A/C Clutch Bit the Dust - What to replace? (1 Viewer)

[Will Van]

I own a 3/1993 FZJ80 that originally came with R12 and has since been converted to R134 (I think). After my A/C quit working, and at the advice of a fellow enthusiast, I pulled the A/C pulley of my compressor in the hopes that I could just replace the bearing. After inspection, it's pretty apparent that the A/C clutch failed catastrophically and probably compromised the seals on the compressor itself.

What should I replace while I'm replacing the compressor? Condenser and dryer? Expansion valve too? Where is the best source for the replacement parts? OEM Toyota? Re-manufactured? Thanks in advance!

 

[flintknapper]

Yes, the unit has been converted to R134a fittings.

Yes, the clutch died a horrible death (part of the clutch coil embedded in the back side of the pulley).

How long ago did the A/C stop working and can you turn the bearing in the clutch pulley by hand (not seized)?

The front seal of the compressor is designed to be well insulated from any heat generated by the clutch (in normal operation). But...IF the pulley bearing seized and spun on the front cap boss (scoring it) then the compressor is done with.

If you remove the snap ring holding the clutch coil in place you can slide it off (might need to tap it a bit). That would give you a better look at the entire front of the compressor.

What you choose to do depends on your intended use for the vehicle and how much you want to spend.

It's possible that only the clutch is at fault and while I would expect a 25 yr. old compressor (if original) to have some leakage from the front seal..the unit itself might still be serviceable.

IF you plan to replace the compressor then replacing the condenser (for a style intended for R134a) would not be a bad idea. Of course, anytime you open the system up to atmosphere...you will want to replace the drier.

IF replacing other components...I would strongly suggest you remove the Evaporator...clean it or replace it and install a new TXV.

 

[inkpot]

X

 

[Tools R Us]

IIRC, the price of a "good" clutch is close to the price of a new Denso compressor, so not worth messing with the clutch? DENSO 4711166

Other than the fitting change from 12 to 134, all of the '80 factory/Denso condensers appear to be the same design. All have 3 circuits, kind of a parallel/serpentine hybrid type design, look exactly the same.

 

[flintknapper]

IIRC, the price of a "good" clutch is close to the price of a new Denso compressor, so not worth messing with the clutch? DENSO 4711166

Other than the fitting change from 12 to 134, all of the '80 factory/Denso condensers appear to be the same design. All have 3 circuits, kind of a parallel/serpentine hybrid type design, look exactly the same.

^^^^^ Agreed. Unless the OP had a reason he didn't want to open the system....a replacement compressor would be the way to go and the cost difference (clutch vs. compressor) is not that great.

A little research seems to indicate that the same condenser (factory 88460-60160) was used from 05/93 forward so...your suspicion appears correct.

 

[JeepinPete]

If you are going to R&R it, do it all at once. I didn't, and I've been into the system half a dozen times replacing the "other" parts I didn't do in the first place.

 

[GeoRoss]

This going to sound silly, but a thermometer will be extremely useful when charging. I’m only mentioning this because the $8 ones you get at a parts store probably need calibration. Since doing my AC system last year I’ve just kept the thermometer in the vent all the time. I’m a science geek and like data. A recent thread on R12 systems got me curious so I decided to get one for my 4Runner with R12 just for fun. There was some hinky stuff going on so I put both of them in the same vent. I found my original thermometer was reading about 8° warmer. They are simple to calibrate and I used a cup of water, alcohol thermometer and a 10mm wrench.

The good news is I found my R12 system runs about 40° in +105° ambient and the
Land Cruiser in the low 50’s. I was confused all last summer with 60° vent temps and thinking it felt fine.

Like I said this may be silly, but those cheap part store thermometers need to be confirmed.

 

[Dave 2000]

I use two thermometers, one is digital, the other is a calibrated wine making thermometer, (look for an immersion line for calibration), I too am a data hoarder, that way you post up facts and not guesses.

Regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Meant to add, consider changing the expansion valve.

Regards

Dave

 

[Red Merle]

If you are going to R&R it, do it all at once. I didn't, and I've been into the system half a dozen times replacing the "other" parts I didn't do in the first place.

After reading what you and others like @ZackR , @GeoRoss , @flintknapper , et al have gone through, I am going this route. The only things I won't replace are the hard lines, unless I mangle one upon disassembly. Seems like something I only want to do once.

On that note, I bought a gallon of this stuff to flush out the lines, but I am not quite sure how I am going to get this into the lines. I am thinking about starting with a simple hand pump and then blowing a metric f-ton of air through them, but I am not sure how well that will work. I was also thinking maybe some long pipe cleaners might work, but I am worried about leaving little fibers in there. Any thoughts?

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[GeoRoss]

After reading what you and others like @ZackR , @GeoRoss , @flintknapper , et al have gone through, I am going this route. The only things I won't replace are the hard lines, unless I mangle one upon disassembly. Seems like something I only want to do once.

On that note, I bought a gallon of this stuff to flush out the lines, but I am not quite sure how I am going to get this into the lines. I am thinking about starting with a simple hand pump and then blowing a metric f-ton of air through them, but I am not sure how well that will work. I was also thinking maybe some long pipe cleaners might work, but I am worried about leaving little fibers in there. Any thoughts?

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Go to auto zone or the like and borrow a flush kit. You pour your flush agent into a bottle and charge it with compressed air. Watch some YouTube to see the techniques. It is super easy. There is one line you mat need help with unless you have an albatross like reach.

 

[Red Merle]

Go to auto zone or the like and borrow a flush kit. You pour your flush agent into a bottle and charge it with compressed air. Watch some YouTube to see the techniques. It is super easy. There is one line you mat need help with unless you have an albatross like reach.

None of the local parts stores carry much in the way of AC service stuff for rent or buy. I think I live too far north for it to be a common thing. Do you have a link for something like what you are talking about that I could just buy? I already bought a set of manifold gauges and a vacuum pump off eBay and those should arrive next week. What you are saying makes sense, I am just not sure what type of flush kit I should buy. Cheaper is better because I think this will be a tool set that doesn't get a lot of use, but I also want it to work.

Any further advice would be appreciated!

I do not have albatross reach, but I spent 9 hours yesterday trying to flush the pink milkshake out a buddy's 4Runner(man, what a mess!) and he does have a long reach and he already said he would help me with this if I need it.

 

[flintknapper]

I am just not sure what type of flush kit I should buy.

https://www.mastercool.com/product/91046-a/

You can use it for more than just flushing A/C lines. Brake lines, fittings, reservoirs, anything you want to propel a liquid agent onto or through. I use mine for all kinds of things.

Just buy one, you will use it.

 

[Red Merle]

https://www.mastercool.com/product/91046-a/

View attachment 1764760

Perfect! Thanks! Man, there are so many different options for this stuff it can kinda make your head spin. I appreciate all of your and other's advice here to help us navigate through this.

 

[flintknapper]

Da Nada, happy to help. MUD members help me all the time.

 

[Will Van]

Yes, the unit has been converted to R134a fittings.

Yes, the clutch died a horrible death (part of the clutch coil embedded in the back side of the pulley).

How long ago did the A/C stop working and can you turn the bearing in the clutch pulley by hand (not seized)?

The front seal of the compressor is designed to be well insulated from any heat generated by the clutch (in normal operation). But...IF the pulley bearing seized and spun on the front cap boss (scoring it) then the compressor is done with.

If you remove the snap ring holding the clutch coil in place you can slide it off (might need to tap it a bit). That would give you a better look at the entire front of the compressor.

What you choose to do depends on your intended use for the vehicle and how much you want to spend.

It's possible that only the clutch is at fault and while I would expect a 25 yr. old compressor (if original) to have some leakage from the front seal..the unit itself might still be serviceable.

IF you plan to replace the compressor then replacing the condenser (for a style intended for R134a) would not be a bad idea. Of course, anytime you open the system up to atmosphere...you will want to replace the drier.

IF replacing other components...I would strongly suggest you remove the Evaporator...clean it or replace it and install a new TXV.

Thanks for all of the feedback. I'm definitely replacing the compressor with a Nippon/Denso unit. After consulting several different Toyota guys, A/C guys, and Mud guys, here is my plan: I'm going to crack open the system and inspect the lines for debris. I'm hoping that the compressor itself didn't explode, and the lines are clean. From there, I'm going to replace the compressor, drier, and expansion valve. As well as flush the evaporator while I have it out. Most people suggest hanging on to the OEM Toyota evaporator because it is exceptionally high quality and any replacement would probably be a downgrade.

I may replace the condenser too...but the condenser seems to be working well, and a new one is like $300. Do you think it makes that much difference to replace the condenser with one designed for R134?

 

[flintknapper]

I may replace the condenser too...but the condenser seems to be working well, and a new one is like $300. Do you think it makes that much difference to replace the condenser with one designed for R134?

New condenser should be more like $150.00

No need to replace it if yours is not leaking or obstructed. IF your Cruiser was made from 05/93 or onward...it has the same condenser (from what I can find online) as any other. There are more efficient designs these days (parallel flow) so if you decide to replace, then you might consider upgrading.

If the bottom of your evaporator is not corroded..then by all means keep it. You can clean the outside of it real well and reuse it. I would NOT flush the evaporator. It is very difficult to get all the flushing agent out of an evaporator.

 

[Will Van]

New condenser should be more like $150.00

No need to replace it if yours is not leaking or obstructed. IF your Cruiser was made from 05/93 or onward...it has the same condenser (from what I can find online) as any other. There are more efficient designs these days (parallel flow) so if you decide to replace, then you might consider upgrading.

If the bottom of your evaporator is not corroded..then by all means keep it. You can clean the outside of it real well and reuse it. I would NOT flush the evaporator. It is very difficult to get all the flushing agent out of an evaporator.

Roger that on the evaporator. I won’t flush it.

My truck is 3/1993, so it does NOT have the same condenser. Any more info on the parallel flow condenser upgrade? Where do you get them? Are they bolt-in/plug-and-play?

 

[flintknapper]

Roger that on the evaporator. I won’t flush it.

My truck is 3/1993, so it does NOT have the same condenser. Any more info on the parallel flow condenser upgrade? Where do you get them? Are they bolt-in/plug-and-play?

If you can wait a bit....@Dissent is putting a parallel into his unit and should have some information in the near future.

Micro-Tube Parallel Flow Condenser

 

[Red Merle]

Argh, so, I went back to AutoZone to see if they had one of the flushing kits for sale and it turns out they do rent them after all. They also have the manifold gauges and vacuum pump even though the bozo I asked there last week said they didn't. Oh well, the new units are already on their way and I would probably lose at least $30 shipping them back. Next time I am going to press them a bit if they seem unsure.

At least I didn't have to buy the flushing kit.