Kenwood owners - downloading topo maps onto in dash GPS

[Jacket]

I need some guidance on adding topo maps to my in-dash Kenwood dnx5180. Searching the 'nets yields inconsistent results and is more about updating street maps than adding additional, different maps.

Here's what I have:

- Kenwood DNX5180 with a set of standard street maps that came with the unit
- no SD card slot
- USB female-end cable that comes with the head unit. I ran this into the glove box
- separate IPod cable that also includes a USB "splice" on it (male end). I assume this is just for Ipod/music related stuff.

What I want to do:
- I've got Garmin Map Source on a computer for downloading maps to my 60CSx handheld. I also have some free topo maps of Colorado and Utah that I downloaded and can see and transfer in Map Source.. I want these as map options on the head unit.

What I've tried:
- Using Map Source, I transferred the Utah topo maps from my computer to a USB flash drive (creates a directory called garmin, and loads a file onto the flash disc). I plugged this into the female end cable on the head unit. The screen recognized the device and updated to "reading", but after several hours and no change or "finish", I assumed it wasn't actually downloading.

I read somewhere that maybe you can't use a memory stick to upload maps, and that you have to do a direct transfer from a PC. So I guess I could get a standard male/male USB cable, and plug the laptop into the head unit, and try a transfer from Map Source?

Somewhere else I read that there's another port on the back of the unit that gives you access to the hard drive on the head unit, and that you can update maps that way? But you have to pull the head unit back out and plug in that way - seems more trouble than it's worth, especially with USB ports already accessible.

For those of you with a Kenwood without an SD card slot, what are you doing to add new maps?

 

[re_guderian]

What I've tried:
- Using Map Source, I transferred the Utah topo maps from my computer to a USB flash drive (creates a directory called garmin, and loads a file onto the flash disc). I plugged this into the female end cable on the head unit. The screen recognized the device and updated to "reading", but after several hours and no change or "finish", I assumed it wasn't actually downloading.

You are correct, the USB thumb drive to the iPod/USB port won't work. I have a DNX 6140 with no SD card slot, and recently was successful in adding topos as outlined in this thread:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/electronic-toys/502504-definitive-24k-topo-kendwood-thread.html

BTW, this capability absolutely ROCKS! Nice, neat, self-contained, always there, not rattling around, can display/download tracks, change level of details displayed, big screen, co-pilot can operate it if needed, etc. etc.

...I read somewhere that maybe you can't use a memory stick to upload maps, and that you have to do a direct transfer from a PC. So I guess I could get a standard male/male USB cable, and plug the laptop into the head unit, and try a transfer from Map Source?

This is exactly what you need to do. Get a mini (not micro) USB male to regular rectangular USB male cable - pretty standard - and plug it into the back of the HU and run to the glove box. As you implied this is different than the USB output on the HU meant to be used for generic MP3's, photos, iPod hookup, etc. In my Kenwood HU manual, this is referred to as the "Traffic" antenna input. It allows direct access to the HD. You can then download/transfer/upload from your laptop with MapSource to the HU.

...Somewhere else I read that there's another port on the back of the unit that gives you access to the hard drive on the head unit, and that you can update maps that way? But you have to pull the head unit back out and plug in that way - seems more trouble than it's worth, especially with USB ports already accessible.

For those of you with a Kenwood without an SD card slot, what are you doing to add new maps?

As above, pull the HU only ONE TIME (really 5 minutes max, and I'm a slooooow mechanic) and plug the USB cable into the traffic port, thread to the glove box and leave it coiled up in there permanently. Then when you want to load maps or retrieve tracks, just plug your laptop into the "other" USB cable in your glove box, turn on the power, and have at it using MapSource. BTW, the maps go in the \garmin folder. You can check the available disk space in Windows Explorer. My 6140 only had 2GB, enough for the entire state of AZ 24K topos. I got the topos from gpsfiledepot (or similar, can't recall exact URL and I'm not at home).

Seriously, you are almost there! You'll love the results.

To access the maps, you go into the detailed maps option and "enable" the topos. You can either disable the Street Navigator or leave them both enabled (they'll overlay). Usually when I'm wanting to look at the topos there is nothing on the Street Navigator anyway worth looking at.

PM me with any questions you have.

 

[re_guderian]

Having said all this ^, you better pull your HU and make sure you have the mini-USB port.

Looking at your install manual, not sure it does, but a quick physical check would be in order.

http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/113/113DNX5180.PDF

 

[Jacket]

Thanks Rob. I've been studying the pictures, and it would seem that Kenwood/Garmin has done away with this port.

Here's the 6140 with the mini port in clear view to the right of center.

And the 6180 no longer seems to have it:

And my 5180 - also no mini-plug:

When I called Garmin today, I got transferred a couple of times, and finally was told that downloading multiple map sets was not supported. Seemed like an odd response - makes me wonder if they got tired of fielding support calls and issues with the GPS and decided to get rid of the extra port to reduce the issues?

 

[re_guderian]

...When I called Garmin today, I got transferred a couple of times, and finally was told that downloading multiple map sets was not supported. Seemed like an odd response - makes me wonder if they got tired of fielding support calls and issues with the GPS and decided to get rid of the extra port to reduce the issues?

I'm pretty sure that's always been the party line. However, I tried this AM to load more than one extra set of maps, and it over-wrote the one that was already there. Not the City Navigator maps, but it overwrote my AZ topo with the UT topo.



Also tried the CD method to load, but didn't get that to work. One more variation to try tonight.

 

[Jacket]

I suspect that's because both files were named gpsmapsupp.img, which is the "supplemental" or "external" map set that gets added. But according to some other threads about NUVI's, the garmin internals can support multiple file names.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]On Nüvi you can have internaly:
gmapprom.img (normaly preinstalled maps)
gmpaprom1.img (used when both EU and US are on the GPS)
gmapsupp.img (maps downloaded to the GPS)
gmapbmap.img (base map)
gmapoem.img (Oem maps?)

On SD card you can only have gmapsupp.img
[/FONT]

No idea if this would work for the Garmin's embedded in the Kenwood units. Might be worth a try, or you can see what options are out there to consolidate image files.

 

[re_guderian]

I suspect that's because both files were named gpsmapsupp.img, which is the "supplemental" or "external" map set that gets added. But according to some other threads about NUVI's, the garmin internals can support multiple file names.


No idea if this would work for the Garmin's embedded in the Kenwood units. Might be worth a try, or you can see what options are out there to consolidate image files.

Well, it won't support additional names like some of the newer units will. I tried gmapsupp1.img and gmapsup1.img and neither one was recognized. For the frequency of which I want to swap maps, I can keep them all named aztopo.img, utahtopo.img on the unit's HDD, then just hook up the laptop when I need to load a new one and copy it to gmapsupp.img. Sounds like some of the newer units will read a gmapsupp2.img, etc. as well as some that will recognize files in a \map directory with normal names, like aztopo.img. Wouldn't it be nice?

Have you made any progress on the uploading of topos? Either via DVD/CD, the setup menu (SRC+reset?), or the existing USB cable? I know that for a firmware update, the file gupdate.gcd seemed to copy itself from the CD into the \garmin folder. I'm not sure if it would take any map files with it or not. I'll try again tonight if I have time.

 

[Jacket]

Not yet. I've been away this week, so there hasn't been much time to experiment. But I had previously tried to install maps via a flash drive which didn't seem to work (the unit indicated that it was reading the external connection, but never updated after 2+ hours).

I ordered a USB male / male cable, so I'll try a direct transfer from the laptop (MapSource) when that cable shows up, and in the mean time I can try the flash drive again with a much smaller file (to reduce the transfer time) and/or including a firmware update and see if anything happens.

 

[re_guderian]

Not sure if you saw this on the Kenwood forum?

KenwoodForums.com • View topic - Another Way To Load Vehicle And Voice files.

I know it's not specifically for the 5180, but gives hope that there's a back door method out there to transfer from the USB thumb drive to the Garmin HDD.

Also, I never knew you could get a Darth Vader voice for your navi...

edit: -> this exact method did NOT work on my DNX6140.

 

[Jacket]

Nice! I hadn't seen that one before. I tried it out on the 5180 and sure enough the Developer info/file manager option is there. It showed options for Disk, USB and DVD, so that's promising. I tried to look at the Disk option and I didn't see any directories like Garmin - wasn't even selectable.

When I get home tonight I'll plug in a flash drive and/or DVD-RW and see if I can recognize and find files to copy over.

 

[re_guderian]

Whoop! Hoping it works! I'm thinking that the root folder IS the \Garmin folder, but I could be wrong...

I also updated the other Kenwood thread on how to get multiple maps into a single gmapsupp.img file.

 

[Jacket]

Yet another fail for the 5180....

My unit works to get to the File Manager menu, and recognizes both the hard disk and the USB thumb drive. But no files or folders are visible in either drive, so nothing to copy or move. I tried a DVD with the map files on it, but this wasn't even recognized by the system.

Frustrated....

 

[re_guderian]

Yet another fail for the 5180....

My unit works to get to the File Manager menu, and recognizes both the hard disk and the USB thumb drive. But no files or folders are visible in either drive, so nothing to copy or move. I tried a DVD with the map files on it, but this wasn't even recognized by the system.

Frustrated....

Argh - so close! The dawning reality may be that for the low price point, Kenwood/Garmin chose to offer a unit with no upgradability and the firmware takes that into account. Might also try the file manager with a video DVD to see if it can see those files? Hate to waste your time, but there "should" be a way around this. Not sure if there is a setting somewhere to enable the file manager?

Is it worthwhile to call Garmin support and ask how to add additional vehicles and/or voices to the 5180, and see what their answer is? Maps should be added the same way. I'm sure they'll give you the standard "maps have to be upgraded via USB purchased from us" or some such (although I don't think any map updates are even offered yet for the 5180), but if you limit the questioning to the vehicles and voices they should have an answer for you.

The other option is to see if Garmin's WebUpdater program works via the existing USB connection. I used this to update some voices on mine. This program uses the "Garmin Mode" instead of the "USB Mass Storage Mode" when connected via the mini USB cable. Just another shot in the dark.

Or, you may have to flea-bay or CL the unit and go up one level to the one with the micro-SD card slot...

 

[Jacket]

I don't think it's any different with the 5180, 6180, 7180 - they all have the same OS and GPS installed. The main difference is the addition of Bluetooth (6180) and the larger screen and missing volume knob (7180).

I think I'm finding ways to blame Kenwood/Garmin at this point, but my guess is that they are disabling these features as soon as they figure out the general public is on to it. The more users customize their product, the more performance issues, lockups and other negative feedback gets spread on the internet.

I think you are right - there has to be a "back door" way to get to the file system in order for tech support folks to troubleshoot the unit, but I think they continue to change it and make it harder for people like me to figure it out.

And I still can't believe it's this black and white, and that I'm stuck with the CN maps that came with the unit. What if I was driving to Costa Rica and wanted maps of Central America on my head unit - is that not supported either? I probably should have bought a cheap head unit and a dedicated GPS.....

 

[Jacket]

I guess this answers my question more definitively:

KenwoodForums.com • View topic - Developer menu access to file structure

The XX80 units have blocked out the Developer Info file systems from being manipulated.

Kenwood must use a different operating system on the 6980. The File Manager gives a choice of "Alternate File System" which the 6960 does not.

There is actually an internal 4gb miniSD card in the 6980. A card reader shows an unreadable partition on most of the card which is where all the good stuff is. There is a readable Garmin folder with 4 files; fm_sub.bin, Gmapsupp.unl grmn0.gma, UnitID.dat. The readable space is less than 100k, the rest is the unreadable partition.

My guess is that they are using Telechips Bootloader for Windows Embedded CE 6.0 with NAND Hidden partitions to prevent hacking the system.

 

[re_guderian]

Wow, that brings the suck. So all the XX80 systems are not upgradeable except for CN maps? I'd be pissed if I dropped a grand on that.

 

[Jacket]

Fortunately I paid far less than a grand, but I may end up returning the one I have and moving closer to that price point. The dnx6980 has a micro-SD slot on the front of the unit, and this seems to be my only option at this point for augmenting the maps. I'd almost be better off with a dnx6960 because the "Developer Info" access would still be functional, but with the limited availability of a model almost 2 years old now, I'd be afraid it would be someone else's reject.

For the extra money to upgrade Kenwood units I could probably have a decent standalone Nuvi that supports everything I need for off road, or half way to an IPad. I just don't want all the extra garbage in my cockpit.

I spent a couple hours yesterday on the phone with support folks from Crutchfield, Garmin and Kenwood, and it truly amazes me how little these people know about the Kenwood GPS units, particularly the GPS aspect of it. It is clear that Kenwood deems the GPS a "Garmin problem", and the Garmin folks are very under-educated on the GPS used in the Kenwood units as compared to a Nuvi or handheld Garmin unit.

 

[Jacket]

Progress

I do believe I finally see a topo map. I bought a dnx6980 with an SD card, and was able to load maps that way. No dice with the dnx5180.

Just had to come up with 200 more bones to buy a unit with SD card support.....

 

[re_guderian]

Whoop! I used mine again last weekend to find a hike-in lake to take the scouts fishing to. So nice to have topo and detailed forest roads at the ready. Takes 15 seconds to switch over when you leave the pavement.

Typos sent from my HTC EVO using the IH8MUD app...

 

[Dunbar]

My Streetpilot 7200 with XM died and I am shopping in dash options like the Kenwoods. I have read about slow response to button clicks and problems updating maps. How do you like this one?

Thanks,
Dunar

I do believe I finally see a topo map.

Just had to come up with 200 more bones to buy a unit with SD card support.....