Is it death wobble? (1 Viewer)

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Again, want to shout out to Mud. You guys are awesome, and an amazing resource for someone who is interested in all of this but has almost no baseline knowledge to work from. Great community!
 
Again, want to shout out to Mud. You guys are awesome, and an amazing resource for someone who is interested in all of this but has almost no baseline knowledge to work from. Great community!
Now.....How much of this are YOU gonna chase down.

You know you want to.
 
Now.....How much of this are YOU gonna chase down.

You know you want to.
Well, I’d be more inclined after I work out the registration issues on my E46 M3 (yeah, I’ve got my dream stable with just these two vehicles) and have another DD ready… that’ll be a few weeks though, at which point I’ll be more able to do things like disassemble front steering and suspension components, which would otherwise leave me temporarily stranded.

I’m just a lawyer living in the Dallas burbs whose parents always paid for oil changes rather than do them themselves, so I’ve pretty much always got limited time to wrench, and have only been learning this stuff intermittently when there’s a problem over the last couple of years. I love it, and find it immensely satisfying, but a lot of stuff people talk about on here is simply out of my league for now…
 
Well, I’d be more inclined after I work out the registration issues on my E46 M3 (yeah, I’ve got my dream stable with just these two vehicles) and have another DD ready… that’ll be a few weeks though, at which point I’ll be more able to do things like disassemble front steering and suspension components, which would otherwise leave me temporarily stranded.

I’m just a lawyer living in the Dallas burbs whose parents always paid for oil changes rather than do them themselves, so I’ve pretty much always got limited time to wrench, and have only been learning this stuff intermittently when there’s a problem over the last couple of years. I love it, and find it immensely satisfying, but a lot of stuff people talk about on here is simply out of my league for now…
That's because you speak too much Latin......
 
New tires are on order and should hopefully be in in another month (going to 315/75R-16s), and will definitely get those balanced before going on, of course. I’ll try to remember to ask them about rim straightness (are we still doing phrasing?)
Just don't ask "How much for a Rim Job?" and you'll be fine.
 
Hi all, here with another potentially dumb question, because I am not actually mechanically literate (see username).

From what I've been reading about death wobble, it tends to happen when you hit a bump, or occasionally on sharp stabs of the brakes?

The problem that I've been having is that if I get it up over about 45 mph, then pretty regularly when I brake down back through that same range (about 50-40 mph or so), even when braking smoothly, it still sometimes starts the steering wheel shimmy and the whole front end gets squirrely. It's usually pretty mild or even absent, but on too many occasions recently it is getting semi-violent and very unnerving. I'm not sure if that is "death wobble" exactly, or another problem. Also, I've read that death wobble is usually countered by braking harder, whereas my problem seems to get better if I let off the brakes, then get back on them again, though it sometimes takes 2-3 off-and-ons to stop it happening. This scares the crap out of my girlfriend if the reason we are stopping is because there is another car stopped in front of us...

So does that sound like a typical case of death wobble in an 80? Or is it something else? I've fairly recently (recently enough that this shouldn't be a problem) had tie rod ends redone, and no other steering or suspension issues were noted by the shop at the time. The only thing I can easily notice underneath is that the boots/bushings/whatever on the ends of the straight rod that goes across behind the front axle (I do not know the name of this rod/bar thingy, so please feel free to enlighten me) appear to be crushed on one side and possibly oriented on somewhat different angles... see attached pictures for the left (first pic) and right (second pic) of that observation...

Any ideas? If people are going to suggest checking things like panhards or other components, it would be really helpful to have a pic or description of where those are on the 80, since I haven't had great luck trying to find a breakdown of what and where all the components of the front axle are, and even if I did, I don't actually know what I'd be checking... Hell, I only just learned what a pitman arm is, and I'm still not entirely certain what it does (guess is just locating other components?).

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I didn't read all the posts, not because I'm lazy but more that I'm accustomed to seeing quality responses pertaining to subjects posted. But I will comment on the fact that the tie rod clamps in the above pictures are categorically in the wrong position. They both are 90* clocked out of position and will hit the radius arms and limit turning radius.

Now as far as the wobble issue, I'd first start by checking my toe adjustment. I set my toe with a tape measure and have recently been in conversation with a guy who had good caster numbers but a wondering or sorts. The print out from the alignment shop showed total toe top be negative. WTF, they left it that way.

I magnetically place 2-36" 3/4x3/4 angle iron on my front rotors so they are centered and level and adjust the tie rod so the tips of the front are 1/8" closer together than the rears.

HTH
 
Well, I’d be more inclined after I work out the registration issues on my E46 M3 (yeah, I’ve got my dream stable with just these two vehicles) and have another DD ready… that’ll be a few weeks though, at which point I’ll be more able to do things like disassemble front steering and suspension components, which would otherwise leave me temporarily stranded.

I’m just a lawyer living in the Dallas burbs whose parents always paid for oil changes rather than do them themselves, so I’ve pretty much always got limited time to wrench, and have only been learning this stuff intermittently when there’s a problem over the last couple of years. I love it, and find it immensely satisfying, but a lot of stuff people talk about on here is simply out of my league for now…


If you can pass the bar you can learn to fix anything on your cruiser!!!!👍
 
Hi all, here with another potentially dumb question, because I am not actually mechanically literate (see username).

From what I've been reading about death wobble, it tends to happen when you hit a bump, or occasionally on sharp stabs of the brakes?

The problem that I've been having is that if I get it up over about 45 mph, then pretty regularly when I brake down back through that same range (about 50-40 mph or so), even when braking smoothly, it still sometimes starts the steering wheel shimmy and the whole front end gets squirrely. It's usually pretty mild or even absent, but on too many occasions recently it is getting semi-violent and very unnerving. I'm not sure if that is "death wobble" exactly, or another problem. Also, I've read that death wobble is usually countered by braking harder, whereas my problem seems to get better if I let off the brakes, then get back on them again, though it sometimes takes 2-3 off-and-ons to stop it happening. This scares the crap out of my girlfriend if the reason we are stopping is because there is another car stopped in front of us...

So does that sound like a typical case of death wobble in an 80? Or is it something else? I've fairly recently (recently enough that this shouldn't be a problem) had tie rod ends redone, and no other steering or suspension issues were noted by the shop at the time. The only thing I can easily notice underneath is that the boots/bushings/whatever on the ends of the straight rod that goes across behind the front axle (I do not know the name of this rod/bar thingy, so please feel free to enlighten me) appear to be crushed on one side and possibly oriented on somewhat different angles... see attached pictures for the left (first pic) and right (second pic) of that observation...

Any ideas? If people are going to suggest checking things like panhards or other components, it would be really helpful to have a pic or description of where those are on the 80, since I haven't had great luck trying to find a breakdown of what and where all the components of the front axle are, and even if I did, I don't actually know what I'd be checking... Hell, I only just learned what a pitman arm is, and I'm still not entirely certain what it does (guess is just locating other components?).

View attachment 2674191

View attachment 2674192
I had this issue. Loose bolts front panhard and radius arm. Tightened and issue went away.
 
BILT had given you solid advice.

Also check front wheel bearings for play.
Easily overlooked, and if loose, this often shows up as a vibration or shake when braking.

The fact your vibration changes when you get off, then back on the brakes points to wheel bearings, but not conclusively.
 
Mine used to do the same after lift, front caster correction, adjustable front and rear pan hards and alignment fixed it. It doesn't appear from your pictures as if an of that was done on your rig. Hard to say though without better pictures. Steering shimmy could also be warped rotors.
 
I too suffered from death wobble. It was occasional, but occurred most frequently when I was slowing down as I exited on a highway ramp, or if I changed lanes and when over the lane Bott's dots at 50mph or higher.

I'm in the same situation as you--I have a day job that really needed clean hands. I mean, It's just not professional for my patient's to see my hands with stains and grease under my fingernails. So, before I started tearing into the front end, I checked the knuckle studs--and they were loose! I torqued them down appropriately and I have not had death wobble since. Not saying that you shouldn't check the other hardware as mentioned in earlier posts, but if you're low on time and/money, and don't want to get your hands too dirty, then check for wheel bearing play and those knuckle nuts first and go from there. Good luck!
 
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I didn't read all the posts, not because I'm lazy but more that I'm accustomed to seeing quality responses pertaining to subjects posted. But I will comment on the fact that the tie rod clamps in the above pictures are categorically in the wrong position. They both are 90* clocked out of position and will hit the radius arms and limit turning radius.

Now as far as the wobble issue, I'd first start by checking my toe adjustment. I set my toe with a tape measure and have recently been in conversation with a guy who had good caster numbers but a wondering or sorts. The print out from the alignment shop showed total toe top be negative. WTF, they left it that way.

I magnetically place 2-36" 3/4x3/4 angle iron on my front rotors so they are centered and level and adjust the tie rod so the tips of the front are 1/8" closer together than the rears.

HTH

So in the pictures from the initial post, is that the tie rod going behind the axle? If so, is the disparity between the boots and the bad angle of the tie rod probably a f*** up by the shop that did the tie rods?

also, if hitting the radius arms is a thing, would that explain a click from the front end when at full lock and going over any sort of slope change (like an angled driveway)? Because if so, you may have resolved a separate issue/concern… 😂
 
also, if hitting the radius arms is a thing, would that explain a click from the front end when at full lock and going over any sort of slope change (like an angled driveway)? Because if so, you may have resolved a separate issue/concern… 😂

Maybe, but a click in this situation is fairly common.
Could be worn out sway bar rubbers, or loose radius arm bolts at the axle housing or worn panhard bushes loose bolts etc
 
So in the pictures from the initial post, is that the tie rod going behind the axle? If so, is the disparity between the boots and the bad angle of the tie rod probably a f*** up by the shop that did the tie rods?

also, if hitting the radius arms is a thing, would that explain a click from the front end when at full lock and going over any sort of slope change (like an angled driveway)? Because if so, you may have resolved a separate issue/concern… 😂
You have Slee or a similar caster plate installed so the tie rod in general will contact the arms. However with the clamps clocked like that they are definitely hitting the arms and limiting travel.

When I adjust the tie rod I rotate the tie rod ends so they both tilt backwards at the ends so once clamped they are aligned.
 
The posts above have EXCELLENT advice. You have a 96, at 25 years, you should replace all bushings on the steering system and suspension anyway. Even if they look good, they are hard as nails. If it is the original stabilizer, replace it as well. If the TREs are original, just replace them. Also, check your steering knuckle studs and nuts and make sure they are tight. If you have DW, those forces are transferred to the knuckle arms and can cause them to loosen (they tend to loosen anyway and you should check them whenever you change your oil at a minimum). The pick below shows the studs. Most people don't like throwing money at parts but, this is the most perhaps the most important part of the vehicle behind the brakes. Besides, you do this and you are good for at least 10 years if you are using OEM parts. For the TREs, you can use the 555 brand (they are unpainted and need to be painted to prevent rust) and any reputable steering stabilizer will work.

Good luck!

1621209279158.png
 
Pics of a cracked panhard frame bracket and some ugly welding to glue it back together.

In the first pic, the rusty line where the bracket meets the frame is the crack.


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I hadn't heard about this weak point, and thought it might explain a noise I've heard recently on my RHD 80 drivers side when turning sharply. I took a look at my rig today, and looky here:
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Looks like I'll need to get that welded up.
 

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