3FE Head Gasket (1 Viewer)

[Rush]

And about the block... I'm still not sure it's where the water got into the oil.
My current methodology tests the entire cooling system, as I didn't want to remove the water pump.
Well, that's going to have to change:

The paper gasket between the back of the pump and the plate is leaking.
The screws themselves are even leaking.

I'm assuming the gasket would hold water/coolant just fine, but it's clearly not enough, cold and dry, to hold air alone.

 

[TomOsborne]

And about the block... I'm still not sure it's where the water got into the oil.
My current methodology tests the entire cooling system, as I didn't want to remove the water pump.
Well, that's going to have to change:
View attachment 2125973
The paper gasket between the back of the pump and the plate is leaking.
The screws themselves are even leaking.

I'm assuming the gasket would hold water/coolant just fine, but it's clearly not enough, cold and dry, to hold air alone.

Damn. Weird. Leakng everywhere. But thats from you forcing air through correct?

 

[Rush]

Damn. Weird. Leakng everywhere. But thats from you forcing air through correct?

It is.
I stuck the business end of a radiator pressure tester into the lower rad hose and sealed it with a hose clamp.

I know it's ghetto, but it did show me that the rad hoses were leaking. I've since replaced them all.

 

[TomOsborne]

It is.
I stuck the business end of a radiator pressure tester into the lower rad hose and sealed it with a hose clamp.

I know it's ghetto, but it did show me that the rad hoses were leaking. I've since replaced them all.

10-4. That paper gasket probably just cant handle it. I really hope it's not your block. But the good news is it's probably not.

 

[Rush]

10-4. That paper gasket probably just cant handle it. I really hope it's not your block. But the good news is it's probably not.

Right, I'm just paranoid that the block is what's pooched because that's the one thing I don't want to have to replace. The kid that owned it before me did the HG, poorly, which could theoretically explain the coolant in the oil. A few of the head bolts weren't entirely difficult to remove... so if you add up a misaligned HG + low clamping force, I suppose I could be convinced that the water escaped into the oil passages somewhere on that side of the block.

 

[Mixelplix]

Awesome thread, man. You're doing a terrific job documenting everything.

 

[Rush]

Awesome thread, man. You're doing a terrific job documenting everything.

Thanks, man!

 

[Rush]

Right, I'm just paranoid that the block is what's pooched because that's the one thing I don't want to have to replace. The kid that owned it before me did the HG, poorly, which could theoretically explain the coolant in the oil. A few of the head bolts weren't entirely difficult to remove... so if you add up a misaligned HG + low clamping force, I suppose I could be convinced that the water escaped into the oil passages somewhere on that side of the block.

I've been doublechecking my assumptions, and do find mention of intake manifolds with coolant passages as a possible route to coolant in the oil.
Well, the 3FE does have that exact arrangement. Per the 3FE FSM (RM134E):

I'd think I'd see more evidence of that in the intake manifold and the cylinders... plus the manifold's coolant passages would need to fail a pressure test.
I'll see what I can do there.

 

[BILT4ME]

In reference to the "lost" dowels, you may want to drop a skinny magnet down into the water jackets and all orifices of the block to make sure the PO didn't drop them into those areas that will create new problems later. It's not uncommon for a dowel pin to pull with the head, then fall out as you're pulling the head away from the block.

 

[Rush]

In reference to the "lost" dowels, you may want to drop a skinny magnet down into the water jackets and all orifices of the block to make sure the PO didn't drop them into those areas that will create new problems later. It's not uncommon for a dowel pin to pull with the head, then fall out as you're pulling the head away from the block.

I'll go dredge for those, good idea.

Speaking of which, I got the ones from the dealership that I had ordered in.
They're evidently Toyota Part# 90253-17003. Toyotapartsdeal has them at 90253-17003 - Genuine Toyota PIN, DOWEL, CRANKSHA
They're listed as "PIN, DOWEL, CRANKSHA", but described as "Pin, Straight (For Cylinder Head Set)". The page lists them for all the 2F/3F/3FE motors from FJ40, on.

Either way, mystery solved.

 

[Rush]

The shop called and confirmed the head is good. No cracks.
They said the valve guides are in good shape and the seats have enough for a recut, so I opted to replace the exhaust valves with stock.

 

[Rush]

Chamfered the bolt holes.
Plenty of chatter, I know, but as the point was just to remove material and not machine an aligning/mating surface, I feel ok about it.

 

[Rush]

Today is a good day.

 

[BILT4ME]

Chamfered the bolt holes.
Plenty of chatter, I know, but as the point was just to remove material and not machine an aligning/mating surface, I feel ok about it.
View attachment 2128204

View attachment 2128206

View attachment 2128207

Why did you chamfer the bolt holes in the block unless you had the block decked (which you didn't)?

 

[Rush]

Why did you chamfer the bolt holes in the block unless you had the block decked (which you didn't)?

Fair question.

In short, because Jim said so in How not to build the 2F.

But also because 1. this motor already had HG sealing issues and 2. the countersink bit was $10 and 3. it took maybe 15 minutes to do.

No harm in cutting them, especially since there was zero chamfering done prior and this will be at least the third time a head will be torqued down on this block. I didn't want to chance having the top layer bubble up like in the above thread.

 

[BILT4ME]

Fair question.

In short, because Jim said so in How not to build the 2F.

But also because 1. this motor already had HG sealing issues and 2. the countersink bit was $10 and 3. it took maybe 15 minutes to do.

No harm in cutting them, especially since there was zero chamfering done prior and this will be at least the third time a head will be torqued down on this block. I didn't want to chance having the top layer bubble up like in the above thread.

So that's a thing on the 2F / 3F?

Ok

 

[Rush]

Did the oil galley plug fix.
Two 5/16" 10-18NC set screws + red loctite, torqued to 120~140 in-lbs.

 

[Rush]

Well, s***.

But at least I can still see the crosshatch!!

 

[Rush]

The machine shop says it'll be ~$300 to bore, hottank, and deck the block.

Am I crazy to do a full rebuild on this, should I just look for a different shortblock?

I suppose I can wait until they tell me if it's cracked or not, before deciding.

 

[Rush]

I've found a 190K mile 3FE locally, and pick it up today.

Supposedly the compression wasn't great before they pulled it, but it was running.

Hone and re-ring?