Wonder If removed ABS hurts the value of the FJZ80 Land Cruisers (1 Viewer)

[NLXTACY]

with ABS on a 80 ?

Dodge truck had its ABS removed. Crashed into my brother. I happened to own that car. Dodge’s insurance bounced on him after crash investigation/inspection. Bodily injury was involved.

Im not getting into much more because it’s still pending.

Basically the thing my own insurance guy back in CA warned me about, happened. Luckily against the other guy.

 

[Kernal]

Interesting.


Edited to keep it tech

 

[LandLocked93]

Not that removing the ABS makes the truck not road legal, but this mod only seems appropriate for already not-road-legal rigs that originally came with ABS.
At which point it should make no diff to liability or resale value.
So good news, OP! You have the perfect excuse to build a bat-sh** crazy crawler on 50s! lol

 

[greentruck]

How much is a car that won’t stop worth? It’s a proven fact that as they age our brake systems suffer lesser and lesser performance and removing all that extra plumbing, thus simplifying the system, produces a firmer pedal that doesn’t sink to the floor before any appreciable stopping power is felt.

SNIP

I found the solution to crappy brakes was to simply rebuild my brakes. New calipers F + R, new rotors on the F (rears looked good, so didn't bother taking that apart and needing to deal with the emergency brakes), new soft lines to calipers F + R. Nothing ABS related as far as I could tell and stops way better.

If you want an ABS delete, that's your choice, but I'd be careful about basing an ABS delete on what very likely are just brakes needing overhaul. If all that's fixed and you still have issues, then follow the ABS test procedures outlined in the manual if they seem to fit. Otherwise find out what's really wrong with your brakes. It usually is not an ABS issue when your brakes act up.

 

[cruiserbrett]

NLXTACY, that explains the Out of stock on ABS delete kit you once offered?

Not that I would ever delete abs on a modern rig, but I especially don’t get the “craze” surrounding it. Especially some of the less well thought out lspv/abs delete plumbing solutions posted on Ih8mud.com that turned the system into a single circuit brake system.

 

[Grandlooser]

It seems a bit silly to put so much fear into that one system. We all seem fine with adding 50% tire weight, 20% tire diameter, 600lbs of crap, 4 inches of ride height change, different track width, altered radius arm geometry, altered sway bar geometry, altered spring rates, altered dampening, altered gear ratios...on and on and on. I guess I understand the legal end of things, but ins. Companies must be drunk if they see a 6" lifted truck on 40's with 1000 pounds added to it that has crashed and say "look here Sam, it was the deleted ABS that caused this loss of control"

 

[DivByZero]

This is one advantage of the over-legislation of things in Australia. Removing the ABS system from a car here would make it no longer road worthy. It wouldn't pass yearly inspection, and I couldn't insure it or register it to drive on the roads until it was rectified. Simply put, safety features that were provided on a vehicle at the time of manufacture must be present and working. It doesn't matter if they were optional. Likewise, safety features which weren't present at the time of manufacture don't need to be added. I can drive a vintage car with no seatbelts at 110km/h on the highway, no problem. For a modern vehicle though, I need to make sure the seatbelts, ABS, airbags, etc are all working correctly to the best of my knowledge, and in most states, I need to get a yearly inspection by a mechanic to specifically look for problems that aren't immediately evident. This makes the situation very clear, there isn't much grey area.

Insurance companies don't care about accuracy or truth, they care about making money and keeping that money. If they can find a technicality to justify not handing over a big wad of cash, they'll do it. I actually appreciate the laws here being explicit in this area, as you know where you stand with pretty much any modification, even if most of the rules are arbitrary and downright silly in some cases.

 

[on the rocks]

I don't get this thread. For one its old, it is a question about value depreciation on removing an ABS system. Nothing to do with insurance, the inability to work on your 80 safely and the ability for someone that has no common sense to work on a braking system. If you have no clue and ability to read countless pages of posts here on how to remove your faulty and outdated ABS system then, yes t will depreciate your 80's value when you screw it up and kill someone. Otherwise it's well documented the 80 came without ABS and works great ok with and without. If your adding 110-140lb per wheel and tire combo and 1500lbs of weight to an already heavy vehicle then why in the world would you not want to upgrade your braking system? And if you do your homework and do it properly how would it ever depreciate the value of your 80?
I have upgraded to a 6 piston caliper on the fronts and can stop 30' shorter on a 40-0 stop than I could with a much lighter vehicle and stock system. When the ABS takes a crap I will without a doubt remove it and likely before it gets there, On top of that I will likely remove the dated LSPV and booster while I'm at it. If I do it right and don't kill someone then I'm pretty sure it won't kill the value on my 80. If I screw it up and stop 100' worse than before, have brake fluid leaking everywhere then try to sell it then I will probably lose money on a quick sell.

 

[Tachycardic]

It seems a bit silly to put so much fear into that one system. We all seem fine with adding 50% tire weight, 20% tire diameter, 600lbs of crap, 4 inches of ride height change, different track width, altered radius arm geometry, altered sway bar geometry, altered spring rates, altered dampening, altered gear ratios...on and on and on. I guess I understand the legal end of things, but ins. Companies must be drunk if they see a 6" lifted truck on 40's with 1000 pounds added to it that has crashed and say "look here Sam, it was the deleted ABS that caused this loss of control"

Sure, try explaining that to the insurance company and/or a lawyer. You can convince yourself that an ABS delete is not a big deal--until it is. Removing a standard safety feature and then getting into a wreck is just making their jobs easier. And, I would expect anyone, and everyone, to sue ending if they ended up in a wreck and found out that the other vehicle's standard safety feature was intentionally removed and/or they were over the GVWR. Not trying to scare you or anyone--just trying to tell you that them vampires will try to suck you dry if you put yourself in such a position.

 

[Grandlooser]

Well if the insurance boogy man don't get ya the cancer will. I'll be over here livin' on the edge with my non ABS truck that actually brakes in the winter.

 

[greentruck]

Well if the insurance boogy man don't get ya the cancer will. I'll be over here livin' on the edge with my non ABS truck that actually brakes in the winter.

Our 80 brakes in the winter just fine. You do have to adjust your driving habits some with ABS, depending on how they were to start with. True, stomping on ABS brakes hard will result in suboptimal performance in winter, but that's not how you're supposed to use them. Be gentle and they will likely serve you well. In case this doesn't mesh with your experience, here's a short intro:

 

[Broski]

OK folks, FWIW most all the common modifications that we do to our trucks increase liability. and if your in accident in your wife's bone stock Subaru your most likely be sued. That being said it's just not a good idea to modify a vehicle for off road then use it for a DD.
I looked into this modifying your vehicle insurance issue ( I suggest anyone concerned do the same) and they can't deny your claim based on the fact you modifying your vehicle. Look at it this way if you have a few Beers ( you have removed a important safety feature, your ability safely operate the vehicle) and get into a wreck insurance still pays. when the smoke clears are you look for a new high risk insurance policy, you bet.
I was told the only way you insurance can be denied is if you use the vehicle in a crime like robbing a bank or smuggling drugs. Again everyone should do there own due diligence.
More importantly you should look at you insurance policy most state required policy won't cover a little finder bender.
If you have any Kind of net worth you need a minimum of 300k on each Car and a million dollar umbrella, and in today's world that's probably not enough.
And if you have a highly modified 4x4 play it safe and tow it to the trail, Just sayin

 

[Grandlooser]

That's a funny looking lifted 80 on 35's

 

[UsedLuxury]

ABS? Is that some kind of nanny product like airbags? Just tell whoever buys it to suck it up and die like a man.

 

[jaymar]

What if after reinstalling the system you don't sufficiently bleed it or kink one of the lines and the end result is the same? I hate "what ifs" because you can always keep going with it. Every day you wake up the world is against you. Don't sweat the petty and don't pet the sweaty.

That's accidental, making criminal liability less likely.

 

[jaymar]

It seems a bit silly to put so much fear into that one system. We all seem fine with adding 50% tire weight, 20% tire diameter, 600lbs of crap, 4 inches of ride height change, different track width, altered radius arm geometry, altered sway bar geometry, altered spring rates, altered dampening, altered gear ratios...on and on and on. I guess I understand the legal end of things, but ins. Companies must be drunk if they see a 6" lifted truck on 40's with 1000 pounds added to it that has crashed and say "look here Sam, it was the deleted ABS that caused this loss of control"

If that's the easiest/fastest way for them to bail, I can see that. Another thousand pounds is still within factory cargo capacity, so no dice there. Tire size and lift are messy arguments. Deleted brake safety equipment? Slam-dunk.

 

[Grandlooser]

Again, from a legal standpoint I agree. I have so much to worry about in life already that I wish I had room to care about such things. I just don't. We all have our own anxiety placements in life so I don't really judge too much.

 

[jaymar]

OK folks, FWIW most all the common modifications that we do to our trucks increase liability. and if your in accident in your wife's bone stock Subaru your most likely be sued. That being said it's just not a good idea to modify a vehicle for off road then use it for a DD.
I looked into this modifying your vehicle insurance issue ( I suggest anyone concerned do the same) and they can't deny your claim based on the fact you modifying your vehicle. Look at it this way if you have a few Beers ( you have removed a important safety feature, your ability safely operate the vehicle) and get into a wreck insurance still pays. when the smoke clears are you look for a new high risk insurance policy, you bet.
I was told the only way you insurance can be denied is if you use the vehicle in a crime like robbing a bank or smuggling drugs. Again everyone should do there own due diligence.
More importantly you should look at you insurance policy most state required policy won't cover a little finder bender.
If you have any Kind of net worth you need a minimum of 300k on each Car and a million dollar umbrella, and in today's world that's probably not enough.
And if you have a highly modified 4x4 play it safe and tow it to the trail, Just sayin

Some good points there--but as with those "few beers," you may well find yourself (insurance aside) on the ass end of a criminal prosecution. Think of it this way: You don't like the annoying little chirps your smoke detectors make when the batteries run low, so you take out the batteries. Or maybe there's a sprinkler system and the pipes make funny noises, so you rip them out. House burns down, maybe people die. Your insurer may or may not walk away from that, legally speaking. You will not. Just sayin'...

 

[Broski]

Some good points there--but as with those "few beers," you may well find yourself (insurance aside) on the ass end of a criminal prosecution. Think of it this way: You don't like the annoying little chirps your smoke detectors make when the batteries run low, so you take out the batteries. Or maybe there's a sprinkler system and the pipes make funny noises, so you rip them out. House burns down, maybe people die. Your insurer may or may not walk away from that, legally speaking. You will not. Just sayin'...

Safest bet. JUST DON"T DRIVE

 

[VivaToy]

What's always strange to me reading these threads is that ABS is almost always removed when a braking issue presents itself. Instead of resolving the braking issue, the owner removes the entire system. I'm unsure as to why more people don't diagnose and solve the braking issue first. There hasn't been compelling (any) evidence to suggest a properly functioning brake system without ABS actually operates BETTER than a properly functioning brake system with ABS.