Did my turbo die?! (1 Viewer)

[oszkari]

Hi,

This morning when I fired up my 80 series, I had the TBELT and the ENGINE OIL lights on. Checked the oil level and I barely had a tiny bit of oil on the edge of the dip stick. No leaking underneath or around the engine but I did find some oil like junk below and around the manual boost controller waste gate line. See pic attached. Can I have oil leaking from the waste gate line?!

Last time I have checked the oil level was 3 days ( 500km ) ago and it was on the middle of the range, so I have lost more than 1 Quart of oil since then.

Engine is 1HDT with stock turbo.

Thanks!

 

[Dirty Koala]

check the turbo oil supply and return lines for leaks.

 

[EngEngr]

To answer your question, no. The wastegate actuator has no contact with anything on the lube system.

If its not leaking from the supply/return or another seal, its consumption - power cylinder, turbo seals, valve guides.

It is possible to pull oil through the compressor seal and have that show up in your wastegate line. Pull the compressor outlet and check for oil streaking

 

[dan1554]

I would be very surprised if there wasn't a big oil spot under the cruiser or a bunch of smoke given that level of oil loss. Only other thing I can think to check is your coolant, in the off case its a head gasket issue.

Timing belt warning comes every 100,000km. You can reset it on the dashboard (hopefully after replacing it).

 

[oszkari]

N

I would be very surprised if there wasn't a big oil spot under the cruiser or a bunch of smoke given that level of oil loss. Only other thing I can think to check is your coolant, in the off case its a head gasket issue.

Timing belt warning comes every 100,000km. You can reset it on the dashboard (hopefully after replacing it).

Timing belt was replaced 5000km ago. Coolant level seems to be ok. No visible leak under the truck or in the engine bay(other than the spot under the manual boost controller). Zero smoke on idle, there is smoke in between shifting or when I'm gunning it but other than that no visible smoke when driving.

My IP recently got rebuilt, since then I started to notice that my truck is eating more oil than it used to.
Also my boost is going to the roof ( 20+ psi) but my EGT does not follow. With 14-15PSI my tops speed is around 80km/100km. Overall worse performance than before.

One more thing that I noticed is that lately my manual boost controller doesn't seem to do it's job. It was set to 19PSi, but now I can spool it up to 23+ or probably more if I'm not careful.

 

[oszkari]

To answer your question, no. The wastegate actuator has no contact with anything on the lube system.

If its not leaking from the supply/return or another seal, its consumption - power cylinder, turbo seals, valve guides.

Thanks! Will check supply/return lines tomorrow. I guess there is no easy way to check turbo seals/valve guides.

It is possible to pull oil through the compressor seal and have that show up in your wastegate line. Pull the compressor outlet and check for oil streaking

That may be the issue (or part of it). The waste gate line definitely has lube on it on the boost controller side. Something I did not have couple of days ago. My boost controller also stopped working recently...boost could go to the roof if I wasn't careful.

 

[oszkari]

I don't know if it's related but I'm throwing it out, just to be sure..So yesterday I was driving no apparent issues. This morning my oil was gone, and my 3 month old batteries were dead. I could crank the engine but voltage was below 11.1V.

For me it seems voodoo..but I'm optimistic that there is a logical explanation to everything, even to this.

PS: I also know how is when the engine is running on it's oil. Unfortunately I have experienced that as a result of the IP rebuild. Now I didn't feel anything similar.

Thanks again!

 

[dan1554]

I’m still convinced you would see smoke or leakage at > 1qt in 3 days. Again the only other place I can think it would go is in to your coolant. Check for oil in your radiator or reservoir. Did you change oil recently? Was the filter volume accounted for?

That timing belt light will go on at the x00,000 mark no matter if you replaced the belt or not. Just have to reset it.

 

[oszkari]

I’m still convinced you would see smoke or leakage at > 1qt in 3 days. Again the only other place I can think it would go is in to your coolant. Check for oil in your radiator or reservoir. Did you change oil recently? Was the filter volume accounted for?

That timing belt light will go on at the x00,000 mark no matter if you replaced the belt or not. Just have to reset it.

Oil was changed around 5000 km ago. I'm using Amsoil so I usually do oil change around 7K. I topped it up with a quart around 2K ago. A 1k later half of that quart was gone.

My coolant level was ~1-1.5 inch below full, I will check the coolant tomorrow to see if there is any visible contamination.
You are right, it scared me once already at 200K Now I'm at 267000km.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Do you have the crankcase ventilating to air intake as per standard?

It's common for oil from the crank case vent to find is way to the wastegate line. If you have a manual boost controller, it will be getting dirty, sticky oil through it, they can clog up.
This doesn't explain loss of oil, but it may explain change in max boost you are seeing.

An increase in boost will typically reduce your EGTs (unless the turbo is way outside its efficient range), more boost increases the AFR, leaner mixture, lower combustion temp.


Your stock turbo is running in VERY dangerous territory.
It's generally considered suspect above 15psi. I had one running at 18psi, but it would push to 22psi. It went POP like a hand grenade at 22psi, the result was a full rebuild on the engine after it chewed up, and spat out the turbo compressor wheel.
Above 18psi, it's pretty much going to be blowing super heated air, and screaming like a tabby with its nuts in a vice. At high engine RPM, the turbo rpm will be off the chart, and it will be choking, and at danger of going POP.
When mine blew, the engine started to run on its own oil, I was able to shut it down before it too grenades.

I'd suggest do some reading over in the diesel tech section

 

[mudgudgeon]

Smoke when you are gunning it possibly indicates an overly rich tune.
What EGTs do you see in that scenario?

 

[oszkari]

Smoke when you are gunning it possibly indicates an overly rich tune.
What EGTs do you see in that scenario?

I cannot bring my EGT over 1000F even on a long steep hill. Mind you that I play with the throttle so I control my max boost ~14-15psi, but even if it jumps to 20psi for a second the EGT will not follow. Normally the EGT is between 600-800F. When it's really cold (-20c or below) EGT drops 200F.

I have got a pre turbo EGT, no intercooler, 3" exhaust.

In my IP the star wheel is maxed out clockwise (minimal spring tension) but my aneroid pin barely travels halfway down.

 

[oszkari]

Do you have the crankcase ventilating to air intake as per standard?

It's common for oil from the crank case vent to find is way to the wastegate line. If you have a manual boost controller, it will be getting dirty, sticky oil through it, they can clog up.
This doesn't explain loss of oil, but it may explain change in max boost you are seeing.

I don't know if it is as per standard, what I do know that it wasn't touched for the past 6 years or so since I own the cruiser. How can I check?

Sounds logical. My boost controller is sticky from oil so something definitely came up on the wastegate line.

An increase in boost will typically reduce your EGTs (unless the turbo is way outside its efficient range), more boost increases the AFR, leaner mixture, lower combustion temp.

Your stock turbo is running in VERY dangerous territory.
It's generally considered suspect above 15psi. I had one running at 18psi, but it would push to 22psi. It went POP like a hand grenade at 22psi, the result was a full rebuild on the engine after it chewed up, and spat out the turbo compressor wheel.
Above 18psi, it's pretty much going to be blowing super heated air, and screaming like a tabby with its nuts in a vice. At high engine RPM, the turbo rpm will be off the chart, and it will be choking, and at danger of going POP.
When mine blew, the engine started to run on its own oil, I was able to shut it down before it too grenades.

I'd suggest do some reading over in the diesel tech section

I'm aware and worried about the high boost, but I don't know how can I bring it down without running entirely on air
I can also clean/replace the boost controller but I think by doing that I will just patch instead of fixing the problem. I changed my boost controller 3 months ago, the other one that I have used for years stopped working after my newly rebuilt IP failed on me. After a 1000km the cruiser started running on its own oil... I certainly don't want to go through that experience again...

After this experience I realized that if I want to keep my cruiser (which I intend to do) I will have to learn everything I can so I can service it myself. Thanks to this forum, in 6 months I managed to install the IP, change timing belt, rebuilt my front axle and I have installed a Webasto block heater.

Im learning as much as I can, but it's a steep learning curve. Any direction/help would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[mudgudgeon]

I cannot bring my EGT over 1000F even on a long steep hill. Mind you that I play with the throttle so I control my max boost ~14-15psi, but even if it jumps to 20psi for a second the EGT will not follow. Normally the EGT is between 600-800F. When it's really cold (-20c or below) EGT drops 200F.

I have got a pre turbo EGT, no intercooler, 3" exhaust.

In my IP the star wheel is maxed out clockwise (minimal spring tension) but my aneroid pin barely travels halfway down.

What happens with EGT and boost on a long steep hill if you stand on the throttle, and don't let up?

Auto, or manual trans?


Boost is a byproduct (loosely) of fuel being burnt. Combustion heat and exhaust gas volume drive the turbo. More fuel in a diesel equals more combustion heat & more gas, and more energy to drive the turbo, more boost, so more air being pumped in to the engine, which equals cooler combustion temps, and potential to add more fuel and keep the whole merry go round spinning.

Normally, you'll see high boost when you have full throttle, low RPM, and a high load on the engine (steep hill, or taking off from lights), this is also when you see high EGTs as you have less airflow at low RPM, and lots of fuel, so lots of heat. When cruising, you have the opposite, very little throttle, so not much fuel, not much drive energy, not much boost.

You can limit boost through tuning by reducing fuel, but you also limit power output (backing off the throttle does the same).
A waste gate, and or boost controller lets you have your cake and eat it too. Let's you have fueling at a level that makes power, but you cut the boost at a level that's safe for the turbo.
Too much fuel raises EGTs, adding more boost lowers EGTs.

1000f is very safe for EGTs, IF that is PEAK EGT in a high load, full throttle scenario (long steep hill, hauling a load).

Ideally you tune for good power, and acceptable fuel economy. A fail safe tune lets you stand on the gas without having to watch gauges, and without having to back off the throttle to limit boost, or to control EGTs.

 

[mudgudgeon]

A quart is roughly 1 litre yeah? If that was being burnt in the space of 500km, you'd see a lot of smoke IMO.

on my HDJ81, the rigid oil supply line to the turbo cracked, and I lost a stack of oil in a very short space of time. It left a puddle though, and the side of the block was coated in oil

 

[EngEngr]

High boost will also increase peak firing pressure which can lift the head or blow the gasket. Another reason to check coolant.

Usually a compressor seal will leak when the air filter restriction is high and your compressor inlet pressure is less than crankcase pressure (or the pressure in the turbo center section)

 

[oszkari]

What happens with EGT and boost on a long steep hill if you stand on the throttle, and don't let up?

Boost builds up very quickly even on flat. I'm already around 7-8psi when the EGT starts to move at all. Between 10psi and 15psi (1500rpm -2400 rpm) I get the most power, the 15psi-23 psi range doesn't seem to add any additional power (increase in speed/RPM) or EGT.

The truth is that I have never waited to see what the max EGT would be under load and/or full throttle, because whenever my boost gauge passed 20-23psi I just eased on the throttle to protect my turbo. I tried to be around top 14-15psi under any condition, that landed me on 600-800F zone on flat and around 1000F on a long steep hill.

Transmission is Manual. Turbo kicks in around 1400 RPM.

Thanks for the explanation!
Before the IP rebuild the boost and EGT moved in tandem. Now definitely it's not the case. Boost is moving twice as fast as the EGT. I thought that means that I'm under fuelled. However what you said is logical, more fuel generates more boost. If I want to limit boost I will have to cut back fuel. But then I will loose power...which I really don't have that much compared to what I used to have.

Do you think it's possible that my current pump tune is causing this significant oil loss?

 

[EngEngr]

If you want to limit boost (and protect your turbo from overspeed and wheel burst) , you need a functioning wastegate. It sounds like your boost controller isn't letting any air through to the actuator.

Pulling back fuel is a solution but not a fix for why you're over boosting.

 

[oszkari]

A quart is roughly 1 litre yeah? If that was being burnt in the space of 500km, you'd see a lot of smoke IMO.

on my HDJ81, the rigid oil supply line to the turbo cracked, and I lost a stack of oil in a very short space of time. It left a puddle though, and the side of the block was coated in oil

When I last checked, oil level was right in the middle between L and F. 500Km later I had barely anything on the dipstick. I would say that is about 1 liter of oil that went missing. Would you agree ?

One more thing to add. Once I installed my current IP, I took the cruiser to a shop for a compression test and to make sure that the valve clearance is alright. I wanted to make sure that the engine didn't suffer any damage due to the previous IP failure. Results were within spec.

This was the first longer trip (around 2000km) I have done with the new IP and I have noticed a significant oil loss by the end of the trip. I had to top it up with a quart if I remember correctly.

I also noticed that the engine block was wet at sections around the valve cover. At that time I thought it was because to cover was removed for the valve clearance check and perhaps the seal got damaged so I have changed the rubber seal. Around another 3000km later I had to top up with another quart. I still saw wet portions around the valve cover so I checked the valve cover bolts, some of them seemed to be looser so I retighted them.

I didn't clean the engine since then so I still have visible oil marks around the valve cover but they are not leaving wet mark on my finger. I will double check it again this morning.

Whatever is causing my oil consumption it's getting worse, In a sense that I loose oil much faster.
Before my last 500km trip I have moved the star wheel 3 clicks clockwise. In a hope for more on boost power. Can this be the cause?!

I have around 8000km on the new IP. For the first 7000km I didn't touch it at all, then I removed one washer (I had 1 plastic +3 copper washers around the aneroid pin) and I went 6 clicks clockwise on the star wheel. Three clicks each time.

I hope I didn't add more confusion to the mix. Thanks again!

 

[dan1554]

Remove your mbc and run the pressure line directly to the actuator. Easy win for safe turbo pressure until you figure it out.