80 Series brake hydro booster conversion installed (1 Viewer)

[synapse]

See highlighted responses in quote

So going to the T-100 MC, but keeping Toyota booster will give you less braking force?
That seems like a step in the wrong direction.

Not necessarily a step in the wrong direction. Less braking torque for same driver input(keep in mind we're talking about pedal pressure here). With a larger MC pedal travel decreases and gives you the sensation of a firmer pedal. So more braking torque for same amount of pedal travel.

The Low Range Offroad Kit you linked is for mating a GM MC to a Toyota booster.
Also seems like a step in the wrong direction.

There's a plethora of 2 bolt MC's that can potentially fit. Including some Wilwood options. The GM 1.25" MC that's listed in the link is really only for people going with MUCH LARGER bore calipers than our OEM 80. Probably won't apply to any of us including myself who plans to go bigger calipers F+R. The calipers I have in mind only differ by about <10% piston area.

I thought this thread was about getting a GM style HYDRO-booster, since it’s better than (more braking force) an Toyota VACUUM-booster?

Mating an off-the-shelf Toyota MC to a GM HYDRO-booster, to hopefully mate up Toyota brake lines for ease & simplicity of install, & have an easily available MC for roadside replacement too?

@NLXTACY is actually correct that the 2 bolt Tundra will bolt on, but this uses a 13/16" piston bore. I speculate, that's too small. If the info on the link I posted earlier is correct the 4Runner 2 bolt MC may be a better option as it uses a 1" piston bore.

Not 100% positive, but you may be able to use the adapter fittings from the kit to retrofit the OEM brake lines to the GM/Wilwood MC and Hydroboost. Looks like you can...

Am I correct? I’ve been wrong before.

If a booster-to-firewall adapter or MC-to-booster adapter was necessary, hopefully someone can make & sell a kit so it’s all plug & play once the best MC & HYDRO-booster was figured out.

Hopefully someone like Joey at Wits-End @NLXTACY would pick this up as he appears to have the resources & connections for production & a platform to sell & distribute such a kit.

That was what hoping could come to fruition.
And I think it would be a nice upgrade to compliment his, about to be released, bolt-on turbo kit.

 

[jjdeneen918]

See highlighted responses in quote

It’s very apparent that someone with more knowledge than me needs to spec the best & most effective combo of MC & booster for the 80’s.

I am curious what your caliper comment entails. Bigger F&R calipers to gain 10% piston area.
I would imagine that could effect the type/size of MC & booster too?
What does 10% larger piston size equate to for brake performance? Larger rotors too?

 

[Rollinns]

@synapse

Thanks for this link:
Toyota 4x4 Brake Master Cylinder and Brake Booster Specs
Very helpful stuff.


I don't plan to change the calipers, so staying with the stock bore size of 1" sounds like the right move for me since that's how Mr T. originally designed it.

 

[Rollinns]

I'll stick with the stock 80 series Master cylinder since the 4Runner MC in the link above is for a Disk/Drum setup vs my stock Disk/Disk setup. The brake lines are also on the other side (when using the 4Runner MC), but that's not a deal breaker, I would rather stick with an MC built for disks all the way around, to avoid the added complexity of a proportioning valve.

I'm switching to Hydroboost for packaging reasons, I need the space for a larger turbo, and plan to incorporate mounting points for a heat shield into the adapters needed for the Hydroboost unit.

 

[synapse]

I'll stick with the stock 80 series Master cylinder since the 4Runner MC in the link above is for a Disk/Drum setup vs my stock Disk/Disk setup. The brake lines are also on the other side (when using the 4Runner MC), but that's not a deal breaker, I would rather stick with an MC built for disks all the way around, to avoid the added complexity of a proportioning valve.

I'm switching to Hydroboost for packaging reasons, I need the space for a larger turbo, and plan to incorporate mounting points for a heat shield into the adapters needed for the Hydroboost unit.

True, didn't pay attention to the disk drum setup.

It’s very apparent that someone with more knowledge than me needs to spec the best & most effective combo of MC & booster for the 80’s.

I am curious what your caliper comment entails. Bigger F&R calipers to gain 10% piston area.
I would imagine that could effect the type/size of MC & booster too?
What does 10% larger piston size equate to for brake performance? Larger rotors too?

Achieving a larger total piston area is just choosing a caliper that utilizes larger and/or more pistons. Doesn't necessarily mean larger caliper and/or need larger rotors, but larger rotors can help with total brake torque(more leverage) and better heat dissipation due to larger mass. I'd say going more than a 15-20% change can affect pedal travel and pressure too drastically unless you modify the MC or booster. I'm intending to keep front at a 10% increase and rear at 7% so shouldn't change pedal travel much. Extra brake torque will come from larger rotors(I'll step up to 17" wheels) and having more options on brake pads with aftermarket calipers as we're quite limited for our 80 series. Also when changing brakes it's important to take note of how everything affects brake bias.

 

[baldilocks]

So going to the T-100 MC, but keeping Toyota booster will give you less braking force?
That seems like a step in the wrong direction.

The Low Range Offroad Kit you linked is for mating a GM MC to a Toyota booster.
Also seems like a step in the wrong direction.

I thought this thread was about getting a GM style HYDRO-booster, since it’s better than (more braking force) an Toyota VACUUM-booster?

Mating an off-the-shelf Toyota MC to a GM HYDRO-booster, to hopefully mate up Toyota brake lines for ease & simplicity of install, & have an easily available MC for roadside replacement too?

Am I correct? I’ve been wrong before.

If a booster-to-firewall adapter or MC-to-booster adapter was necessary, hopefully someone can make & sell a kit so it’s all plug & play once the best MC & HYDRO-booster was figured out.

Hopefully someone like Joey at Wits-End @NLXTACY would pick this up as he appears to have the resources & connections for production & a platform to sell & distribute such a kit.

That was what hoping could come to fruition.
And I think it would be a nice upgrade to compliment his, about to be released, bolt-on turbo kit.

This thread is about the ready to install kit that I received from a vendor who can and will supply you with whatever you want/need to adapt a GM hydro booster to your vehicle. And I do mean everything necessary including custom made adapters to make it possible to adapt the SAE style ports of the MC to metric brake line fittings. It just so happened that I used only one of the ready made adapters because the steel line to the front right caliper is the only front line that I retained.

Making new custom hard lines that route along the left inner fender makes for a much cleaner install because the stock lines are longer than necessary once ABS is removed, but it’s not absolutely necessary. One could simply use the adapters like the ones I received with my kit and connect directly to the stock hard lines after some reforming of those lines. This would eliminate the need to learn how to bend and flare brake lines.

As far as MC choice goes, when it decides to leak it doesn’t matter what brand you have, it needs to be fixed but probably wouldn’t create an immediate emergency.

In the unlikely event that the MC did become completely useless in the middle of nowhere, an on the spot rebuild would be the only way to deal with and a rebuild kit for any MC could be carried in a parts kit. This option is more appealing to me than limping my way to XYZ auto parts store or dealership, if that would be at all possible, and then wait for them to get me what I need.

I’ve never given any thought to my MC being a potentially major problem because they are normally quite trouble free in my experience. Let’s not be worry warts.

If your not living on the edge, you’re taking up too much space.

 

[cruisermatt]

Getting back on topic - for those going the cheaper route -
What Toyota MCs will bolt right up to the hydroboost unit from a chevy/GMC van?
A Tundra MC was mentioned, what year?

None that I know of. Not sure why anyone thinks a Toyota MC will bolt to a GM booster. I think @NLXTACY mentioned a Tundra MC just because of the bore size, it looks like bolt pattern is similar but I have never seen anyone make that connection. If I am wrong on this please correct me.

 

[NLXTACY]

None that I know of. Not sure why anyone thinks a Toyota MC will bolt to a GM booster. I think @NLXTACY mentioned a Tundra MC just because of the bore size, it looks like bolt pattern is similar but I have never seen anyone make that connection. If I am wrong on this please correct me.

I was only referring to bore. Mounting pattern is a different issue but solvable with adapter and new pushrod.

 

[nukegoat]

Now I feel lame for not having hydroboost

 

[baldilocks]

Now I feel lame for not having hydroboost

How well does your rig stop on those 42’s using larger one ton calipers? I’m assuming that you are still running the stock MC which has a considerably smaller bore and fluid displacement. Your rig is a prime candidate for this mod.

The way I see it, I’m one step closer to being ready for tons myself.

 

[nukegoat]

How well does your rig stop on those 42’s using larger one ton calipers? I’m assuming that you are still running the stock MC which has a considerably smaller bore and fluid displacement. Your rig is a prime candidate for this mod.

The way I see it, I’m one step closer to being ready for tons myself.

I use bigger calipers but also have a 1.25" gm mc

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Local set up with ABS dont remember the details but has been running for a while. Several also upped the size of the front calipers to older Tundra IIRC. The performance gains with the larger calipers has been reported as

 

[baldilocks]

Local set up with ABS dont remember the details but has been running for a while. Several also upped the size of the front calipers to older Tundra IIRC. The performance gains with the larger calipers has been reported as

View attachment 1964892

I would be interested to know what brand and model of booster that is because it appears to be installed up right in the normal orientation. My GM booster had to be installed upside down because the accumulator contacted the intake maifold and would not allow the booster as far inboard as it needed to go.

Based on the braking performance the hydro booster and bigger MC has afforded me, the 80 already has enough rotor and caliper.

 

[jjdeneen918]

Local set up with ABS dont remember the details but has been running for a while. Several also upped the size of the front calipers to older Tundra IIRC. The performance gains with the larger calipers has been reported as

View attachment 1964892

Is that Cruiser owner a member here? Maybe he can give some details, or you could inquire with him?

Appears he maintained all the ABS lines.
This cruiser does appear more plug-&-play. No removing safety systems (ABS) & off-the-shelf factory parts.

 

[baldilocks]

Is that Cruiser owner a member here? Maybe he can give some details, or you could inquire with him?

Appears he maintained all the ABS lines.
This cruiser does appear more plug-&-play. No removing safety systems (ABS) & off-the-shelf factory parts.

Everyone who removed abs did so in order to actually have brakes. Those of us who have enough time on this planet have driven more miles without abs than with it.

 

[jjdeneen918]

Everyone who removed abs did so in order to actually have brakes. Those of us who have enough time on this planet have driven more miles without abs than with it.

Some states do safety checks on cars for registration. Not sure if they make sure your ABS is functioning as part of that. So that is a possibility.
People concerned for liability. Crash into school bus of nuns, kill 80 people. Then they discover you deleted factory safety equipment. I’m sure a lawyer would be found that would try to make a payday.

I am curious why the ABS makes the brakes worse? Does it some how restrict line pressure, making calipers have less clamping force?

I would be fine removing ABS, but I’m not sure if everyone removes it for simplicity of bleeding lines, or there is an actual detriment to the system.

Sorry for all the questions, I’m not questioning you, but trying to learn myself.

 

[baldilocks]

The abs unit can develop internal corrosion or simply stop working. The plumbing system is so long and complicated that bleeding the system is a near impossibility for a shade tree mechanic without the ability to activate the abs pump during the bleeding process. I can now bleed by gravity alone and the likelyhood of my rig crashing into a bus load precious cargo is many times less than before.

ABS is only there to hopefully assist the driver, who has already screwed up, to make the best of a crappy situation. If people drove sanely and defensively abs wouldn’t be needed. I can honestly say that abs has never done me any favors over the course of 36 years driving.

 

[jjdeneen918]

Ok, I’m sold with that explanation. Thank you.

I just ordered the Wits End @NLXTACY ABS Sensor delete kit.

I’ll start piecing this thing together. I’ll probably Have to call your supplier & ask questions on the best parts to cobble together. I’d prefer to not install parts upside & inside out. But if that booster you got is superior to others, not a big deal. I’m guessing once installed it’s done.

I still prefer an OEM MC I think. It doesn’t need to be Toyota, but I prefer Toyota factory parts. But it may not be compatible, unless someone were to make a conversion bracket kit.

 

[synapse]

Local set up with ABS dont remember the details but has been running for a while. Several also upped the size of the front calipers to older Tundra IIRC. The performance gains with the larger calipers has been reported as

View attachment 1964892

Got me curious... I'm only finding 2 different size brake calipers on Tundras. Earlier generation having identical piston area of our 80 front calipers. So there are absolutely no advantages to going older generation Tundra calipers. Newer generation having a total piston area of 6.35, which are way oversized for stock MC.

 

[smritte]

The abs unit can develop internal corrosion

This is something most tech's don't realize. Said simply, there are valves that can corrode inside the abs unit. When this happens brake pressure bypasses and goes into a spring loaded chamber called an accumulator. It gives symptoms like a bad master cylinder or air. Ive seen this happen as low as 100k and mine started having the issue recently at 290k. Some ABS units can be tested for this, the 80 unit cannot. The only options are replace the unit or in my case remove it.