Marlin Crawler Land Cruiser Products (1 Viewer)

What Land Cruiser Specific Productions WOULD YOU BUY if we developed them?

  • Land Cruiser chromoly semi float axle shafts (C-clip)

    Votes: 3 3.8%
  • Land Cruiser chromoly axle shafts with C CLIP ELIMINATOR

    Votes: 2 2.5%
  • Land Cruiser full float conversion using LC or Mini Truck hubs/disks, using MC's double stud design

    Votes: 20 25.0%
  • Bring back the Toy Box for H41/H42/H55 to SPLIT CASE (2.28 or 4.70:1 gear reduction) w/ improvements

    Votes: 44 55.0%
  • 2F/3F/GM V8 to R150/R151 Mini Truck 5 speed to SPLIT CASE Adapter Kit

    Votes: 8 10.0%
  • 2F/3F/GM V8 to R150/R151 Mini Truck 5 speed Adapter Kit (requires centered mini truck case)

    Votes: 3 3.8%

  • Total voters
    80

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Marlin Crawler

Supporting Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2004
Threads
39
Messages
188
Location
Fresno CA
Website
www.marlincrawler.com
Hey 'Mudders!

2018 is going to be a big year for us, and one of the things we are most excited about is expanding our product lines. We are posting this poll to see how you guys feel about some of the ideas we've been kicking around.

We are not PROMISING to make any of these products and have no specific timetable, but we are getting a feel for what we can expect from the market. Please only respond to this poll if you REALLY WOULD BUY IT NOW IF IT WAS AVAILABLE. Use pricing equivalent products that are out there for other models of 4x4s to get a sense of what you would be signing up for. Please participate! This info could really translate into real products if you guys want it!

Marlin Crawler
 
Toy Box please.

Axle shafts are widely available, OEM H55F 5-speeds bolt right in without needing an adapter, and when upgrading to FF many of us would take it one step further and use an FJ-80 rear FF with disk brakes and retained E-brake.

And please only use OEM hardware and gaskets. We do notice the different in the various service kits you sell.

Thank you for considering the 60 Series market for your 2018 product line.
 
Toy Box please.

Axle shafts are widely available, OEM H55F 5-speeds bolt right in without needing an adapter, and when upgrading to FF many of us would take it one step further and use an FJ-80 rear FF with disk brakes.

And please only use OEM hardware and gaskets. We do notice the different in the various service kits you sell.

Thank you for considering the 60 Series market for your 2018 product line.

Noted all the way around, thank you for the feedback! We were thinking about the Pick Up 5 speed because they are plenty stout enough and available by the boat load at junkyards and Craigslist across the US. When we do our math on the cost to the customer, we suspect they could bolt a 5 speed into a 60 series for considerably less than dropping an H55 into one, even with our adapter parts. We could be wrong on this, but seeing as we still don't see a ton of H55 swaps, we figured it was worth throwing out there, as the conversion is possible. If using a center rear diff, like a GM 14 Bolt, it opens a 60 owner up to a smorgasbord of gearing options using readily available used parts available to the US market. These are our thoughts anyway.
 
Could be that many 60 owners are installing the H55F themselves and buying them from Toyota. It's a VERY popular upgrade in this Forum, even for 62 owners who have to change cross members and drive shafts. Which brings up the observation:

The combined length of an H55F and your Toy Box is less than an inch different than the stock A340F automatic. If you were able to match lengths it would save all the drive train mods for the 62 Series. Making a 5 speed conversion into a bolt together mod without welding would make it attractive to a much larger market. There are a lot more 62's than 60s out there. How about a kit for that?

Most of the V8 conversion threads I've seen use a GM automatic. If you were using a center diff rear axle, it would make sense to use a GM transfer case too and avoid needing any adapters (or NV4500 to dual case).
 
Something to think about, cost wise, for the 5spd conversion... Most of us can pick up the 5spd with everything needed and install ourselves for right around $3k (if I remember correctly, please someone correct me if I am wrong). Like @Juggernaught said, this is a direct swap, plug and play application for a large majority of the trucks out there and most of us will take the initiative to do it ourselves (not saying that we would necessarily do it properly!). So unless your 5spd conversion would add some other value-add; considerably cheaper, more widely available parts, etc., then most will look to the H55f. On top of that if we are doing a V8 swap (regardless of LS or SBC) and want the 5spd we would more than likely go with a GM 5spd (NV4500) over the H55 due to simple cost of everything. Along with your swap is the fact that you are talking about swapping a rear centered axle, many of us would not necessarily want to do that simply to add a 5spd to the mix when one is available with NEW toyota quality and requires very little modification.

I think something you need to ask yourself about your survey is who you are aiming these products at? Are you looking to offer these items more for the "crawler" market of users in 60s or are you looking for those of us with rather stock machines? Personally for me, none of those items, aside from possibly the FF conversion, are appetizing to me as I do not crawl. I do some offroading but nothing that has ever necessitated the use of the items you are offering. For me, I DD my truck for mainly short distances and those long distances that I do drive aren't more than a couple hours which grinding along at 65mph in 4th at just under 3k rpm does not bother my truck nor me. A 5spd would only add some more "driveability" to the vehicle for longer distances which make up a small percentage of what I do.

Again, opinions are like a$$holes... everyone has one but that doesn't make theirs the prettiest!
 
I would be down for a toybox that mates to the nv4500. But I might be in too small of a market for you to consider.
 
Most of us can pick up the 5spd with everything needed and install ourselves for right around $3k (if I remember correctly, please someone correct me if I am wrong).

A new trans. with tax, along with carpet, pedal bucket, driveshafts, clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, hydraulic bits, etc.? I'm at more like $5K for an FJ62, by the time you run down ever single little piece. $3K might do a late-model FJ60. You also have to run 33s with an H55 to get your overdrive back. I won't do anything until my FJ62s auto trans decides to die, however.

I don't have a feel for the gearing of an R150/151 and if I would like the 1st and 5th gear ratios. I'm also wary of putting a centered minitruck axle in an FJ60. Don't get me wrong - I'm totally intrigued by all this swap, but I'd have to see some real-world anecdotal information (total costs, driving appeal, cleanliness of installation) before I could even conclude that I would want it.
 
Could be that many 60 owners are installing the H55F themselves and buying them from Toyota. It's a VERY popular upgrade in this Forum, even for 62 owners who have to change cross members and drive shafts. Which brings up the observation:

The combined length of an H55F and your Toy Box is less than an inch different than the stock A340F automatic. If you were able to match lengths it would save all the drive train mods for the 62 Series. Making a 5 speed conversion into a bolt together mod without welding would make it attractive to a much larger market. There are a lot more 62's than 60s out there. How about a kit for that?

Most of the V8 conversion threads I've seen use a GM automatic. If you were using a center diff rear axle, it would make sense to use a GM transfer case too and avoid needing any adapters (or NV4500 to dual case).

H55 swaps are awesome, we've done a few, and while they're popular here on 'Mud, when you look at the wider world of FJ60s you see them overrepresented here due to cost and Toyota-nerd factor.

Your 62 conversion comment warrants consideration.
 
Something to think about, cost wise, for the 5spd conversion... Most of us can pick up the 5spd with everything needed and install ourselves for right around $3k (if I remember correctly, please someone correct me if I am wrong). Like @Juggernaught said, this is a direct swap, plug and play application for a large majority of the trucks out there and most of us will take the initiative to do it ourselves (not saying that we would necessarily do it properly!). So unless your 5spd conversion would add some other value-add; considerably cheaper, more widely available parts, etc., then most will look to the H55f. On top of that if we are doing a V8 swap (regardless of LS or SBC) and want the 5spd we would more than likely go with a GM 5spd (NV4500) over the H55 due to simple cost of everything. Along with your swap is the fact that you are talking about swapping a rear centered axle, many of us would not necessarily want to do that simply to add a 5spd to the mix when one is available with NEW toyota quality and requires very little modification.

I think something you need to ask yourself about your survey is who you are aiming these products at? Are you looking to offer these items more for the "crawler" market of users in 60s or are you looking for those of us with rather stock machines? Personally for me, none of those items, aside from possibly the FF conversion, are appetizing to me as I do not crawl. I do some offroading but nothing that has ever necessitated the use of the items you are offering. For me, I DD my truck for mainly short distances and those long distances that I do drive aren't more than a couple hours which grinding along at 65mph in 4th at just under 3k rpm does not bother my truck nor me. A 5spd would only add some more "driveability" to the vehicle for longer distances which make up a small percentage of what I do.

Again, opinions are like a$$holes... everyone has one but that doesn't make theirs the prettiest!

Opinions are what we are looking for here, so don't worry!

Obviously we are aiming at the aftermarket/modified crowd, much in line with the rest of our product line. We already offer a pretty good array of products for Land Cruisers as is, and some of our mods are very popular. The R150/R151 sway does have practical application, but it isn't a purist approach, that's for sure. Still a good transmission. Having driven many Land Cruisers with 4 speed, a 5 speed changes everything.
 
I'll confirm that a DIY H55f swap into a 4/85 and later FJ60 will be about $3,000. Mine was about $350 less because I bought my new H55f from Cdan about four years ago for $1,850, including tax. The price has gone up since then.
 
Most of us can pick up the 5spd with everything needed and install ourselves for right around $3k (if I remember correctly, please someone correct me if I am wrong).

A new trans. with tax, along with carpet, pedal bucket, driveshafts, clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, hydraulic bits, etc.? I'm at more like $5K for an FJ62, by the time you run down ever single little piece. $3K might do a late-model FJ60. You also have to run 33s with an H55 to get your overdrive back. I won't do anything until my FJ62s auto trans decides to die, however.

I don't have a feel for the gearing of an R150/151 and if I would like the 1st and 5th gear ratios. I'm also wary of putting a centered minitruck axle in an FJ60. Don't get me wrong - I'm totally intrigued by all this swap, but I'd have to see some real-world anecdotal information (total costs, driving appeal, cleanliness of installation) before I could even conclude that I would want it.

We are a long way from having everything priced out, but my estimations on total cost of an H55 swap are closer to your estimate for the completed job. That doesn't mean it isn't worth it, just more out of reach for some. Some of the cost of doing this swap is unavoidable, but using a readily available transmission definitely lowers the price of admission to a 5 speed.

I also wouldn't put a mini truck axle under a Land Cruiser. Blasphemy I know, but if I were to bother, I'd want an upgrade in strength, so a GM 14 bolt or a Dana 60 would be the only way to go.
 
Toy Box

Someone already mentioned the NV4500 to split case, 4L65E to spit case would also be something to consider.

Vortec & Crate motor V8 swaps are damn near common. Arguably the leading non Toyota swap being done in 60/62/80 series. It would be an easy sell to my customers as it would replace the adapter.
 
@Marlin Crawler

I voted Toy Box in your poll.

I've had a Toybox for 8-9 years now. It is the single best mod ever for a Wagon used as a rock crawler. I can't stress enough how awesome it is, and how nice it would be to have as an available option again, especially as I'm contemplating a new build.

Replacement FJ60 length rear shafts are also something I would welcome and would buy a set today if they were available. "C" clip would be fine.

Replacement 80 series knuckle balls would also be cool for use with custom high strength housings like those from Ruff Stuff.
 
Seeing as I've never driven an h55 (one day) I can't say anything about how it compares to the r tranny, but I will share my .02 on the R based on my experience driving and replacing the clutch on my brother's 93 t100.
The good:
I like the 1st and 5th gear ratios, and 2-4 seem to be in fitting places in between. Though probably best suited for the 3.0 with torque higher in the rpm band then the 2f, I think the engines are comparable enough to say that the tranny would be very satisfactory behind a 2/3f from a performance standpoint. the reverse synchros are basically nonexistent but I'd sooner blame that on the po than the build quality...as mentioned, I believe it's stout enough for the job.

The bad:
(And this could just be my experience with an abused t100) I'm not such a fan of the feel of the shift, ie it feels less like an H patten and more like an H patten (note the italics)...I assume b/c of the bench seat. I feel kinda like I'm trying to pick out a stuffed animal with a claw when shifting.
Im not impressed with the fact that there's not an inspection plate I can pull from the bottom.
Finally, and this is really the only deal breaker, I don't want to have to loose my offset diff. It's nice to have the 2 in line with each other and I see an axle swap as an unnecessary hassle for a tranny upgrade.

Curious, though, how well does the shifter hole line up with the shifter base?
 
if the cable lockers in my my BJ74 could be fitted in my 40 or 60 series it would be worth more than an ARB to me

They can... 60 series had cable lockers available in some countries and I’ve modified 40-series axles to retro fit them. Others have done this too. If you have the cable locking differentials then all you need are a full floater rear axle housing assembly and the long splined inner axle for the front/rear.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a full floater conversion kit. I thought Warn was making a kit very briefly.
 
FROR has both bolt on and weld on FF conversion kits.

The bolt on uses the 4 bolts through the brake backing plate flange. I don't see this as being strong enough and I doubt the flange was welded in place at the factory to tight enough tolerances to run a bearing spindle. Drum brakes don't require close tolerance.

The weld on slides a bung into the axle bearing race which is then welded. This approach is strong enough but I seriously doubt most home fabricators could get the spindles in perfect alignment and/or not warp the housing. This will result in prematurely worn bearings, constanly stressed axle shafts, bad handling, and short tire life. There's a reason Toyota machined the bearing races after all welding was completed.

I don't see a reliable way to convert a semi float to FF for less than the cost of replacing the housing with a factory built FF. Or one could buy a heavy duty Diamond axle in any width desired.

From Mud, I've gotten the impression that many of us daily drive our 60's rather than slowly modify and cut them up into buggies. But then I don't hang out in the Hard Core section. The values of 60's are rising steadily and the ROI is a real consideration.
 
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How long would the overall length of the bell house adapter, r150/151, and transfer case be?
 
FROR has both bolt on and weld on FF conversion kits.

The bolt on uses the 4 bolts through the brake backing plate flange. I don't see this as being strong enough and I doubt the flange was welded in place at the factory to tight enough tolerances to run a bearing spindle. Drum brakes don't require close tolerance.

The weld on slides a bung into the axle bearing race which is then welded. This approach is strong enough but I seriously doubt most home fabricators could get the spindles in perfect alignment and/or not warp the housing. This will result in prematurely worn bearings, constanly stressed axle shafts, bad handling, and short tire life. There's a reason Toyota machined the bearing races after all welding was completed.

I don't see a reliable way to convert a semi float to FF for less than the cost of replacing the housing with a factory built FF. Or one could buy a heavy duty Diamond axle in any width desired.

From Mud, I've gotten the impression that many of us daily drive our 60's rather than slowly modify and cut them up into buggies. But then I don't hang out in the Hard Core section. The values of 60's are rising steadily and the ROI is a real consideration.


And we are not sure what direction we would take, any of these options (outside of semi-float shafts) will require an investment in our own R&D to see if we can create something new and cost competitive with what is out there. It is true, the FROR kit is nice, but reusing the factory hubs and brakes from a 60 or mini truck front is not strong enough for heavy abuse. Their Diamond Flange setup is a really nice upgrade, however not unlock able, so there are already options. Marlin has methods of methods of modifying front hubs to make them much stronger, and if we were to do a FF kit it might include Aisin hubs that have been rebuild and modified by us, kinda like what we do for our transmissions and differentials. Again this is a thought exercise, and this
 
Toy Box please.

Axle shafts are widely available, OEM H55F 5-speeds bolt right in without needing an adapter, and when upgrading to FF many of us would take it one step further and use an FJ-80 rear FF with disk brakes and retained E-brake.

And please only use OEM hardware and gaskets. We do notice the different in the various service kits you sell.

Thank you for considering the 60 Series market for your 2018 product line.

Except for used, where are the Semi Float axles available? Trail Gear was making them. I haven't heard of a source for new, much less chromoly.
I contacted a few of the aftermarket axle companies in the US, including the one that was building for Trail gear. The numbers were too small to interest them without charging their full retail.
 

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