HDJ81 (1HD-T) vs HJ61 (12HT)...trying to make an "intelligent" decision (1 Viewer)

[george bluth]

I have my feelers out for either an HJ61 or an HDJ81 (since I can't have both...life is so unfair), and while I've seen a couple of '90-'92 HDJ rigs being sold by importers recently that look great, I continue to find myself drawn to the classic HJ61 and the overall charm of the 60 series. However, I would like to make this decision with the future in mind and consider the practicality of driving and maintaining a 25+ year old JDM diesel in the USA. If something breaks, I know neither will be easy to repair, but I am concerned primarily about parts availability, in particular for the 12HT of the HJ61. Whichever truck I find, I'd love to make it a daily driver (or as close to that as possible)...bearing this in mind, would the HDJ81 be a better choice? Whatever I get, I'd like to be driving it for the next 10 years at least, so any insight as to what would be a wiser long-term choice, I'm all ears.

For anyone who as driven both the HJ61 and the HDJ81, I'd like to hear your take on choosing one or the other.

 

[77cruiser77]

Go with the HDJ81, its dated enough already. If you want to look cool and dated get an HZJ77.

The 60's are becoming ancient and they're parts availability and pricing on those parts have long begun to reflect this.

 

[Loober]

Unless you want to standout go with HDJ81 can't beat the 1HDT motor. There are a ton of 80s on the road, which to an untrained eye look identical to the HDJ81, so you would blend in, unless that is not your intent.

 

[IanB]

HJ61 - leaf spring suspension, indirect injection, chassis/body/interior parts are getting harder to find

HDJ81 - coil spring suspension, direct injection, parts availability is still good

Either way you go, you'll want to keep an inventory of service parts on hand as they can't be had same day for the most part, and you're looking to make this a daily driver. You don't say where you live, but if there's winter conditions to consider my HDJ81 struggles to roll the windows up when the glowplug system is drawing (anytime I leave my work's parkade in the winter colder that -15C), I imagine the HJ61 would be no better, maybe worse.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

HJ61 - leaf spring suspension, indirect injection, chassis/body/interior parts are getting harder to find

HDJ81 - coil spring suspension, direct injection, parts availability is still good

Either way you go, you'll want to keep an inventory of service parts on hand as they can't be had same day for the most part, and you're looking to make this a daily driver. You don't say where you live, but if there's winter conditions to consider my HDJ81 struggles to roll the windows up when the glowplug system is drawing (anytime I leave my work's parkade in the winter colder that -15C), I imagine the HJ61 would be no better, maybe worse.

HJ61 12HT is direct injected. It's the HJ60 2H that is indirect injection.

12HT is a great motor, but parts availability is something I'd be very concerned about.

Toyota also improved a lot of things in the 1990+ cruisers. Stronger and more rust resistant frames. Thicker body metal and also more rust resistant. Front and rear disk brakes, bigger birfields, etc.

I'd go for the HDJ81. Just get the newest and lowest km one you can. One with the 1HDFT would be ideal.

Personally, as much as I hate IFS, I've been drooling over HDJ100's and KDJ120's (diesel version of the GX470). It's nice having a newer vehicle as a daily that does not need as much maintenance (I'm getting tired of wrenching on my old cruiser). Also, the newer diesels are more efficient and make more power out of the box. Of course we only have a 15 year rule in Canada, the US can't get these newer trucks for a long time yet I guess....

 

[george bluth]

My leanings have been confirmed...HDJ81 it is.

Now let’s see if I can find one that doesn’t have a damn aftermarket steering wheel.

Can anyone speak to the differences between the HDJ81 models produced ‘90-‘92 versus those produced in ‘93-‘96? I’m well-acquainted with the changes that occurred through the FJ80/FZJ80 production timeline, but the progression and changes of the HDJ81 over the years it was made seems to be different.

Were the later model HDJ81s improved in any significant manner that would make them worth waiting on for US import eligibility (besides the 1HD-FT)?

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

My leanings have been confirmed...HDJ81 it is.

Now let’s see if I can find one that doesn’t have a damn aftermarket steering wheel.

Can anyone speak to the differences between the HDJ81 models produced ‘90-‘92 versus those produced in ‘93-‘96? I’m well-acquainted with the changes that occurred through the FJ80/FZJ80 production timeline, but the progression and changes of the HDJ81 over the years it was made seems to be different.

Were the later model HDJ81s improved in any significant manner that would make them worth waiting on for US import eligibility (besides the 1HD-FT)?

I'm not a real expert, but I have heard that the electronic A442F tranmission is more desirable over the non electronic version. One big advantage is it can lock up the torque converter in 3rd and 4th gear. This means way less heat and power loss when climbing hills on the highway. I think the electronic version came out in late 1992? If it has an 'ECT' button, then it's electronic.

 

[IanB]

'90-'92 had smaller brakes, but all HDJ81's had full floating rear axles w/ rear disks, '93+ got the larger brakes same as FZJ80. 3X lockers were available on all years of HDJ81's, not just '93+. '90-'92 had a fully mechanical A442F transmission with torque converter lockup in 4th/OD only, '93+ got the electronically controlled A442F with OD on/off button, and torque converter lockup in 3rd and 4th/OD.

 

[tmarx]

HDJ81 every time ...

 

[absalom]

For looks? The HJ61. For everything else? The HDJ81.

 

[roscoFJ73]

I wouldn't get a 12HT unless I had a shed full of spares. Its a great old engine and likely to become very collectable one day, but for the everyday owner its heading towards obsolescence through lack of parts and in some countries legislators are circling around old diesels.

 

[george bluth]

I wouldn't get a 12HT unless I had a shed full of spares. Its a great old engine and likely to become very collectable one day, but for the everyday owner its heading towards obsolescence through lack of parts and in some countries legislators are circling around old diesels.

Roger that, I’m convinced the 12HT, despite all the positives I’ve read about it, is not for me. If I had money to burn I may take the risk and accept that the cost of operation/repairs and potential downtime would be high. I think a well-preserved 61 is better suited to a collector at this point, or someone who who knows these rigs inside and out. I, unfortunately, am neither.

Regarding diesel regulation, I don’t believe this is an issue in the USA for 25+ year-old vehicles. What countries are considering cracking down on old diesels at this point?

 

[IanB]

Roger that, I’m convinced the 12HT, despite all the positives I’ve read about it, is not for me. If I had money to burn I may take the risk and accept that the cost of operation/repairs and potential downtime would be high. I think a well-preserved 61 is better suited to a collector at this point, or someone who who knows these rigs inside and out. I, unfortunately, am neither.

Regarding diesel regulation, I don’t believe this is an issue in the USA for 25+ year-old vehicles. What countries are considering cracking down on old diesels at this point?

Germany is one that's looking at putting laws into place that are not pro-diesel.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Australian and German studies have shown that thousands of people are dying from cancers caused by diesel exhaust every year.
This would be the same for the US. I'm not suggesting all diesels are in imminent danger but certainly the older and dirtier ones.
Some groups in Australia are agitating for compulsory emissions testing.
Eventually those diesel pick ups in the US billowing black smoke are going to attract the attention of lawyers.
We are probably in a situation like the tobacco and asbestos industries were in the 1970s, ultimately doomed.

 

[Devils Paw 80]

Germany is one that's looking at putting laws into place that are not pro-diesel.

Which is ironic, since their government has been turning a blind eye to the sale of dirty diesels all over the EU by their major manufacturers- BMW, Volkswagen and Mercedes. It's the same deal as we've seen in the US with Volkswagen, except the cheating continues over there.

 

[george bluth]

Australian and German studies have shown that thousands of people are dying from cancers caused by diesel exhaust every year.
This would be the same for the US. I'm not suggesting all diesels are in imminent danger but certainly the older and dirtier ones.
Some groups in Australia are agitating for compulsory emissions testing.
Eventually those diesel pick ups in the US billowing black smoke are going to attract the attention of lawyers.
We are probably in a situation like the tobacco and asbestos industries were in the 1970s, ultimately doomed.

How old we talkin’? Do you think the ‘90-‘96 Land Cruiser models fall within that category of doomed diesels?

I’d figured antique autos would not be subject to the same regulations as new cars as, I understand to be the case today. But I suppose that could always change.

Certainly makes me think twice about hunting down a diesel Cruiser.

 

[roscoFJ73]

I doubt it will happen any time real soon. But the studies are saying anything more than a 4-5 years old is dangerous to health. New trucks here all have a urea tank on the side above the fuel tank. The urea is injected into the exhaust flow. If it runs empty the computer turns the engine off. Its not fitted to passenger vehicles yet.
Its just talk at the moment, an overnight ban would send the automotive/transport industry into spasms
But my point was that the 12HT is a much dirtier engine than the ones made after it. Its why the 12HT only had a 6 year life span.
Who knows, some genius may get old diesels to run cleaner with some gadget.
The main thing some groups are pushing for is to have diesels tested to make sure they are at least up to the standard when they were sold new. Worn out or modified engines would be taken off the road first. Or maybe older diesels wont be allowed into cities, I think that is where Germany is heading.

 

[Mr Tibbs]

I just want to put my vote in for a HJ61, because I have one, and it's AWESOME!! Parts availability isn't as dire as some are saying here. So far I haven't run into a show stopper yet.

 

[VidereStudios]

Definitely a HDJ80/1. We can now get the 1993 version here in the U.S., which has me seriously looking. However:

Personally, as much as I hate IFS, I've been drooling over HDJ100's and KDJ120's (diesel version of the GX470). It's nice having a newer vehicle as a daily that does not need as much maintenance (I'm getting tired of wrenching on my old cruiser). Also, the newer diesels are more efficient and make more power out of the box. Of course we only have a 15 year rule in Canada, the US can't get these newer trucks for a long time yet I guess....

A HDJ100 is my grail Land Cruiser. I luckily have family in Europe. I am seriously considering buying a nice one there and storing it on the farm until I can bring it Stateside.

 

[Silveredition]

I am with @Mr Tibbs on this one! Go the hj61!! I have owned and/or driven petrol and diesel 60’s, 1hz, 1hdt / 1hdft 80’s and 1hdfte 100’s. The hj61 makes me happy every time I drive it - which is every day.... It now has 553000km’s. I am not a mechanic, and don’t have spare cash to throw around - which is why I drive the 60... And the fact that it is so cool!!!