NV4500 behind GM 5.7 Vortec (3 Viewers)

[Elbert]

Ok...another crazy question... I'll go look through the FAQ and search around as well.

What are concerns with running a GM NV4500 manual 5 speed trans behind my 5.7 Vortec?

Need trans to TC adapter?
What about slave cylinder setup?
What about clutch arm?
exhaust clearance issues? Can you run stock manifolds?
assume regular GM clutch would work?
assume I would use GM bellhousing and GM version of the NV4500. I recall reading that there are numberous configurations on this trans... what to look for?

allready have GM 5.7 , and I think the flywheel is 168 teeth (not sure of the exact tooth count as I type this (is a stock GM flywheel).

So generally speaking I would swap in new clutch, nv4500 trans, and TC adapter...sit engine where I wanted it... and fab up crossmember and engine mounts to match. Get new driveshafts.

Just under consideration....wondering about the "fine print".

 

[lehiguy]

The fine print is all about the bell housing. The Chevy units up to and including 1995 had an external slave that hung low on the passenger side right where your front driveline wants to be. Later versions had an internal slave. According to Advance Adapters, trying to make that work is next to impossible. So you are left with two options; extensive modifications on the original bell housing (welding the original opening closed, making a new ball stud and opening for the release arm on the driver's side) or buying an Advance Adapters unit. I went with the heavily modified Chevy route, it has been working fine for a few years now, but it really was extensive and time consuming not to mention the most red-neck mod I have ever done.

One more thing worth mentioning, I went with a later Chevy version of the NV4500. It has a 5.6:1 first gear ratio, not the 7:1 (or whatever it was) of the Chevy versions used up through 1994 inclusive. I am SOOOO glad I did that. As it is, I rarely use first and second is wound out by the time I get through an intersection. I cannot imagine wanting lower ratios.

 

[cullmancruiser]

Hey Elbert,
If you decide to go the NV4500 route, Dan at Rocket City Offroad gave me a heck of a deal on my NV4500 to LC transfer case adapter (under $500). I'm a couple weeks in to my 4BT conversion now so that saved me some much needed money. If you decide you don't need your Contour fans any more let me know, they should do a fine job cooling a 4BT.

 

[cullmancruiser]

I also should mention that I might can help you out with any welding or machine work because that's what I do for a living. We also can make any kind of custom hydraulic hoses, brake lines, air conditioning, and power steering hoses you might need. It's made my life easier on my 4BT conversion working at a place I can do all that.

 

[Elbert]

I also should mention that I might can help you out with any welding or machine work because that's what I do for a living. We also can make any kind of custom hydraulic hoses, brake lines, air conditioning, and power steering hoses you might need. It's made my life easier on my 4BT conversion working at a place I can do all that.

You can make custom A/C hoses....ok...I'm in for that. I've got to make some decisions on what I want to do... May have to do some minor stuff now and major stuff later.

I would like to get up with you on the A/C hoses.

Need to talk with my friend (Les) and see what he thinks on some of my ideas and what it will take to make it happen.

FYI... while I've not seen one in person ...I saw a video of a Lincoln Mark VIII fan in operation...unbelievable. Yeah I may be making some deals or trades on some of my stuff as I decide where to go.

 

[Elbert]

Hey Elbert,
If you decide to go the NV4500 route, Dan at Rocket City Offroad gave me a heck of a deal on my NV4500 to LC transfer case adapter (under $500). I'm a couple weeks in to my 4BT conversion now so that saved me some much needed money. If you decide you don't need your Contour fans any more let me know, they should do a fine job cooling a 4BT.

I've done a little reading on this... Looks like I want a GM NV45000 4wd style.... and maybe the AA adapters & bellhousing.. wondering about the clutch... I would like to have a GM drive train in part (GM engine, clutch & trans).

 

[Kurtis]

Just out of curiosity what is it that you like more out of the nv4500? If its for strength you might want to consider going with gm stuff all the way back. You could get an np205 and 14 bolt semi float for less than the price of an adapter. My friend just paid 350 for both. The np205 is without a doubt much stronger than any split case. Then you still have your old axle and t case you can sell and probably pay for the whole thing. There is a lot more available for the gm axles as well.

 

[lehiguy]

Just out of curiosity what is it that you like more out of the nv4500? If its for strength you might want to consider going with gm stuff all the way back. You could get an np205 and 14 bolt semi float for less that the price of an adapter. My friend just paid 350 for both. The np205 is without a doubt much stronger than any split case. Then you still have your old axle and t case you can sell and probably pay for the whole thing. There is a lot more available for the gm axles as well.

That is an excellent point and it is for that reason that I did just what Kurtis is suggesting. I got an NP241 for free after some parts swapping, (out of a '92 Dodge 1/2 ton, came with fixed yoke output) and a semi-floater 14-bolt for almost nothing. That let me keep my six-lug wheels while still being beefier than the Cruiser axle. I scored an E-locker for $400. Disk brakes are an easy addition too. I like being able to stop.

 

[lehiguy]

I've done a little reading on this... Looks like I want a GM NV45000 4wd style.... and maybe the AA adapters & bellhousing.. wondering about the clutch... I would like to have a GM drive train in part (GM engine, clutch & trans).

The clutch is all GM. Use a diaphram type pressure plate, they require a shorter throw to disengage and that works well with the Toyota master and slave cylinder dynamics.

 

[Elbert]

thanks for the feedback....still looking for pics or anything on specifics regarding slave cylinder, can you run stock GM exhaust manifolds, specific clutch arm needed? All the good fine print kind of stuff.

dont' know for sure I'm going down this path...but I clearly want to understand what's invovled. I do plan on moving my engine back towards the firewall to gain some room at the radiator. If I decide to swap stuff around this would be the perfect time to do it.

 

[lehiguy]

thanks for the feedback....still looking for pics or anything on specifics regarding slave cylinder, can you run stock GM exhaust manifolds, specific clutch arm needed? All the good fine print kind of stuff.

dont' know for sure I'm going down this path...but I clearly want to understand what's invovled. I do plan on moving my engine back towards the firewall to gain some room at the radiator. If I decide to swap stuff around this would be the perfect time to do it.

AA sells all this stuff, you use your stock master and slave cylinder by routing the hard line down the driver's side instead of the passenger side. The release arm is old-school Chevy, so is the pivot ball on which it rides. A bracket can be purchased (again, AA) or fabricated for your slave cylinder. I run the short, block-hugger headers and I made my own exhaust system to clear all the important stuff, but any shop could do that for you. I made the exhaust in such a way that it comes apart in sections, makes life easier when you have to do a clutch or pull the motor. Engine placement on mine is fairly close to the firewall, but with enough room for plug wires and the like to pass behind the valve covers without issue. The NV4500's shift tower is towards the rear of the case and that allows you to bolt it directly to the motor and not have the engine smashed into the firewall. I had to remove the heat deflector that directed air onto my feet to clear my shifter, but I found that the heat function actually works better without that piece. I used rivets, and plate aluminum to "relocate" the shifter hole in the tunnel cover. I used well nuts for the shifter boot. It looks more or less stock. I did have to cut and weld the shifter stub on the NV box for the proper angle as it wanted to hit the dash in stock form.

 

[Elbert]

OK... I'm considering going the NV4500 route. I've got a couple of questions for those who are running a NV4500 with SBC I"m not comitted just yet. If you have any word of caution please post up. I'll lay out my current configuration and post a couple of additional questions Don't take what I post to be the cat's @$$ as I'm no expert.

I've not said I'm 100% on making this change so please understand that.

Advance adapters relates to me that they advise to use their bellhousing because they feel the GM clutch slave is prone to failure, you have to remove the trans & bellshousing to swap stock interal GM slave and teh LC clutch master cylinder is not up to the task of pushing the GM slave.

AA reccomends 1996 and newer GM 4*4 version of the NV4500.

Here is what I have, 1986 FJ60 with:
1999 GM 5.7 Vortec SBC
Stock 168 Tooth GM Flywheel
Centerforce 11 inch Clutch & matching pressure plate
Toyota 5 speed manual transmission
Rebuilt stock split transfer case
GM Ram's horn exhaust manifolds
Soon to have 4.88 gears, lockers front and back, dual transfer case shifter.
Stock toyota type clutch slave cylinder with adjustable rod.
(I think that' about all that would have any bearing on this question).

The swap I'm referring to would be to intall 1996 or newer GM 4*4 NV4500, appropriate slave, clutch, and pressure plate, along with AA bellhousing for NV4500, and AA transfer case adapter. and potentially move engine back closer to the firewall, along with having either two new driveshafts made or current ones modified, and also installing new crossmeber for trans mount unless stock could be modified.

So my question is for those who are running a NV4500 with SBC

(1) Do you have any issues with the clutch slave cylinder and what clutch & pressure plate combination are you running?

(2) How close to the firewall do you have your engine sitting (rough estimate is good)..just enough to clear dist?

(3) Are you running a body lift, if so please provide details.

(4) is the AA adatper that mates the NV4500 with the Toyota split transfer case a install and forget job?

(5) do you have the slave on the drivers side or the passenger side (stock of FJ60 is on teh drivers side)..just wondering.

(6) I've been reading through the insttructions associated with the bellhousing, and trasnfer case adatper..etc..it talks about additional modifications..one of which is to cut the output shaft of the trans at the rear...and maybe others... for those who have done that and whatever else is required, please comment.

Please post up pics of your swap as it relates to the trans setup..etc. I know this has been talked about a lot, but I'm going to understand everything there is...before I jump, so have some patience. I've never had any issues with the starter, I don't recall if it has shims or not, but if it does I just used whatever came off the engine when I got it. I don't want to change the transfer case or change the rear differential (axle assembly). If something grenades then that might be soemthing to do in the future.

 

[Elbert]

AA sells all this stuff, you use your stock master and slave cylinder by routing the hard line down the driver's side instead of the passenger side. The release arm is old-school Chevy, so is the pivot ball on which it rides. A bracket can be purchased (again, AA) or fabricated for your slave cylinder. I run the short, block-hugger headers and I made my own exhaust system to clear all the important stuff, but any shop could do that for you. I made the exhaust in such a way that it comes apart in sections, makes life easier when you have to do a clutch or pull the motor. Engine placement on mine is fairly close to the firewall, but with enough room for plug wires and the like to pass behind the valve covers without issue. The NV4500's shift tower is towards the rear of the case and that allows you to bolt it directly to the motor and not have the engine smashed into the firewall. I had to remove the heat deflector that directed air onto my feet to clear my shifter, but I found that the heat function actually works better without that piece. I used rivets, and plate aluminum to "relocate" the shifter hole in the tunnel cover. I used well nuts for the shifter boot. It looks more or less stock. I did have to cut and weld the shifter stub on the NV box for the proper angle as it wanted to hit the dash in stock form.

How about posting up some pics of your setup? (1) would like to see where the gearshift lever is located on the floor of the cab, did you have to modify? (2) Would like to see a picture showing the distance between your dist and your firewall to give me some idea how far your engine sits as it relates to the firewall. (3) also would like to see a picture showing transfer case shifter location, any modification required there?

Anyone else care to share picutures of their NV4500 setup with SBC 5.7 V-8? Post up

 

[lehiguy]

I'll try to remember to post some pics. We are alternating beautiful sunny days with horrid snowy ones, so sometimes its difficult to go outside and take pics. I reccomend using the AA bellhousing. The internal release hardware that Chevy used is a real gamble and impossible to service without removing the trans and the external release stuff used with the NV4500 is downright embarasing its so cheap. The AA bellhousings use the old Chevy hardware, (bomb-proof) and the Toyota slave which works just fine. AA will gladly sell you a clutch, but it is not a proprietary piece. It too is old-school Chevy diaphram type, not the three-finger type. If you were to talk to a clutch rebuild shop they could set you up for less dinero.

 

[rover67]

The clutch that AA shipped me for my marks kit was a clutch out of a late 60's suburban. it has a 10 spline 1 1/8" center and is 11"diameter, and supposedly is the shorter engagement pressure plate. Is that the kind of clutch that you are saying one would need lehiguy?

 

[lehiguy]

The clutch that AA shipped me for my marks kit was a clutch out of a late 60's suburban. it has a 10 spline 1 1/8" center and is 11"diameter, and supposedly is the shorter engagement pressure plate. Is that the kind of clutch that you are saying one would need lehiguy?

Is it a diaphragm type? If so, then yes. The pressure plates that AA sells for Cruiser applications are not proprietary, they are a standard Chevy part from the past but I'm uncertain of the specific applications.

 

[rover67]

It is a diaphragm type clutch..

I thought that it was something fancy since it had to be short throw for the toyota master/slave.

The AA clutch I got was $199, I have found it online using the LUK(the brand it is) part numberfor like $130.

 

[lehiguy]

It is a diaphragm type clutch..

I thought that it was something fancy since it had to be short throw for the toyota master/slave.

The AA clutch I got was $199, I have found it online using the LUK(the brand it is) part numberfor like $130.

That sounds about right.

 

[FL cruiser]

I run a 95 up GM truck bell housing with internal slave. Using a Wilwood 7/8 master for a slave cyl. same dia as Toyota slave, but longer stroke for the extra fluid needed to move the internal slave. Using a Stock GM 12" clutch, and pedal feel is as light as a Corolla. So far 10 yrs of trouble free service.

Make sure the clutch you get is 95 or newer GM that has shorter throw/more movement.

 

[Elbert]

I run a 95 up GM truck bell housing with internal slave. Using a Wilwood 7/8 master for a slave cyl. same dia as Toyota slave, but longer stroke for the extra fluid needed to move the internal slave. Using a Stock GM 12" clutch, and pedal feel is as light as a Corolla. So far 10 yrs of trouble free service.

Make sure the clutch you get is 95 or newer GM that has shorter throw/more movement.

got any pictures to show gear shift layout and engine position relative to the firewall...see my request a few posts above.