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- #101
5W30
Update: 5W-30 & Heavier Recommended RoTW (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter 04UZJ100
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I’d do 5w40 in Phoenix heat for sure.
You didn't tell us anything about your use case and how it deviates from standard use, for which the manuals recommendation is likely optimal. Prevailing ambient temperature is just one perhaps minor variable.
For a typical owner, I would very much caution using anything more than one step over, or beyond 30 for the hot viscosity index. Or even higher than 5W on the cold viscosity. Modern technology has given use the benefit of wider multi-viscosity oils. It would potentially be throwing away some of the cold start protective benefits by going too high on cold viscosity.
Taking the recommendation of layman here, versus validated guidance from the horses mouth in the manual, is a great way to do more harm than good. There's nothing to solve or make better when Toyota motors are some of the most reliable on the market.
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That's what I do, 5k intervals. OEM Filters, always. Switched over at 160k, now at 181 - all good. NC - pretty warm to hot here. Not Florida hot, but plenty hot enough. Lots of in-town commuting, but typically at least one medium to long-ish road trip a change. Disney. Colorado. That kind of stuff, hammer down rolling at highway speeds for full tanks (which thankfully, looking on the "bright side"
is only 300 miles max!).
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I chose to deviate due to my own training and experience with oil viscosity temperature dependence, and picking engine oil viscosity using (potentially out of date) enginerding charts. Because automotive engines tend to run over a range of rpm and not at static load, the "right" viscosity is somewhat variable. I am more concerned with maintaining oil film thickness than heat transfer. I have not personally seen the viscosity and temperature curves for the new classes of 0W20 oils, and so I have concerns with what film thickness they are able to provide when hot. If it becomes common place that folks who have done religious dealer maintenance on their 3UR engines are seeing 4-500k engine lives, then I will have been proven wrong. I simply don't see the depth of data to be comfortable with changing from the more traditional oil types.
Feel free to call me old school, but I like high zinc/ZDDP engine oils, which WILL ruin a cat on an engine that burns oil. These tend to be the more diesel focused oils, as ZDDP is being eliminated from gasoline engine use due to the cat issue. But your point is well taken; hence using a 5W40 and not something like a 15W40. I have seen 15W40 shorten average (f150 V8) engine life from ~300k to ~250k as a result of excessive COLD START wear. The base oil in a 5W40 is still just a SAE 5 weight oil, with modifiers to bring the viscosity up at higher temperatures. A 0W30 or 0W40 might be an interesting choice. I simply have zero experience with these new classes of oil, and have not seen any published viscosity behavior with temperature.... and I have the aforementioned issue with a lack of extensive data.
For those who are interested in learning more about oil viscosity, a reasonably well written article can be found here: Don't Ignore Viscosity Index When Selecting a Lubricant - https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28956/lubricant-viscosity-index
A more automotive focused, but still layman level, article is here: https://ppp.purdue.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/PPP-124.pdf ...and no, the irony is not lost on me that they recommend to follow the owners manual. That is typically your best course of action.... however as others have pointed out, Toyota changes what they recommend based on market. I am not sure this thread has really even answered why USDM is instructed to use 0W20, while ROW gets the more familiar temperature-oil type chart.
Not to hijack, but what about 0W-30? Great flow and protection at low temps/startup and a bit more viscous when things heat up. I base that perceived best of both worlds benefit on nothing fyi. Just a random thought.
I ran 0w40 in my truck that spec 5w30 for 4 years without any issues. Nothing wrong with running a 0w oil for quick flow.
For towing over GCWR at 15k combined rig weight on 35s, that's my choice. Summer southwest temps, climbing Rockies with throttle pegged over 80% for sometimes 30+ minutes at a time.
Summer is Coming, Severe Duty Oil
It's oil change time again. With summer coming and planning for some long towing road trips through hot summer months, I'm stepping up the oil viscosity for my vehicle. For those that tow heavy or are built especially heavy, this would apply. Nothing is like motoring up a long 7% grade with...
forum.ih8mud.com
High performance German cars use 0w40 especially the BMW M series. 0 is chosen for the same reason (EPA), but smaller forced induced engines get more hot than naturally aspirated V8s, that’s why the 40 index is chosen.
Without too much technical know-how my experience with 5w30 has been very good. But I must say that few times we had freezing temp in Austin this year, the engine ticked more during cold start. But those days are very few for us here.
The smoothness of 5w30 is very very noticeable.
- Thread starter
- #111
Agreed. Clicking on startup for a little bit. 90 seconds and it goes away.
No it doesn't. I can almost guarantee that you will NOT find "5W30" in ANY US market literature associated with 5.7L LCs/LXs.
- Thread starter
- #113
Says heavier oils may be used under high load and high speed. So, by inference, it does.
I doubt we'll ever know. But I think the benefit of the thread is more associated with helping us and future owners evaluate change. I know, for me, I was not ready to deviate until I became more comfortable that the OEM specification did indeed support the change. It took awhile, and I blame that on @04UZJ100 for failing to initially provide supporting references...but he finally came through!
However...
I still think this is some of the best advice here.
@04UZJ100, This is the excerpt. It's a generically true statement that appears in all TMC vehicles. The same exact paragraph shows up in my 1.8L CT200h manual (aka Prius)!
But when you read the ENTIRE section on towing, and you evaluate the ENTIRE service manual schedule associated with your vehicle, you'll never see any recommendation to use a higher viscosity oil. All you see is the specification to change out your 0W20 oil (it's specifically delineated as 0W20 always) at 5000 miles if you are under the special conditions (e.g., towing).
So, by further inference, it really doesn't?
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Yep. Not sure anyone is worried too much about going to 5. It's the 20 number that is being primarily debated.
- Thread starter
- #118
What is debated? Proof was provided straight from Mr. T. There is no debate left.
bloc
SILVER Star
People here do realize these recommendations might change by year, correct? I know the transfer case fluids did. We are taking about a vehicle and engine that has spanned 13 model years.
Absolutely no debate on what Mr. T's USA manual recommends: 0W20.
The proof for non-USA vehicles has been provided, and I'm currently comfortable with that, BUT AT MY OWN RISK. At best, information has been provided that might help owners be comfortable with heavying up past 0W20, CONTRARY TO THEIR OWNER'S MANUAL.
At the end of the day (literally), I've decided to try 5W30, based on the information in this thread (many thanks to you and others).
However, I still intend to try and maintain the integrity of this thread: IF YOU ARE IN THE USA MARKET, AND YOU USE 5W30, YOU HAVE VIOLATED THE APPLICABLE SPECIFICATION. No debate.
If you have a lubrication failure on you '20, and seek warranty work, and all your maintenance proof indicates 5W30 oil...do you expect warranty coverage? I think you'll have a sitch.
