way after shutting down after a good drive then attempting to start it again a few minutes later, (after stopping at a store) it could be because it’s a hot start and the manifold is a bit too hot - and the engine got flooded from trying to start it incorrectly.

If the manifold/carburetor fan doesn’t turn on after shutting down — the engine will definitely start differently and take longer to start.
Spraying starting fluid into the carburetor will only make things worse in this instance because the engine fuel mixture is already too rich (it’s flooded).

I bet — when your cruiser wouldn’t start at the store when it was hot, the engine got flooded from pumping the gas pedal - and the more you do that, the worse the problem gets.

A hot start should be done without pumping the gas pedal. Just press it down all the way once (slowly)and hold the gas pedal to the floor.
Then crank over the starter and keep cranking while pedal is still on the floor (not pumping) until the engine catches.

If the engine was piping hot and you stopped at the store for a while (especially if the carburetor fan is inop) - gasoline isn’t going to be easy to see in the sight glass when you come back out to the car.
The only time fuel can be seen in the sight glass at mid point is when the engine is running.

The fuel pump sucks fuel from the tank. It pulls it up from the tank. There’s a negative pressure in the fuel line as it’s pulling gas to the pump.

If there’s a leak in the feed line anywhere from the gasoline in the tank to the filter, the pump is going to pull in air too. Those bubbles will accumulate in the fuel filter and displace the gasoline in the outer portion of the filter housing. Eventually it’ll look like the filter is dry because there’s mostly air in it - because bubbles are accumulating in it.
Blowing back the through the fuel line with air won’t identify a leak in the feed line.

Try starting the engine differently when it’s hot. Don’t pump the gas pedal and don’t use the choke.
Pedal to the floor - then crank.

 

[g-man]

See if you have gas in the sight window at the front of the carb. It should be 1/2 full. You may need a flashlight and sorta rock or bump the fendet to shake it..in order to see the fuel. If you have fuel in the bowl then you don't need a fuel pump or gas in the tank for it to start. the problem is in the carb. Points to issues that OSS has covered...ie flooding.

If you have low fuel in the sight glass and low or no fuel in the filter. I think your next step is remove the fuel line from the carb (17mm) wrench here. And while someone cranks the ignition another holds a glass jar at the fuel line to catch whatever comes out. If you do this, you can pull the plug wire off the coil so the motor doesn't start. No need to choke or pump the gas pedal. You're just cranking or turning the motor so the fuel pump will pump fuel to the jar.

If you don't pump fuel you have narrowed down the problem to the fuel lines/tank/or you put the fuel pump in wrong. Could be trash in the fuel tank clogging the pick up filter. Or an empty tank but your fuel gauge is broken???

 

[g-man]

If you sprayed starter fluid in the carb and it didn't catch...you need to start thinking about all that makes a motor run. Compression check, look at the plugs make sure they are not fouled. ,make sure they are throwing spark. if your coil is bad then none of them will get spark. I would think a coil dying wouldn't happen like you described though. Is your battery charged and you're turning your motor fast enough to make good compression? Beyond that is timing and air. Rare that these are off, but they will affect starting too.

 

[4runner2FJ60]

You might want to double check the fuel pump install......It is easy to miss the pump spacer or possibly have two on there? You might want to look down thru the top fuel sender hole in the tank to check the gas and see if there is anything floating around in there. I found a stick in mine! Probably someone trying to check the fuel level?
Its the round access door in the middle area of the bed, inside the back of the truck.

 

[RMR]

Thanks for the feed back everyone.
@OSS - you’re definitely correct about the hot start. I am aware of this. So anytime the engine is warmed up I never pump on the gas pedal it usually just starts right up which is what I did this day. The issue that I’m having right now is that I’m not getting any fuel to the fuel filter or the carb or anywhere for that matter.

I pulled the fuel tank access from the rear and looked into the tank, there is plenty of fuel and I didn’t see anything floating in there. I have checked the lines for leaks but have found none…

I agree about the fuel pump, maybe I didn’t install it correctly so I will take a look at that as well.

I have new spark plugs installed. Once I get the fuel problem sorted out and if it still doesn’t start I will check for spark.

Am I missing anything else? Would the primary reason there is no fuel in the fuel filter (and the carb for that matter) be because of the fuel pump?

After I reinstall the fuel pump and if it still won’t start, I’ll take some pics and video and post them.

Thanks guys!

 

[4runner2FJ60]

Have you tried blowing air thru the fuel lines? So no fuel in the little filter on the PS fender? Did you install the spacer on the new fuel pump? I cringe thinking that without it the peddle inside could break off and be inside crank area........that would cause the pump not to pump. Fingers crossed that is not it.

 

[RMR]

Thanks for the info @4runner2FJ60 I will double check to make sure the spacer is there. When I removed the old one it didn't look like there was one there, unless its just covered up with gunk. But, I did order a spacer so if there wasn't one their originally, I assume I should install the spacer?

 

[OSS]

The fuel pump spacer is a thin wafer. It looks like it’s a part of the engine block. Red arrow in picture below is pointing at it.
When a fuel pump is removed, normally the spacer is firmly stuck on the block. If yours is still there, continue using it. Don’t chisel it off just to apply another one.

 

[RMR]

 

[2mbb]

I didn't see where you checked for fuel in the carburetor bowl sight glass. If you don't see gas in the bowl, then you can disconnect the fuel line to the carburetor, crank the engine and see if fuel comes out. try and collect the fuel so it doesn't spill all over the place. Get someone to help you if you can.

If you have gas in carburetor, then you should confirm you also have spark, etc.

If you don't have fuel delivery, go back to the pump and make sure it is connected properly. You can also disconnect the discharge line from the pump and crank the engine and see if any gas comes out. connect a hose to the supply port and feed from a can of gas to see if the pump is working at all.

If you do all this testing with pumping gas around, be really careful not to spill too much and make sure you don't have any sparking going on in the vicinity. You don't want to have an engine fire...

 

[g-man]

2x make sure you have the inlet and outlet lines correct on the fuel pump. If you think you have a faulty pump you can test it like this:

 

[RMR]

Thanks everyone for your input, I went back uninstalled and reinstalled the new fuel pump everything looks good as far as I can tell it’s installed correctly and the spacer is there. I checked all fuel lines, no leaks. I checked the rear access to the fuel tank, doesn’t look like anything is blocking it. Still no fuel at fuel filter or carb for that matter. Fuel filter is literally bone dry…any other ideas? Thanks!

 

[OSS]

The standard fuel filter can look dry but the pump can still be pulling fuel through it.
At this point, I would be good to verify with absolute certainty that the pump is pumping gasoline from the tank through the filter.
To do that, the metal fuel line nut screwing into the carburetor is loosened and the fuel line pipe fed to a cup. Then the engine is cranked over for a while continuously and it’s observed if and how fast the fuel flows from the pump.

There’s been more than a few threads in the past where people have commented that their fuel filter is dry - but the engine still runs fine.
Once the filter gets the tiniest film on it, air doesn’t pass through it easily and it just collects in the outer housing of the filter.

 

[g-man]

^^^ THIS...like I mentioned earlier. AND catch it with a clear mason jar. Not only to let you know the pump is working but also to inspect the condition of the fuel. Let the fuel settle for a minute or two and inspect it to make sure there is no water in the fuel. If you have water in the fuel, it will look cloudy at first and will settle to the bottom of the jar in a minute or two. Clean fuel will not look cloudy. With water the motor will NOT start. And will initially show as power loss and hesitation as I think you described.

 

[g-man]

And you used a Kyosan pump? Not some aftermarket junk? Did you make sure the lever will move?

 

[RMR]

Thanks guys, I will try the fuel line test at the carb next. The new pump is a Kyosan. Having water in the fuel lines would make sense from the problems I was having… I wonder how water would’ve gotten in the fuel lines of that is the case…will know shortly. Thanks again!

 

[OSS]

I wonder how water would’ve gotten in the fuel lines if that is the case

-If- there’s water in the fuel, it gets in there from condensation forming in the tank on the walls that aren’t submerged in fuel.
For all vehicles that aren’t driven much, the gas tank should be kept full or near full to prevent condensation (and water eventually contaminating the gas)

 

[RMR]

Ok, I have fuel at the filter and carb! But, still will not start…I guess it’s time to check spark? What’s the easiest way to do that? I have read a few threads on it but this is uncharted territory for me.

 

[4runner2FJ60]

Congrats, glad to hear the pump is working. Ive always pulled a plug, held it near a ground on the block and had someone crank it real quick. You will know right away.