Builds PLC build (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter FF LC FREAK
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- Thread starter
- #62
Version 2.0
Painted and installed with 18 hours to spare!
Painted and installed with 18 hours to spare!
- Thread starter
- #63
It's been awhile!
Cruisin the Woods went well, but unfortunately, I didn't really get to wheel - long story. Boots and I were able to hit a couple of quick trails on our way out to our checkpoint on Saturday, but they weren't that hard. However, everything worked great! The only thing I wasn't happy with was my gearing. I really noticed it on steep downhills with the auto tranny. It took a lot of braking to go as slow as I wanted. 1st gear low range isn't slow enough. It puts an Orion pretty high on my list. It was originally on my list at the beginning of this build, but as costs kept mounting, it dropped off for the time being.
I've been daily driving this lately. Yesterday I drove about 150 freeway miles at 70-75 mph. Steering and suspension worked great. It is as stable as can be at those speeds.
My brakes recently started squealing a little bit. I checked the fronts, and the pads were good. The rear drums needed adjustment. When I pulled off the drums, I found 2 weeping wheel cylinders - 1 on each side. I rebuilt them a couple of years ago. That's when I said enough is enough. I'm tired of adjusting the drums and dealing with wheel cylinders. A quick PM and phone call to @Poser, and a package showed up in the mail a few days later. A couple of days later, I got a package from Rock Auto with calipers.
Thanks Steve!
Now I just need to find the time to install them.
Cruisin the Woods went well, but unfortunately, I didn't really get to wheel - long story. Boots and I were able to hit a couple of quick trails on our way out to our checkpoint on Saturday, but they weren't that hard. However, everything worked great! The only thing I wasn't happy with was my gearing. I really noticed it on steep downhills with the auto tranny. It took a lot of braking to go as slow as I wanted. 1st gear low range isn't slow enough. It puts an Orion pretty high on my list. It was originally on my list at the beginning of this build, but as costs kept mounting, it dropped off for the time being.
I've been daily driving this lately. Yesterday I drove about 150 freeway miles at 70-75 mph. Steering and suspension worked great. It is as stable as can be at those speeds.
My brakes recently started squealing a little bit. I checked the fronts, and the pads were good. The rear drums needed adjustment. When I pulled off the drums, I found 2 weeping wheel cylinders - 1 on each side. I rebuilt them a couple of years ago. That's when I said enough is enough. I'm tired of adjusting the drums and dealing with wheel cylinders. A quick PM and phone call to @Poser, and a package showed up in the mail a few days later. A couple of days later, I got a package from Rock Auto with calipers.
Thanks Steve!
Now I just need to find the time to install them.
Can you let us know the full cost of the rear disc conversion? I’m debating on putting an ARB in the back and considered doing the rear disc while I had the shafts pulled. Thanks
Awesome! Did steve recommend a proportioning valve? I know that I don’t have one and I can lock up my rear discs in a panic braking
- Thread starter
- #66
This is the list that Steve gave me:
Caliper brackets and mounting hardware are 86.00us
Modified/machined and ready to go rotors are 45.00us each, 90.00us for the pair.
Caliper hoses/banjo bolts/copper sealing washers are 36.00us each, 72.00us for the pair.
Tombstone hose mounting tabs and clips are 8.00us each, 16.00us for the pair.
Rear axle seals are 10.00us each, 20.00us for the pair.
Diff cover gaskets are 10.00us each.
I bought 2 calipers from Rock Auto for ~$32 each (core included since I didn't have cores to begin with). Pads are $25ish.
All told, it's not cheap, but not having to mess with drums anymore will be priceless!
Yes, he did say I should add a proportioning valve. I already have a variable/adjustable one, so I didn't include it in the cost above.
I'm looking forward to getting these installed, but my schedule is pretty full until about mid November. Then I'll have some time to tear back into this project.
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proportioning valves, if the vehicle is all drum to begin with - you should try without the valve (or all disk for that matter) All adjustable proportioning valves reduce the flow by 40% then up to 90% (this depends on the manufacturer to some degree) with the turn of the knob. Not all vehicles need it, for example, drum/drum systems can already reduce the flow at the master cylinder by simply having a smaller exit hole in the body... add 40-90% reduce and you'll wonder why, even after you holed (took the guts out) of the proportioning valve that you're still having trouble getting the back brakes to work.
Another cheap fix is adjust the system with different types of pads front and rear - in general, longer-life-pads are harder, so if you, say, want to stop the rear from locking up, put the cheapest pads you can find on the front and longer life on the back if that first adjust needs more (read, shortest warranty) the front will brake harder and then you won't be locking up brakes as often....
On my fj40 - no proportioning valve, all disk.... I've never locked the rears up. On my Corvettes, I don't use proportioning valves because it's really not needed - ESPECIALLY since those valves can have trouble if they get overheated (which happens on race cars and never on the street).... in case you're curious, I use dual cylinders with an adjustable rod between the two masters to adjust front/rear bias... and rarely move it off center.
Another cheap fix is adjust the system with different types of pads front and rear - in general, longer-life-pads are harder, so if you, say, want to stop the rear from locking up, put the cheapest pads you can find on the front and longer life on the back if that first adjust needs more (read, shortest warranty) the front will brake harder and then you won't be locking up brakes as often....
On my fj40 - no proportioning valve, all disk.... I've never locked the rears up. On my Corvettes, I don't use proportioning valves because it's really not needed - ESPECIALLY since those valves can have trouble if they get overheated (which happens on race cars and never on the street).... in case you're curious, I use dual cylinders with an adjustable rod between the two masters to adjust front/rear bias... and rarely move it off center.
- Thread starter
- #68
I've been super busy with lots of different things lately (travelling for work, house projects, etc), so I have had very little time to work on my 40. Unfortunately, that seems to be happening a lot more often lately. However, I did make it up to our club's annual Christmas Tree Run this past weekend. We spent a few hours playing in the snow.
Unfortunately, while driving down the freeway heading to the meetup point, I heard and felt a loud bang from the rear end. Immediately, I had a vibration and a whirring noise. I got out and checked around but didn't see anything. It didn't get any worse as I drove, so I decided to continue on. I made it through the whole day with no other problems.
I had a couple of hours this morning to take a look. I pulled off the diff cover and immediately saw the problem. The 2 bolts that hold the cross pin in place backed out, sheared off and let the cross pin slide out. I guess I never felt the bolts shearing off. The loud bang was from the cross pin hitting the pinion. That hardened shaft didn't do the pinion gear any favors when it hit.
It took a nice chunk out of the air line.
Hard to see, but the pinion gear is chipped and gouged in the above picture.
I'm going to pull the third and get a better idea of damage. Obviously, I'll need some new parts for the locker. I'm hoping that I don't have to replace the ring and pinion. If it's salvageable, I'll swap it to the front. And while I have everything apart, I'll swap in the rear disk brakes.
Unfortunately, while driving down the freeway heading to the meetup point, I heard and felt a loud bang from the rear end. Immediately, I had a vibration and a whirring noise. I got out and checked around but didn't see anything. It didn't get any worse as I drove, so I decided to continue on. I made it through the whole day with no other problems.
I had a couple of hours this morning to take a look. I pulled off the diff cover and immediately saw the problem. The 2 bolts that hold the cross pin in place backed out, sheared off and let the cross pin slide out. I guess I never felt the bolts shearing off. The loud bang was from the cross pin hitting the pinion. That hardened shaft didn't do the pinion gear any favors when it hit.
It took a nice chunk out of the air line.
Hard to see, but the pinion gear is chipped and gouged in the above picture.
I'm going to pull the third and get a better idea of damage. Obviously, I'll need some new parts for the locker. I'm hoping that I don't have to replace the ring and pinion. If it's salvageable, I'll swap it to the front. And while I have everything apart, I'll swap in the rear disk brakes.
- Thread starter
- #70
I had time yesterday to further pull things apart. I had to cut the cross shaft to get it out. It was bent and wedged into the ring gear when I tried to pound it out with a brass drift. That probably saved the pinion, otherwise it would have slid out farther and really done some damage. After cutting it, I was able to knock it out no problem.
After getting the cross shaft out, I was better able to look at the pinion. It doesn't look as bad as I first thought. My plan at this point is to put it back together and run it to see how it does. I ordered up a new cross shaft and retaining bolts. They should be here in another day or two. I went to the hardware store and bought a compression union for the air line that was damaged. So far, it holds air just fine.
If everything works when I put it back together (I'm keeping my fingers crossed) I'll be into it for less than $70. I was expecting it to be a lot worse when I first opened up the diff cover.
While I was at it, I decided to mock up the rear disks. I'm excited to get it back together and try out the brakes.
And yes, Loctite will get used during re-installation. I don't want this happening again.
After getting the cross shaft out, I was better able to look at the pinion. It doesn't look as bad as I first thought. My plan at this point is to put it back together and run it to see how it does. I ordered up a new cross shaft and retaining bolts. They should be here in another day or two. I went to the hardware store and bought a compression union for the air line that was damaged. So far, it holds air just fine.
If everything works when I put it back together (I'm keeping my fingers crossed) I'll be into it for less than $70. I was expecting it to be a lot worse when I first opened up the diff cover.
While I was at it, I decided to mock up the rear disks. I'm excited to get it back together and try out the brakes.
And yes, Loctite will get used during re-installation. I don't want this happening again.
Great build and beautiful 40 man! We seem to think alike when it comes to routing things under the hood, kinda neat to see the similarities.
Btw, with regards to that top rad hose a suburban hose (I wanna say 2004ish) cut to fit works nicely and has the right radius coming up from the water pump.
D
Btw, with regards to that top rad hose a suburban hose (I wanna say 2004ish) cut to fit works nicely and has the right radius coming up from the water pump.
D
- Thread starter
- #72
Nice build Darwink! Looks good! And thanks for the info on the rad hose. I'll pick one up.
- Thread starter
- #73
I got the rear end and brakes buttoned up this last week. I had been waiting on parts for awhile. Seems the company I bought the locker parts from had them drop shipped from ARB in Atlanta. ARB, in turn, sent my parts to Nashville to some other person. Luckily, they sent a packing list with my name and number on it, and he was nice enough to forward it on. But with Christmas and all, it still took awhile to get everything. Regardless, I got it all back together with Red Loctite. Those bolts shouldn't be coming out again any time soon.
While I was waiting on parts, I got the rear disks all set up. I was hoping to put the brackets facing up to keep the caliper higher, but because of my SOA, the top caliper bolt wouldn't fit between the spring pack and slide in. Since I didn't want to remove my leaf pack every time I changed brake pads, I decided to mount the brackets pointing down. The major downfall of this is that the soft hose hangs down a bit below the axle. I'm thinking about building a skid plate of sorts to protect the hose from sticks or rocks that want to separate that hose from my caliper. I should also mention that I wanted the calipers on the back side of the axle for the same reason. That hose hangs down no matter what.
I decided to go without a proportioning valve to start with to see how it would work. I went with SBGs advice and bought long lasting semi-metallic brake pads. So far, it seems to be working perfectly. I haven't been able to lock up the rear yet, but it stops just as good if not a little better than before with the drum brakes. I don't have that many miles (or stops) on it yet, but as the pads bed in, it will likely improve.
In other news, I had noticed during the Christmas Tree Run that I had a little shimmy in the front end going around a couple of corners at speed. I didn't think too much about it, especially since I was more worried about the rear end that day. Fast forward to a couple of days ago, now that I'm driving this again, and that shimmy rears its ugly head once more. This time, it was much more pronounced. Not full on death wobble, but close.
I had a death wobble issue a couple of years ago after running the Rubicon. It turned out my steering studs had all worked loose. Even after completely rebuilding the front end (new bearings and all) I would still get death wobble now and again. My assumption was that I may have slightly bent a wheel on the Rubicon, and combined with these heavy tires caused the vibration. To back this up, I have taken the wheels to different tire shops to balance them, and no one can get them perfectly balanced. I ended up "fixing" my issue with a steering stabilizer. Since then, I haven't had any problems. Until now.
I started with the basics. Tire pressure, lug nut torque, and knuckle stud torque all checked out. Then I got to the u-bolts. The new u-bolts that I put on with the SOA. The same u-bolts that I re-torqued after about 100 miles of driving (I now have about 1300 miles on it since the SOA). They were barely finger tight! All 8 front u-bolt nuts took about 2 full turns to fully torque them down. No wonder I had issues! I then checked the rears, and got at most a quarter turn out of some of them.
Barring any more unforeseen issues, I think my next project needs to be fixing my rear wheel well so that my tires stop hitting the body. Then I can redo my bump stops since they are still set up for my 4 inch lift and woefully inadequate for how I'm now set up.
While I was waiting on parts, I got the rear disks all set up. I was hoping to put the brackets facing up to keep the caliper higher, but because of my SOA, the top caliper bolt wouldn't fit between the spring pack and slide in. Since I didn't want to remove my leaf pack every time I changed brake pads, I decided to mount the brackets pointing down. The major downfall of this is that the soft hose hangs down a bit below the axle. I'm thinking about building a skid plate of sorts to protect the hose from sticks or rocks that want to separate that hose from my caliper. I should also mention that I wanted the calipers on the back side of the axle for the same reason. That hose hangs down no matter what.
I decided to go without a proportioning valve to start with to see how it would work. I went with SBGs advice and bought long lasting semi-metallic brake pads. So far, it seems to be working perfectly. I haven't been able to lock up the rear yet, but it stops just as good if not a little better than before with the drum brakes. I don't have that many miles (or stops) on it yet, but as the pads bed in, it will likely improve.
In other news, I had noticed during the Christmas Tree Run that I had a little shimmy in the front end going around a couple of corners at speed. I didn't think too much about it, especially since I was more worried about the rear end that day. Fast forward to a couple of days ago, now that I'm driving this again, and that shimmy rears its ugly head once more. This time, it was much more pronounced. Not full on death wobble, but close.
I had a death wobble issue a couple of years ago after running the Rubicon. It turned out my steering studs had all worked loose. Even after completely rebuilding the front end (new bearings and all) I would still get death wobble now and again. My assumption was that I may have slightly bent a wheel on the Rubicon, and combined with these heavy tires caused the vibration. To back this up, I have taken the wheels to different tire shops to balance them, and no one can get them perfectly balanced. I ended up "fixing" my issue with a steering stabilizer. Since then, I haven't had any problems. Until now.
I started with the basics. Tire pressure, lug nut torque, and knuckle stud torque all checked out. Then I got to the u-bolts. The new u-bolts that I put on with the SOA. The same u-bolts that I re-torqued after about 100 miles of driving (I now have about 1300 miles on it since the SOA). They were barely finger tight! All 8 front u-bolt nuts took about 2 full turns to fully torque them down. No wonder I had issues! I then checked the rears, and got at most a quarter turn out of some of them.
Barring any more unforeseen issues, I think my next project needs to be fixing my rear wheel well so that my tires stop hitting the body. Then I can redo my bump stops since they are still set up for my 4 inch lift and woefully inadequate for how I'm now set up.
At least the rear soft lines are behind the axle. That should offer some protection in the normal forward direction. If you got longer lines and maybe even braided stainless stuff you could route them over the leafs and wouldn't need to make some kind of skid. I've got a store near me that does 3AN braided line at a decent price. They have all kinds of adapters that would easily interface with your calipers and your existing hardline. Then you could keep these rubber lines as trail spares.
I'd consider re-running those lines over top of the axle, especially those soft lines. Maybe run shorter soft lines, longer hard lines, and I'd even drill a hole through the perch(s) to run hard line through in order to protect them.
- Thread starter
- #76
I like your idea Mike. I've been thinking about what you wrote all morning. Basically, the soft lines are a banjo fitting at the caliper with a standard 10mm brake line fitting at the other end. The banjo fitting has maybe a 22 degree angle on it. What I really need is a banjo fitting with a 90 degree bend. That way, I could route the hose directly up beside the caliper. As it is now, I can re-route it, but the part that hangs down is right out of that banjo fitting. The rest of the line is somewhat protected behind the axle. Regardless of how I route it, that part will still be hanging down. With a 90 degree fitting, I can route it up and over either the spring pack or at least the shock mount.
Here's a couple more pictures to show what I mean.
This picture is pretty much level with the axle. No matter how I route the current line, it is still exposed inboard of the caliper.
A 90 degree fitting here would route the hose straight up, leaving it much less exposed.
Here's a couple more pictures to show what I mean.
This picture is pretty much level with the axle. No matter how I route the current line, it is still exposed inboard of the caliper.
A 90 degree fitting here would route the hose straight up, leaving it much less exposed.
Yeah, an elbow fitting at the banjo fitting or bent lines would work better.
In hindsight you could have also have installed them higher with different brackets maybe. Mount at 10:00 and 2:00, instead of at 7:30 and 4:30 looking at either axle from near the diff. Can you rotate the brackets and drill the flange?
In hindsight you could have also have installed them higher with different brackets maybe. Mount at 10:00 and 2:00, instead of at 7:30 and 4:30 looking at either axle from near the diff. Can you rotate the brackets and drill the flange?
- Thread starter
- #78
The brackets can be installed either up or down, in front or behind the axle. I didn't want them in front of the axle for reasons stated above. As I said, when they were installed facing up, the caliper bolt couldn't be installed into the caliper because of the spring pack.
If you look at the picture of the bracket in post #63, you can see there really isn't enough meat left to re-drill at a different location. As it is, you use 2 top bolts and 2 bottom bolts to secure the bracket. I'm going to try and get a brake line made with a 90 banjo fitting. Once that's done, I'll reassess.
If you look at the picture of the bracket in post #63, you can see there really isn't enough meat left to re-drill at a different location. As it is, you use 2 top bolts and 2 bottom bolts to secure the bracket. I'm going to try and get a brake line made with a 90 banjo fitting. Once that's done, I'll reassess.
- Thread starter
- #79
Recently, I swapped out my 2 inch drop pitman arm with a flat pitman arm to keep the tie rod end from hitting the spring. It was clocked differently, and therefore made my drag link a little too short for comfort. So, last week, I went up to @OldRocDoc 's Frankenlab. He was nice enough to make me some new heavy duty tie rods. 1.25" x .250" wall DOM. I hopefully won't bend those. Thanks Jack!
And installed.
I signed up for Cruise Moab last week also. I now have multiple projects I want to get done before the end of April. First up was fixing my rear wheel opening. I was bumping the rear quarter panel without even flexing much.
So, I marked up what I wanted to cut out.
Cut it out and welded it back together. This should give me plenty of room. Sorry, I didn't get too many pics while I was at it.
And today, I finished up the body work and painted it.
I obviously did the other side also.
I had paint left over, so I painted my scuffed and rusty running boards and front fenders. My front fenders take a beating as work bench.
Paint and body work are definitely not my thing. I really have a hard time being patient enough with sanding and prepping. So this is a 10 footer all the way. But I'm okay with that.
And installed.
I signed up for Cruise Moab last week also. I now have multiple projects I want to get done before the end of April. First up was fixing my rear wheel opening. I was bumping the rear quarter panel without even flexing much.
So, I marked up what I wanted to cut out.
Cut it out and welded it back together. This should give me plenty of room. Sorry, I didn't get too many pics while I was at it.
And today, I finished up the body work and painted it.
I obviously did the other side also.
I had paint left over, so I painted my scuffed and rusty running boards and front fenders. My front fenders take a beating as work bench.
Paint and body work are definitely not my thing. I really have a hard time being patient enough with sanding and prepping. So this is a 10 footer all the way. But I'm okay with that.
Looks great to me!
