2LTE started misfiring, smoking, 1991 Surf (1 Viewer)

[Jemjem787]

Havent had time to touch the lines yet, but.

Buddy of mine has an old (might be good) set of injectors, I'm gonna get them tested to see if they're any good and might be a possible good replacement.

Seems to be idling better now, however it coughs quite a bit when I rev it, seems to get a bit better after about a minute. I'm chalking the improvement up to dumping atf in the filter cleaning out some gunk.

Its horribly knocky in the mornings too now. I'm due for an oil change anyway so I might change up my 15w40 and go with something meant for cooler temps as the summer is over.

An issue though, I installed a catch can, and confirmed that pretty much no oil has gone into it yet (My new hose i put in there has 0 oil residue) HOWEVER, there is a crap ton of oil in between the turbo and the intake. My rubber air hoses cracked when i put them on (I have new ones on the way), and they are leeching oil like hell. I think the only source is the turbo? Could that much oil be causing misfires?

 

[roscoFJ73]

Could that much oil be causing misfires?

Most diesels will burn it off and make smoke. Ignition happens in a diesel when there enough compression to make the air in the combustion chamber hot enough to burn fuel (and oil).
But a cold or tired engine may struggle compressing the air to the temps required to burn engine oil.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Havent had time to touch the lines yet, but.

Buddy of mine has an old (might be good) set of injectors, I'm gonna get them tested to see if they're any good and might be a possible good replacement.

Seems to be idling better now, however it coughs quite a bit when I rev it, seems to get a bit better after about a minute. I'm chalking the improvement up to dumping atf in the filter cleaning out some gunk.

Its horribly knocky in the mornings too now. I'm due for an oil change anyway so I might change up my 15w40 and go with something meant for cooler temps as the summer is over.

An issue though, I installed a catch can, and confirmed that pretty much no oil has gone into it yet (My new hose i put in there has 0 oil residue) HOWEVER, there is a crap ton of oil in between the turbo and the intake. My rubber air hoses cracked when i put them on (I have new ones on the way), and they are leeching oil like hell. I think the only source is the turbo? Could that much oil be causing misfires?

Good news regarding the catch can not having much oil in it. That means your engine is probably in decent shape with regard to blow-by/compression.

If your turbo has never been replaced, there is certainly a chance it's on it's way out. Many of us have gone with one of the cheap Ebay CT20A's and had good luck with them. Just make sure you buy the one for 1990+, as it is different than the earlier style on the older 2LT.

Why don't you take the inlet hose and dump pipe off your turbo and give it a good inspection? Any oil in the dump pipe is a bad sign. Wiggle the shaft side/side and in/out to check for excessive play. If there is lots of oil in the compressor housing even with your catch can, then that's also a bad sign.

What type of catch can did you buy? Some are so crappy the oil still by-passes them into the intake anyhow....

 

[Jemjem787]

Good news regarding the catch can not having much oil in it. That means your engine is probably in decent shape with regard to blow-by/compression.

If your turbo has never been replaced, there is certainly a chance it's on it's way out. Many of us have gone with one of the cheap Ebay CT20A's and had good luck with them. Just make sure you buy the one for 1990+, as it is different than the earlier style on the older 2LT.

Why don't you take the inlet hose and dump pipe off your turbo and give it a good inspection? Any oil in the dump pipe is a bad sign. Wiggle the shaft side/side and in/out to check for excessive play.

Catch can and the hose leading up to it has 0 oil in it whatsoever, stuck my finger into the hose and it came out clean. Good news for me.

You reckon it'll be cheaper to buy a new one than get it rebuilt? I don't know if I'm looking at the right listings, but all im seeing are 2k+ CT20A turbos on ebay. Looks like getting them rebuilt would run between 3-500. Might be better off just finding a used one that's still solid if rebuilding isn't an option.

I'll take a look at my turbo later this week, along with the air hoses to see just how much oil is getting tossed into the engine.



I was also reading up on your TD04 turbo swap thread, doesn't look like you ever went ahead with it. My brother just upped his turbo on his wrx and as a result has a TD04L (49377-04399) laying around, it needs a rebuild though. It looks like i could already buy a premade adapter for the manifold, and a bracket to relocate the waste gate as well because it would be too high to clear the hood. (Or give the specs to a local shop to fab it up for me). I could pickup the dump pipe flange that you also mentioned in your thread. Internal wastegate PSI seems to be around the same and with my MBC and with a bigger exhaust i could probably get it up to some higher PSI saftely. Hell, if you ever go ahead with your own swap, and it turns out my turbo is toast, i'll hire you to make an extra set of flanges/brackets for me and just swap over to the td04.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Catch can and the hose leading up to it has 0 oil in it whatsoever, stuck my finger into the hose and it came out clean. Good news for me.

You reckon it'll be cheaper to buy a new one than get it rebuilt? I don't know if I'm looking at the right listings, but all im seeing are 2k+ CT20A turbos on ebay. Looks like getting them rebuilt would run between 3-500. Might be better off just finding a used one that's still solid if rebuilding isn't an option.

I'll take a look at my turbo later this week, along with the air hoses to see just how much oil is getting tossed into the engine.



I was also reading up on your TD04 turbo swap thread, doesn't look like you ever went ahead with it. My brother just upped his turbo on his wrx and as a result has a TD04L (49377-04399) laying around, it needs a rebuild though. It looks like i could already buy a premade adapter for the manifold, and a bracket to relocate the waste gate as well because it would be too high to clear the hood. (Or give the specs to a local shop to fab it up for me). I could pickup the dump pipe flange that you also mentioned in your thread. Internal wastegate PSI seems to be around the same and with my MBC and with a bigger exhaust i could probably get it up to some higher PSI saftely. Hell, if you ever go ahead with your own swap, and it turns out my turbo is toast, i'll hire you to make an extra set of flanges/brackets for me and just swap over to the td04.

You're looking at the wrong ones on Ebay. OK, I just bought a CHRA and installed it to my original turbine and compressor housing. This is what I bought: Turbo cartridge CHRA CT20 17201-54060 for Toyota Hilux Landcruiser 2.4 TD 2L-T | eBay

Or you can just buy a the full unit: CT20 Turbo Turbocharger for Toyota Hilux Land Cruiser 2.4L 2L-T 17201-54060 SALE | eBay

You could look into rebuild too I suppose.

Regarding the TD04 upgrade, I do still plan to do that. The manifold adapter you linked to will not work for the Subaru style TD04 (which has a totally different 3 bolt flange). Also, the flange you linked to has a round hole, not the square hold that your 2LTE manifold has. ie. the adapter you found is for the earlier 2LT (pre 1989) manifold that suits the earlier turbo style. I wish it was so simple as just buying an existing adapter.

Anyhow, I was planning on designing an adapter for the Subaru TD04L to 2LTE manifold for manufacture on CNC. I can see if there is interest and have more than one manufactured at that time. I also plan to have a custom oil feed line made - again, I could get a few done at once. Sort of a TD04 upgrade kit of sorts.

 

[Jemjem787]

Yea i definitely wasn't looking for the right thing, a new turbo would be cheaper than rebuilding, $250 including shipping. Even a brand new TD04 would likely be cheaper than getting one rebuilt. I'll have to investigate this further.

Thanks for the insight on those adapters, if it turns out my turbo is shot, then I'd rather spend a bit of extra money and upgrade it than put in the same thing in. I'll have some time friday to open it up and check it out. When were you planning to get a jump on the TD04 upgrade? And what's your plan for the waste gate height clearance?

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Yea i definitely wasn't looking for the right thing, a new turbo would be cheaper than rebuilding, $250 including shipping. Even a brand new TD04 would likely be cheaper than getting one rebuilt. I'll have to investigate this further.

Thanks for the insight on those adapters, if it turns out my turbo is shot, then I'd rather spend a bit of extra money and upgrade it than put in the same thing in. I'll have some time friday to open it up and check it out. When were you planning to get a jump on the TD04 upgrade? And what's your plan for the waste gate height clearance?

Honestly not sure when I'll get to the TD04 upgrade. Probably this winter sometime, but likely not as quick as you'd like. I think the waste gate will clear in my engine bay as it's deeper than the Hilux one. Not sure what solution to recommend for the Hilux. You might be able to run with no waste gate. The one on my CT20 is always closed, but because of the fuel limits of the injection pump, it never gets over 19-20psi. However, the TD04 is more efficient, so it might over-boost with no waste gate. Not sure.

 

[Shinhoto]

Havent had time to touch the lines yet, but.

Buddy of mine has an old (might be good) set of injectors, I'm gonna get them tested to see if they're any good and might be a possible good replacement.

Seems to be idling better now, however it coughs quite a bit when I rev it, seems to get a bit better after about a minute. I'm chalking the improvement up to dumping atf in the filter cleaning out some gunk.

Its horribly knocky in the mornings too now. I'm due for an oil change anyway so I might change up my 15w40 and go with something meant for cooler temps as the summer is over.

An issue though, I installed a catch can, and confirmed that pretty much no oil has gone into it yet (My new hose i put in there has 0 oil residue) HOWEVER, there is a crap ton of oil in between the turbo and the intake. My rubber air hoses cracked when i put them on (I have new ones on the way), and they are leeching oil like hell. I think the only source is the turbo? Could that much oil be causing misfires?

The oil should burn with the diesel, if anything it could contribute to runaway.

I've skimmed the thread real quick. I don't think you need to pay to have someone rebuild your injectors, or even get a used set yet. New Nozzles and/or a pop test may set you on your way again.

When the Pintle nozzles on IDI engines coke up, the spray pattern can become scattered, or weak. In this case, rough running and misfiring would be the result.

If your pop pressure is off, then injection timing can be off as well, leading to knock or loss of power.

If you're inclined, you can buy or make an injector pop tester, and test your injectors to see if they need new Nozzles, or to have their pop pressure adjusted.

 

[Jemjem787]

The oil should burn with the diesel, if anything it could contribute to runaway.

I've skimmed the thread real quick. I don't think you need to pay to have someone rebuild your injectors, or even get a used set yet. New Nozzles and/or a pop test may set you on your way again.

When the Pintle nozzles on IDI engines coke up, the spray pattern can become scattered, or weak. In this case, rough running and misfiring would be the result.

If your pop pressure is off, then injection timing can be off as well, leading to knock or loss of power.

If you're inclined, you can buy or make an injector pop tester, and test your injectors to see if they need new Nozzles, or to have their pop pressure adjusted.

Appreciate the response.

Been pretty busy with my school ending and work starting up, so I've had no time to look into anything I've talked about sadly. However, i scarcely need to top up the oil in between my changes, and just recently checking i was down a significant amount. In my post turbo air intake hose I'm getting a ton of oil (Installed a catchcan so i know its not blowby). So a turbo oil seal definitely blew or something, will look into this. Gasket set is around 100 bucks, (edit, or amazon for $15) so when investigate the turbo, if it doesn't have any play ill just pickup a gasket kit, otherwise I'll either pickup a new one for 400, or talk to GTS about getting linked up with the td04 kit. I'll leave it at that regarding the turbo.

And regarding the injectors, it looks like i can pickup a set of nozzles for about half the rebuild price, and watching a video of the pop testers, it seems pretty straightforward test. I found some specs here. GTS has also done some extensive 2lte injector testing. Pretty interesting read. Getting new nozzles/tester will run me about 250-300. However, GTS stated that he found it difficult to rebuild them, and he has considerably more know-how than me, so that makes me unsure about it. (Or maybe I'm getting confused, whether or not installing new nozzles is a 'rebuild')

My injectors are 23600-59155, looking around i won't be able to find any brand new, neither the newer versions 23600-59235. Got quoted around $500 to get mine rebuilt.

Definitely something to look into. Will have some time again on the weekend for some more research. I'm more so inclined to pickup my own tester and try to figure it out myself.

Apologize for all of the hyperlinks, just wanting to give help to any future readers who come across the same issues.

 

[AirheadNut]

I rebuilt a set of Mercedes IDI injectors for my G-Wagen once, it was a relatively simple process. If you are planning on picking up a pop tester and doing it yourself you will want to get a set of nozzle shims to adjust the pop pressure to spec. That way you can also pressure balance the injectors at the same time. Set up a super clean work area, take your time and be organized and it should be just fine. Here are a couple of photos of when I did mine; looking at the 2L engine manual the injectors look very similar.

 

[John in Utah]

FWIW you can still get 3L injectors new for $130 each at partsouq. 23600-59105.
Couldn’t tell you if these are comparable but they seem to work fine with my turbo set up. I know @GTSSportCoupe has played around with different L series injectors/nozzles.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

FWIW you can still get 3L injectors new for $130 each at partsouq. 23600-59105.
Couldn’t tell you if these are comparable but they seem to work fine with my turbo set up. I know @GTSSportCoupe has played around with different L series injectors/nozzles.

I ended up just buying brand new ones too. For just a bit more than rebuild cost it's worth it. I did screw around rebuilding my own for a bit but they never seemed to last. @jemjem780 Keep an eye on ebay, as there is a seller that brings in OEM 2LTE injectors occasionally for about $500 CAD.

 

[Shinhoto]

Appreciate the response.

Been pretty busy with my school ending and work starting up, so I've had no time to look into anything I've talked about sadly. However, i scarcely need to top up the oil in between my changes, and just recently checking i was down a significant amount. In my post turbo air intake hose I'm getting a ton of oil (Installed a catchcan so i know its not blowby). So a turbo oil seal definitely blew or something, will look into this. Gasket set is around 100 bucks, (edit, or amazon for $15) so when investigate the turbo, if it doesn't have any play ill just pickup a gasket kit, otherwise I'll either pickup a new one for 400, or talk to GTS about getting linked up with the td04 kit. I'll leave it at that regarding the turbo.

And regarding the injectors, it looks like i can pickup a set of nozzles for about half the rebuild price, and watching a video of the pop testers, it seems pretty straightforward test. I found some specs here. GTS has also done some extensive 2lte injector testing. Pretty interesting read. Getting new nozzles/tester will run me about 250-300. However, GTS stated that he found it difficult to rebuild them, and he has considerably more know-how than me, so that makes me unsure about it. (Or maybe I'm getting confused, whether or not installing new nozzles is a 'rebuild')

My injectors are 23600-59155, looking around i won't be able to find any brand new, neither the newer versions 23600-59235. Got quoted around $500 to get mine rebuilt.

Definitely something to look into. Will have some time again on the weekend for some more research. I'm more so inclined to pickup my own tester and try to figure it out myself.

Apologize for all of the hyperlinks, just wanting to give help to any future readers who come across the same issues.

Nozzles are relatively simple, some AliExpress or similar website should be able to get you a new set for cheap. You could also try Blue Stars Diesel (DN..PDN..Nozzle : BlueStars Diesel), but the minimum order is 12 nozzles (~4 USD per nozzle + shipping).

 

[Jemjem787]

I ended up just buying brand new ones too. For just a bit more than rebuild cost it's worth it. I did screw around rebuilding my own for a bit but they never seemed to last. @jemjem780 Keep an eye on ebay, as there is a seller that brings in OEM 2LTE injectors occasionally for about $500 CAD.

I assume the seller you are referencing is the one in you posted in your injector tech thread. I messaged him last night asking him when he is restocking already.

You seemed to like the newer injectors compared to the old style, but you said you would drive around with them for a bit to see how they work. What are your thoughts? Old or new? Do you reckon the 3l (2360059105 Toyota HOLDER & NOZZLE SET, NOZZLE, Price: 130.33$, Weight: 0.142kg - PartSouq Auto Parts Around the World) would be any different?

Watched a couple videos on injector rebuilding. If i had someone with me to help me along for the first one i think i could do it, but it looks above my head. I think I'll just stick with buying new injectors.

Nozzles are relatively simple, some AliExpress or similar website should be able to get you a new set for cheap. You could also try Blue Stars Diesel (DN..PDN..Nozzle : BlueStars Diesel), but the minimum order is 12 nozzles (~4 USD per nozzle + shipping).

So for nozzles, i take the injector out, unthread and thread in the new nozzle, throw the injector in (with a new AL crush washer) and see what happens? Sounds pretty straight forward, i think ill look into this.

 

[Shinhoto]

So for nozzles, i take the injector out, unthread and thread in the new nozzle, throw the injector in (with a new AL crush washer) and see what happens? Sounds pretty straight forward, i think ill look into this.

Kind of. Need to pop test first, if your injection pressure and pattern are okay on all injectors, then your nozzles are okay.

 

[AirheadNut]

When I "rebuilt" my Mercedes injectors I put in new nozzles, the old ones were a high flow/high hp nozzle (DN0SD314), I went with a lower flow nozzle that was supposed to help produce higher torque (DN0SD261). Its pretty straightforward to change nozzles, pop test and adjust pressure, but for the additional price of the pop tester you could probably just get whole new injectors.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

I assume the seller you are referencing is the one in you posted in your injector tech thread. I messaged him last night asking him when he is restocking already.

You seemed to like the newer injectors compared to the old style, but you said you would drive around with them for a bit to see how they work. What are your thoughts? Old or new? Do you reckon the 3l (2360059105 Toyota HOLDER & NOZZLE SET, NOZZLE, Price: 130.33$, Weight: 0.142kg - PartSouq Auto Parts Around the World) would be any different?

Having run the 2LT-II style injectors for a few months now, I think given the opportunity again, I'd go for the early 2LTE ones next time. But really they are very similar and you'd be fine either way. The 2LT-II style are the basic design that most of the IDI toyota diesels get. The early 2LTE ones have a special 'throttled nozzle' which basically gives a small pre-injection spray before the final injection. They run a bit quieter because of this, and seem to make a bit more power. The 2LT-II ones give a bit more of a typical diesel rattle though (sound better IMHO). They both seem to get about the same mpg. They don't have any impact on coolant temps from what I could see.

 

[Jemjem787]

Thought I'd give an update as its been a couple months. All my symptoms disappeared at the end of October and she see is running better than ever now with the cooler temperatures we are having now. I don't know what caused it, i asked around on a couple groups, and people filled up at that same gas station as me, and nobody else had issues so it couldn't be bad diesel. I didn't touch anything 2 weeks prior to it fixing itself, so im still scratching my head at what it could be.

I've been toying with the idea of selling it, but i think its worth more than what people are willing to pay (I think a few of us share that same mindset though) so i may hold onto it for a while.

Narrowed down the oil in the intake to a turbo leak, Installed a catchcan and there is nothing pre-turbo, and a bunch post-turbo. So I'm thinking im gonna either pickup a new turbo, or hit you up GTS if you still plan on that conversion kit. I'll shoot you a PM regarding it incase you don't see this thread. Think i might put a bigger exhaust on too, as that's one of the first upgrades everyone recommends (Still unsure why i haven't done it yet). Might even turn up the boost just for the winter season while its cool, and turn it back down when it gets warm (or intercool it)

Eventually gonna get a light weight winch bar in the front, uncrank the torsion bars (And maybe swap out my OME ones for stock, so its a bit softer, will look into this once i see howmuch my bullbar weighs), detroit in the rear, list of upgrades never ends. Could even SAS it.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Shinhoto]

Thought I'd give an update as its been a couple months. All my symptoms disappeared at the end of October and she see is running better than ever now with the cooler temperatures we are having now. I don't know what caused it, i asked around on a couple groups, and people filled up at that same gas station as me, and nobody else had issues so it couldn't be bad diesel. I didn't touch anything 2 weeks prior to it fixing itself, so im still scratching my head at what it could be.

I've been toying with the idea of selling it, but i think its worth more than what people are willing to pay (I think a few of us share that same mindset though) so i may hold onto it for a while.

Narrowed down the oil in the intake to a turbo leak, Installed a catchcan and there is nothing pre-turbo, and a bunch post-turbo. So I'm thinking im gonna either pickup a new turbo, or hit you up GTS if you still plan on that conversion kit. I'll shoot you a PM regarding it incase you don't see this thread. Think i might put a bigger exhaust on too, as that's one of the first upgrades everyone recommends (Still unsure why i haven't done it yet). Might even turn up the boost just for the winter season while its cool, and turn it back down when it gets warm (or intercool it)

Eventually gonna get a light weight winch bar in the front, uncrank the torsion bars (And maybe swap out my OME ones for stock, so its a bit softer, will look into this once i see howmuch my bullbar weighs), detroit in the rear, list of upgrades never ends. Could even SAS it.

Thanks again for all the help.

Mag engines has new turbo cartridges for the CT-20 for around 100 usd. Where are you located, I have a plate bumper and winch setup I'm trying to sell.

 

[Jemjem787]

I'm over on the western coast of Canada. And regarding the turbo, i have absolutely no experience regarding it's internals, but could probably figure it out. I've linked what i presume you are referencing at the bottom here. Are the seals in the cartridge what would be leaking? I'm somewhat mechanically experienced, but I've heard that rebuilding turbos yourself is tricky.

17201-54060 TURBO CARTRIDGE TOYOTA 2L-T 2.4 LTR – Mag Engines

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