Failure to start (1 Viewer)

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Joined
May 15, 2013
Threads
14
Messages
59
Location
Dunnellon, Florida
Here we go and where to start. I have a 1997 FZJ-80 that I purchased 6 years ago and had really no problem with her until 3 years ago when I had near catastrophic brake failure all calibers locked up and brake booster failed. I replaced all the failed components and she was like new again. However, soon after in the summer two years ago she took a major power hit , possibly lightning. I suspect lighting due to the components like the ECM, radio, and the several other control modules. Also she was parked next to my boat that had several of its components fried as well.

I have replaced the ECM and all the other damaged components. Before I did anything I bought a new battery and a new fusible link. I also tested all the electrical down to the computer which one satisfied all well I hooked up the ECM and she started on the first attempt. She even blew out a huge wasp nest out of the tail pipe. I let her idle for about 20 mins then shut her off. On trying to restart she did turn over and made as if she was struggling to start but would not.

I suspected that the fuel was bad from sitting close to two years and that the fuel filter should be also replaced. So yesterday I drained the fuel tank and today I put on a new fuel filter. I suspect this was fuel filter had not been change is many years if not being the original filter. I say this because this was Toyota Denso Filter with Japanese writing on it. I put 5 gallons of fuel in her, tested the fuel pump and had positive flow. Never the less She did not start just turned over and sputtered.

I checked for spark from the igniter and coil and all systems go. Still a failure to start. I am thinking that the injectors may be clogged, any ideas? All is appreciated.
 
Fuel, Sparks and air are what you need so I would check that you have Sparks at the business end of the spark plugs. I have no idea what damage lightning could do to the plug leads but I wouldn't rule them out. Take a plug out and ground it to the block and see if you still have a strong spark. If so move on to the injectors. I haven't done this on my cruiser but I imagine you could remove the injectors and put the end in a container and see if it does it's thing. This should help you on to the next step.
 
Fuel, Sparks and air are what you need so I would check that you have Sparks at the business end of the spark plugs. I have no idea what damage lightning could do to the plug leads but I wouldn't rule them out. Take a plug out and ground it to the block and see if you still have a strong spark. If so move on to the injectors. I haven't done this on my cruiser but I imagine you could remove the injectors and put the end in a container and see if it does it's thing. This should help you on to the next step.
Yeah, the plugs and wires have not been replaced but I did resistance/continuity testing just a the igniter and coil too and was with limits. But to be safe I think I will replace the plugs and wires. I put a new distribute cap and rotor on recently. I am really think that it may be the injectors cause the spark is good.
 
y'all have a quick was to test the fuel pressure?
Yeah, the plugs and wires have not been replaced but I did resistance/continuity testing just a the igniter and coil too and was with limits. But to be safe I think I will replace the plugs and wires. I put a new distribute cap and rotor on recently. I am really think that it may be the injectors cause the spark is good.
I ran my diagnostic tool and no faults found
 
Have you checked the air intake side of the system? I reckon you have an air issue not fuel or spark but thats just guessing from the safe confines of a computer
 
y'all have a quick was to test the fuel pressure?

I thought it may be an air intake issue too. Being rural Florida and all all, plus blowing a huge wasp nest out of the exhaust. I thought maybe the infestation of wasp may be in the intake as well. I cracked open the air filter housing and poked around found no obstruction. I attached a picture of the blown out nest.
wasp nest.jpg
 
The fuel pump should put the fuel into your filter when you prime it by turning the key to ON (not start). To test this is occurring just loosen the fuel inlet line at the filter and if it wants to spray out then you have fuel pressure at least to the filter anyway.

There may be some gunk blocking the injectors but i would have thought it would fire up but splutter on less than 6 cylinders. The odds of all 6 being blocked is pretty low unless alot went through the injector lines. Can't rule it out without checking

If they are all clear, you have fuel pressure, your spark is good and air is flowing through the intake then maybe your ignition coil is bad.
 
The fuel pump should put the fuel into your filter when you prime it by turning the key to ON (not start). To test this is occurring just loosen the fuel inlet line at the filter and if it wants to spray out then you have fuel pressure at least to the filter anyway.

There may be some gunk blocking the injectors but i would have thought it would fire up but splutter on less than 6 cylinders. The odds of all 6 being blocked is pretty low unless alot went through the injector lines. Can't rule it out without checking

If they are all clear, you have fuel pressure, your spark is good and air is flowing through the intake then maybe your ignition coil is bad.

No - Toyota's (at least our 80s and a corolla I've worked on) do *NOT* run the fuel pump if the key is at ON but the engine is not running.

cheers,
george.
 
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No - Toyota's (at least our 80s and a corolla I've worked on) do *NOT* run the fuel pump if the key is at ON but the engine is not running.

cheers,
george.
well it must just be mine (although i didnt notice any aftermarket parts during servicing) as mine primes up on "on"

Either way prime the fuel pump to test the pressure
 
^ Well, your's is an Oz 80 which may be different than what is available in the US, but US 80s definitely do not run the pump if engine is off and you turn the key to ON (no engine running).

cheers,
george.
 
^ Well, your's is an Oz 80 which may be different than what is available in the US, but US 80s definitely do not run the pump if engine is off and you turn the key to ON (no engine running).

cheers,
george.


George, when DOES the fuel pump run? Does it do it during cranking or only after oil pressure comes up? I'm curious for future troubleshooting.
 
^ Runs during cranking or when engine is running (whatever the ECU deems as engine running...). That's why if you replace fuel filter etc it takes a whole bunch of cranking before the engine fires up (has to re-prime the fuel rail).

cheers,
george.
 
Hmmm...more US versus ROTW stuff, Spanish 80's run the pump for around five seconds when the ignition is turned on, then stops and waits for the crank signal to restart pumping. This primes the fuel rail as pressure would have dropped after a period of time with engine off.

Pretty much every FI engine here works this way, there are a couple about that only run at ignition on if the motor has been off for longer than X amount of time.

Regards

Dave
 
Ok, I spend a good part of the day rechecking the Ignition components again. I conducted resistance and continuity on the Igniter, Coil, and wires. All checked out within specs except for the coil that maybe at fault. I order a new one and should be at the Auto Parts Store in the morning. But in the bean time I did crack open the old fuel filter and it was kind of lie the filter backed a loaf of bread.
20171220_114124.jpg
 
Tank with rust and varnish, this may be a continual PITA until it is clear?

The pump may have a load of crap in it as well.

Once the aromatics leave the fuel the remains turn to a resin like substance, also any water or humidity settles on the fuel tank innards causing powdery rust, adding fuel simply washes the rust down to the pump pick up.

At this point I would remove the second row seats and open up the top of the tank. Shine a torch in there and see what the tank innards look like.

If you set a siphon going you can hoover the rust out along with any contaminated fuel, due to baffles you will not get all the rubbish out so a revisits may be needed. Check the pump pick up is clean, only then fit your new filter, and put fresh fuel in.

Nowadays this is a rare occurrence as most fuel tanks are made of plastic.

Regards

Dave
 
Thanks Dave, great suggestions. I did drain the tank of all the old fuel and was considering pulling the pump and cleaning it. Or at a minimum replacing the screen or bag strainer. I only refilled the tank with 5 gallons of fuel. I thought best to use high octane mix. In all likelihood I will probably drain the tank again and flush it with Diesel or Kerosene. A trick I leaned in the Army when we had the old M-151A2 Jeeps back in the day or 30+ years ago...LOL. The virtue of having a steel tank is you have a drain plug and I will probably position a magnet in the tank through the top to work as a rust and fragment collector. I thought of having a larger stainless steel or aluminum tank built. Hopefully the new coil will do the trick as well. a lightening strike is a bitch so I hope this is the last component fried.
 
Throw some old nuts and bolts into that tank and give it a good shake. This should loosen the bigger chunks.
 
Tank with rust and varnish, this may be a continual PITA until it is clear?

The pump may have a load of crap in it as well.

Once the aromatics leave the fuel the remains turn to a resin like substance, also any water or humidity settles on the fuel tank innards causing powdery rust, adding fuel simply washes the rust down to the pump pick up.

At this point I would remove the second row seats and open up the top of the tank. Shine a torch in there and see what the tank innards look like.

If you set a siphon going you can hoover the rust out along with any contaminated fuel, due to baffles you will not get all the rubbish out so a revisits may be needed. Check the pump pick up is clean, only then fit your new filter, and put fresh fuel in.

Nowadays this is a rare occurrence as most fuel tanks are made of plastic.

Regards

Dave


Only because you're in a different place and they call it something differnet there:

Torch = FLASHLIGHT.

Don't use a TORCH with an open flame.............

Do you open the bonnet and the boot there too?
 
Latest if interested, I pulled the fuel pump and inspected the inside of the tank. Surprisingly the tank is in excellent shape considering it is 20 years old.I felt around wit a magnet and got little debris. The mess intake screen was still serviceable and not bad as you will see in the images enclosed. The fuel was clear since it has been in there a few days, almost a week. I did an experiment at the fuel pump and with key on there is no fuel pump is in static mode. Engage ignition the fuel pumps. Hope this will satisfy the chart before the horse debate. Now I am sure if you have a Diesel the pump engages when key is turned on with electric fuel pump. This is how my 2010 Dodge Ram 3500 is.
20171221_084615.jpg
20171221_084629.jpg
20171221_084931.jpg
 
Only because you're in a different place and they call it something differnet there:

Torch = FLASHLIGHT.

Don't use a TORCH with an open flame.............

Do you open the bonnet and the boot there too?

:D Yep I hear you. Yes we do have bonnets and boots, but then a sneaker is someone creeping around your house, and not worn on your foot. :flipoff2:

Regards

Dave
 

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