What have you done to your 200 Series this week? (23 Viewers)
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looks great!
bloc
SILVER Star
Learned my lesson about assuming ANYTHING to do with the exhaust on a gasoline vehicle will be easy.. even if it's not rusty.
I decided to copy @TeCKis300 and change just the starter solenoid on my truck as outlined in his great thread here: Starter Solenoid Failure Mode
I haven't had any issues, but at 130k I'm starting to look at a different level of PM and getting-stranded avoidance.
Basically he found that you can get the starter out without removing the manifold.. just loosen the downpipe, pull it backward, sideways, get the heat shields off the starter, and wiggle it out of the hole.
For me? that didn't work.
I already had the starter solenoid on the bench.. figured I'd see what else I need when I get in there.
Despite not being very corroded, one of the downpipe studs broke off (I didn't use PB blaster.. seems too "miracle cure" for me and I wonder what it does to exhaust once it gets hot again. One lesson learned this time), another galled. Crap. Plus, I couldn't get the downpipe back far enough to slip over the studs, even when loosening the two spring bolts near the fuel tank that fasten it to the rest of the exhaust.
So the manifold had to come out.. both to get the downpipe out of the way, and to replace the broken studs. And, it turns out, the transmission crossmember had to come out too, to get the downpipe out of the way for the manifold to come out.
Notice a trend here?
I order the studs, manifold nuts, heat shield bolts, all the stuff I think I need from toyota. Then I try to remove those studs.. denied. I heat the piss out of the flange with a MAP gas torch and it still broke the external torx tip off. Rather than dig a hole deeper, I bring the manifold to a small local auto machine shop for them to remove them.
Get the manifold the next day and they said they had hell with them. And yep, the holes look like hell.. all galled, clearly used a LOT of heat on the flange.. but they got them out. I didn't like the threads but planned on putting nuts behind the flange and that would have worked fine. So I take it home to clean it up for reinstall.. and find this;
There was no hint of a leak before all of this, no soot on the outside, and I checked with soap and compressed air and the crack does go all the way through. No way to prove the machine shop did it.. but I suspect they had the thing chucked up in a vice and were going to town pulling the studs.
s***.
Order a manifold from toyota.. even with a nice discount I get, it had to be expedited to not take two weeks so about $400 total.
That showed up today.. but first, the starter solenoid
I decided to copy @TeCKis300 and change just the starter solenoid on my truck as outlined in his great thread here: Starter Solenoid Failure Mode
I haven't had any issues, but at 130k I'm starting to look at a different level of PM and getting-stranded avoidance.
Basically he found that you can get the starter out without removing the manifold.. just loosen the downpipe, pull it backward, sideways, get the heat shields off the starter, and wiggle it out of the hole.
For me? that didn't work.
I already had the starter solenoid on the bench.. figured I'd see what else I need when I get in there.
Despite not being very corroded, one of the downpipe studs broke off (I didn't use PB blaster.. seems too "miracle cure" for me and I wonder what it does to exhaust once it gets hot again. One lesson learned this time), another galled. Crap. Plus, I couldn't get the downpipe back far enough to slip over the studs, even when loosening the two spring bolts near the fuel tank that fasten it to the rest of the exhaust.
So the manifold had to come out.. both to get the downpipe out of the way, and to replace the broken studs. And, it turns out, the transmission crossmember had to come out too, to get the downpipe out of the way for the manifold to come out.
Notice a trend here?
I order the studs, manifold nuts, heat shield bolts, all the stuff I think I need from toyota. Then I try to remove those studs.. denied. I heat the piss out of the flange with a MAP gas torch and it still broke the external torx tip off. Rather than dig a hole deeper, I bring the manifold to a small local auto machine shop for them to remove them.
Get the manifold the next day and they said they had hell with them. And yep, the holes look like hell.. all galled, clearly used a LOT of heat on the flange.. but they got them out. I didn't like the threads but planned on putting nuts behind the flange and that would have worked fine. So I take it home to clean it up for reinstall.. and find this;
There was no hint of a leak before all of this, no soot on the outside, and I checked with soap and compressed air and the crack does go all the way through. No way to prove the machine shop did it.. but I suspect they had the thing chucked up in a vice and were going to town pulling the studs.
s***.
Order a manifold from toyota.. even with a nice discount I get, it had to be expedited to not take two weeks so about $400 total.
That showed up today.. but first, the starter solenoid
Last edited:
bloc
SILVER Star
I'll let you guys check Teckis' thread for the how-to if you dont have the problems I did.. but once the starter is out, the solenoid is very straightforward.
12mm nut to loosen the copper conductor to the motor, then two small 10mm nuts to remove the noid. It pulls right away and lifts out of the slot to free it up.
No, I didn't have the starter rebuilt. I've owned many toyotas and the contacts are ALWAYS the issue.. I figure if I do another solenoid at 250k+ then I'll consider a rebuild or replace the whole thing.
Make sure you don't over-torque the 12mm nuts for the big power cable and conductor to the motor. IIRC they are aluminum studs and basically only need to avoid backing off by themselves. No structural clamping going on.
12mm nut to loosen the copper conductor to the motor, then two small 10mm nuts to remove the noid. It pulls right away and lifts out of the slot to free it up.
No, I didn't have the starter rebuilt. I've owned many toyotas and the contacts are ALWAYS the issue.. I figure if I do another solenoid at 250k+ then I'll consider a rebuild or replace the whole thing.
Make sure you don't over-torque the 12mm nuts for the big power cable and conductor to the motor. IIRC they are aluminum studs and basically only need to avoid backing off by themselves. No structural clamping going on.
bloc
SILVER Star
Oh, and for those saying that crack could be welded.. yeah, probably.. but it was a lot of work to get to this point, I don't want to repeat it if it cracks again later.
So the new manifold showed up today..
If you ever wondered what the whirring sound is after starting a 200 cold, it's the air injection motors running, and I THINK they ultimately push fresh air into the shiny formed metal pipe above and to the left of the main flange. I didn't get a good picture but each of the ports next to the exhaust port is lined up with a hole drilled into the head and I suspect those go to an area right near the exhaust valve port.
Anyway, no cracks..
I also noticed that these manifolds aren't exactly built for incredible flow. Not that I'm complaining about horsepower, but when you look at the rear port they could have done a much better job of optimizing the flow out of the stubby tube. I leave room for the possibility that they did this on purpose.. they do know a LOT more than me.
Anyway.. all buttoned up with lots of Nickel-based anti-seize on the manifold nuts, downpipe studs and nuts, spring bolts at the rear of the downpipe... nowhere it'll foul an O2 sensor, but it should keep these fasteners moving if I ever need to tear it apart again.
Bolted together, started it up and burnt the shipping oil off.. no CELs or VSC lights, no leaks, no heat shield rattles, bring on another 130k miles of my starter not crapping out on me.
Lessons? Use more PB blaster. Don't sell your welder, so you can extract the broken studs yourself. (I've had fantastic luck welding a nut over a broken stud, and the focused heat on the stud getting it loose easily. May have been able to do this with the manifold still on the engine). Thoroughly check the work of the machine shop you use for a job like this. Be thankful you didn't have any problems with the manifold nuts.
So the new manifold showed up today..
If you ever wondered what the whirring sound is after starting a 200 cold, it's the air injection motors running, and I THINK they ultimately push fresh air into the shiny formed metal pipe above and to the left of the main flange. I didn't get a good picture but each of the ports next to the exhaust port is lined up with a hole drilled into the head and I suspect those go to an area right near the exhaust valve port.
Anyway, no cracks..
I also noticed that these manifolds aren't exactly built for incredible flow. Not that I'm complaining about horsepower, but when you look at the rear port they could have done a much better job of optimizing the flow out of the stubby tube. I leave room for the possibility that they did this on purpose.. they do know a LOT more than me.
Anyway.. all buttoned up with lots of Nickel-based anti-seize on the manifold nuts, downpipe studs and nuts, spring bolts at the rear of the downpipe... nowhere it'll foul an O2 sensor, but it should keep these fasteners moving if I ever need to tear it apart again.
Bolted together, started it up and burnt the shipping oil off.. no CELs or VSC lights, no leaks, no heat shield rattles, bring on another 130k miles of my starter not crapping out on me.
Lessons? Use more PB blaster. Don't sell your welder, so you can extract the broken studs yourself. (I've had fantastic luck welding a nut over a broken stud, and the focused heat on the stud getting it loose easily. May have been able to do this with the manifold still on the engine). Thoroughly check the work of the machine shop you use for a job like this. Be thankful you didn't have any problems with the manifold nuts.
Didn't see this project until now. Wow, snowballed. That's not kidding at all. It's no wonder professional shops charge as much as they do. Yes, they charge even more, but it's partly due to incidental situations like this that cannot be foreseen. Sorry about the challenges, but glad you were resourceful enough to tackle it and win in the end.
You're in Texas. Pretty arid environment like CA without too much rust. I'd hate to tackle this job on a vehicle from the snowbelt.
In regards to the ports. It's almost always by design. OEMs spend millions paying attention to details and analyzing things that aftermarket shops don't even have the first clue about. Which is why I prefer OEM whenever possible.
You're in Texas. Pretty arid environment like CA without too much rust. I'd hate to tackle this job on a vehicle from the snowbelt.
In regards to the ports. It's almost always by design. OEMs spend millions paying attention to details and analyzing things that aftermarket shops don't even have the first clue about. Which is why I prefer OEM whenever possible.
bloc
SILVER Star
This thing did spend the first 100k of its life in Tennessee so not quite texas, but it is virtually rust free. There are tiny spots on a couple things to suggest ski trips or whatever, but yeah I agree.. doing this procedure on a rust-belt truck? I'd have a manifold on hand before I started the job. Also agree on why shops charge so much for work like this.
I haven't climbed under to do the starter yet but I assume if you were just doing the solenoid there wasn't enough clearance to just remove that without getting the whole starter out?
bloc
SILVER Star
TBH I'm not entirely sure.. as the job progressed the manifold had to come off and once that happened there was a ton of room. That said the noid is on the top of the starter tucked well under the manifold, so even if you didn't remove the entire starter from that area, (which could save some work getting the downpipe out of the way) you would need to unbolt it from its position on the side of the block and manipulate it around to get access to the solenoid. Even if you did that, the manifold heat shield would need to be removed, and to do that you have to remove the dipstick tube.
What I can say is that if you leave the manifold in place, getting the heat shields off the starter (which is necessary to remove the starter power cable and solenoid) will be a total bitch. Two of the three bolts are easy to get at.. the third... I consider myself pretty patient working on cars and am happy toyotas are generally built to be easy to work on. Toyota CLEARLY meant for the manifold to come off, based on that bolt alone.
Finally got a 5th rock warrior, thanks to @duggy for mounting and an alignment -- I'm no longer a poser with an OEM spare!
But then again all of these LRA aux tank posts (and that Slee swingout rear bumper) make me go hmm...
An extra 24gal wouldn't be the worst thing to have on hand during hurricane season.
But then again all of these LRA aux tank posts (and that Slee swingout rear bumper) make me go hmm...
An extra 24gal wouldn't be the worst thing to have on hand during hurricane season.
afgman786
SILVER Star
Took off the running boards to help with appearance and not worry about smacking them on the trail next weekend.
I’m going to have to do same soon. How long did it take?
Markuson
SILVER Star
Removal is super easy on the LC.
Should take maybe 15 minutes max.
-Crawl under and remove all bolts.
-Steps are super light, so even letting them rest on you as you lay under with a socket wrench is no problem.
-Once it’s off...just screw the bolts back into the holes they came from.
Best FREE mod for wheeling there is.
More to it on an LX since it extends into the lower body panel...but LC is a piece of cake.
Thanks Markuson. Did same to my 100 series last month. It was a lot harder than you describe.
Markuson
SILVER Star
Really? What year 100 series?
I took them off my 100 many moons ago too, but don’t remember anything tricky on my 99.
Just realized my 200 steps are still in the garage. Man those things are LIGHT. No wonder they get mangled...
My 100 series is a 2000 LC. There was a bolt on the passenger rear that was difficult to get a wrench on. I had to remove the large rubber grommet on the frame to get to it. WTS they were stuck on with 20 years of mud and grime.
Loving the new smilies.
Markuson
SILVER Star
My 100 series is a 2000 LC. There was a bolt on the passenger rear that was difficult to get a wrench on. I had to remove the large rubber grommet on the frame to get to it. WTS they were stuck on with 20 years of mud and grime.
Loving the new smilies.
Ha! Smilies...
Ya, I get teased for my use of smilies...specifically the winking smilie! Lol. It never even occurred to me that some people use winks to flirt? lol!! In my family, a WINK is like a punctuation mark at the end of a friendly comment.
So hear ya... Markupoop is not flirting when he adds a
! Lol
So would common advice be to remove the OEM boards to prevent damage, or leave on as some mediocre amount of protection when off roading. Guess what I mean... I don’t in any way expect them to work as sliders. Question is, if you tale a slight hit, would factory boards have more likelihood to reduce damage, or will their flimsiness make damage more likely?
I think they could be hit and bent into the body in certain instances where you would clear the obstacle without them at all
