concrete counter top

tltaylor22 · 08-10-09, 10:15 PM

I'm going to start remodeling the kitchen in September. the wife is picking out new tile, we already bought the new cabinets, but I need to figure out the counter. We've been looking at granite, but haven't realy liked anything we have found and they sure are proud of thier stuff $$$$. So I've been toying with the idea of doing my own concrete counters. I used to work as a swimming pool plasterer and have done a bunch of concrete work (color and stamp stuff). Has anyone done thier own counters before? I'm looking for material recomendations and technique.

KLF · 08-10-09, 11:13 PM

I'm also gonna be making one this Fall, probably in a month or so. I'm gonna try it on the 3'x4' island in my kitchen, just a simple rectang with no inserts. What the heck, if it doesn't work out it's not a huge investment, I'll just put the crappy post-form one back on.

Get yourself a copy of the book "Concrete Countertops Made Simple" by a guy named Fu-Tung Cheng. Very easy to read, lots of photos and tips, it also comes with a DVD of videos. There's some great websites out there, do some reading.

tltaylor22 · 08-11-09, 08:07 PM

I've looked at a lot of Fu-tung's stuff, videos and books. Like you I figure I'll just jump in and do it. I just need to find a local supplier of counter top mix. Quickcrete here in Salt Lake City makes it, but won't sell me any less than 16 pallets full! They said to order it through Lowes but I want to play around with a couple bags first and the Lowes guys weren't too keen on bringing in a few to experiment.

KLF · 08-12-09, 11:19 AM

Fu-Tung's book talks about what mixes to use. He recommends using the 5000 psi Sacrete stuff you can get in 80-lb sacks at Lowes, but says you can get an admixture from him that includes the fibers, a plasticizer, some other stuff. I was in Lowes yesterday starting to scope out materials, they sell the Sacrete on the shelf, but not the melamine board he recommends for the molds. Haven't found that yet, but there's a few local yards here that can probably get it.

A buddy here has a nice concrete vibrator, I still need to find a mixer.

fsusteve · 08-12-09, 12:35 PM

a friend is doing one right now, they are a lot of work to make right and take forever to cure, just keep that in mind.

tltaylor22 · 08-13-09, 08:31 PM

Lowes can also order in the Quickcrete Countertop blend. It is supposed to have everything in it already and comes in Grey or White. $12/50lb bag. I talked to another supplier that sells some 10klb stuff you can pour 1/2" thick, but it's like $60 per bag. I don't think I would trust 1/2" thick stuff.

I'm thinking pour them in the garage and let them cure. My wife could have some really nice laquered particle board counters for a month. Then grab a few large friends to bring the cement ones in. Now if I just had large friends.....

Cuerno Largo · 08-14-09, 01:47 PM

Let me preface this with a disclaimer that I have no firsthand knowledge of the process so take this with a grain of salt.

Now.... my nurse and her husband remodeled her kitchen recently and put in concrete countertops that appear very nice in the pictures she showed me. These were done by a friend of theirs that puts these in as part of the business he works for. He went to training for this.

From the stories she told, it was hell. He had to rebuild several times because of problems with the forms. Material was not that cheap since it was not just regular concrete, but some form of concrete special for this process. Areas that were not sanded perfectly are now chipping slightly. Apparently hairline cracks will form no matter what. Overall she is happy with the appearance, but is thinking she will have to redo these in the future, or use another material.

I don't know if her experiences are outside of normal, if she has unrealistic expectations from the process, or if the guy installing is a dipshit. Just a story for FYI.

haystax · 08-14-09, 04:43 PM

Go to finehomebuilding.com and try searching the "Breaktime" forum or post a question asking for help finding the older threads on concrete coutnertops. A guy over there has some great writeups and tips.

The forum software over there is absolutely terrible but I think it is well worth the effort because there are some very good posts and post(ers) and there was an article in an issue of the fine homebuilding magazine a few years back that may be available in .pdf form.

Good luck!

jellyroll · 08-14-09, 07:24 PM

Fu-Tung, if thats the guy from the Bay area I've heard good stuff about him.

JLC-Online Forums - Powered by vBulletin

Snoop around in here. It's frequented by a bunch of contractor kooks who do all that kind of stuff for a livin'.

tltaylor22 · 08-14-09, 09:01 PM

Thanks for all the posts guys. Here's the link the the Quickcrete countertop mix. I've got around 50sq.ft. so 11+bags should do it. I'll probably order in a few next week and play with it.

http://www.quikrete.com/ProductLines...rtopMixPro.asp

The JLC link had a bunch of good information as well. Most of the guys there were using a standard bag mix, which doesn't make sense from everything else I've read. The $60/bag stuff I looked at was 10k psi and could be poured 1/2" thick and bent while in the mold without cracking.

Cuerno, I apreciate the experience. I've heard stories going both ways on Cement counters. My wife is starting to waffle on the idea as well. The problem is she doesn't want granite, or at least the granite that we could afford. She hates the corian style stuff as well. I'm not putting formica in my new kitchen. I haven't brought up solid wood counters yet.

jellyroll · 08-15-09, 09:07 PM

Ever think about Silestone? It's a quartzite product, antibacterial, and if I remember right they had a plethora of color selections. We thought about using it in our home in Hawaii but at the time it was fairly new and couldn't find a fabricator I felt comfortable with.

haystax · 08-16-09, 05:11 AM

I used Silestone for our new house, very happy with the stuff so far.

fsusteve · 08-16-09, 05:56 AM

we used silestone too, the prices have dropped on all the countertop products quite a bit, you have to reprice them constantly. My friend is using some kind of mosaic in his concrete counter top to hide imperfections which kinda defeats the reason to do them, you might as well do tile at that point. But it is cheap to do, I do know you have to pour them in place or you are just asking for cracks.

tltaylor22 · 08-16-09, 09:10 AM

[QUOTE=jellyroll;4697742]Ever think about Silestone? [/QUOTE
The granite places we checked out all do silestone as well. I liked it alot. It was actually equal to or more cost wise compared to granite. Granite seems to be running between $40 and $80 per sq.ft. Silestone was running $60. Those are installed prices. I still have a connection to get a corian style material for super cheap. The wife just isn't thrilled with the idea. I guess if it is cheap enough I could replace it when wages salaries get unfrozen.

I'm really trying to keep the whole remodel under $8k. I know, crazy. I bought all new Maple cabinets for $.20 on the dollar, so around $1300. I'm laying radiant heat while I've got the floor ripped out and will tie it into the rest of the radiant in the house. The only new appliance I will purchase will be a new stove top/Oven combo. The tile and the counter are my major expenses. I just plan on pulling the motor home up to the front door for a month while I plug away at everything.

apeterson · 08-20-09, 10:35 AM

been thinking about this myself... post up pics when you are done

rochmpr · 08-24-09, 01:56 PM

I had some done in my kitchen a few years ago. The company used a color integral mix. The mix design was about 8000 psi. They also used a SS wire mesh for reinforcement.

To date, I have had no problems with the countertops.

djs100 · 08-30-09, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tltaylor22

I'm going to start remodeling the kitchen in September. the wife is picking out new tile, we already bought the new cabinets, but I need to figure out the counter. We've been looking at granite, but haven't realy liked anything we have found and they sure are proud of thier stuff $$$$. So I've been toying with the idea of doing my own concrete counters. I used to work as a swimming pool plasterer and have done a bunch of concrete work (color and stamp stuff). Has anyone done thier own counters before? I'm looking for material recomendations and technique.

I've done a dozen or so kitchens and many more vanities. You can either pour in place or pre-cast (concreteexchange.com). Either way, I would practice on something smaller before doing a kitchen. Can't tell you how many concrete coffee tables I've made over the years as practice!

Creeker · 08-30-09, 09:09 AM

I cast a 3 foot square +/= hearth using regular portland cement, clean sand, and black stone aggregate, plus iron oxide additive for color and a plasticizer. It's about 3" thick and weighs maybe 100 lbs! Having done that project, I agree that the GFRC (glass fiber reinforced concrete) would be the best route for a countertop so that you can keep it relatively thin and light but still strong.

I did find that grinding the concrete after it cured brought out the glitter of the sand and the color of the aggregate. Before grinding it looks pretty dead. The grinding can be done with an angle grinder and a diamond cup stone grinder. It's messy. They make special concrete surface grinders that might be worth the investment.

I learned a lot from this site: Concrete Countertop Forums - The Social Network for Professional Concrete Artisans.

Good luck!

bogus one · 09-05-09, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rochmpr

I had some done in my kitchen a few years ago. The company used a color integral mix. The mix design was about 8000 psi. They also used a SS wire mesh for reinforcement.

To date, I have had no problems with the countertops.

I did ours about 6 years ago. Used quikcrete 5k mix with a color hardener. Wife then "aged with some acrylics to match the backsplash stone.

USDA/FDA approved laquer sealer and all is good.

Make sure your substrate is beefy enough

fsusteve · 09-05-09, 01:34 PM

I talked to my bud who is doing his, he's pouring his in a form in the garage so he can grind them outside once they cure, I'll get pics when he does them.

KLF · 09-05-09, 05:37 PM

I'm curious how thick most of these are being cast? The Fu-Tung book says 2-1/2 to 3" is good, but that seems kinda thick to me. I was gonna go with 2", but don't want any cracks.

bogus one · 09-07-09, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLF

I'm curious how thick most of these are being cast? The Fu-Tung book says 2-1/2 to 3" is good, but that seems kinda thick to me. I was gonna go with 2", but don't want any cracks.

Mine's about 1 1/4".

Trust me, it's all about the substrate

CarmMontana · 09-13-09, 07:45 PM

I agree about the substrate. I used some 1/2 concrete board and then metal mesh to make sure all was good.
One thing to think about is how you are going to polish it. I poured in place and had to polish there, bad idea. It turned out great but i got water everywhere, I even had the grinder with the vacuum attachment but it didn't help. Here is a pic of the finished product before polishing and one of the mold.

My overall pour was about 2" thick in middle and 3" at edges.

KLF · 09-14-09, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarmMontana

I poured in place and had to polish there, bad idea.

So, are you saying you would be better off doing the Fu-Tung method, building an inverted mold? This makes more sense to me, but I can't figure out how I'd get a 10' long countertop flipped, moved, and installed, especially with a huge sink hole in the middle of it.

tltaylor22 · 09-14-09, 05:15 PM

Sorry I haven't posted on my thread for a while. I won't be pouring for a few weeks yet. I will most likely pour inverted in the garage. After watching a few Youtube vid's last night my wife wont let me pour in her new kitchen with her new floors. Great info guys, keep it coming.

KLF · 09-14-09, 06:06 PM

PLEASE take pics and post progress. Good luck!

PRAYN4U · 10-19-09, 08:39 PM

I have a kitchen/bath remodeling business and I have done several concrete countertops. If you are going for a more "rustic" look- a poured in place counter is much easier, however if you are looking for something "polished"-a reverse mold is the better way to go. When you build a reverse mold your options are only limited to your imagination. I'll post a few that we have done.

tltaylor22 · 10-21-09, 08:56 PM

Prayn4u-I'd love to see some of your work. My kistchen is going a little slower than planned. We ran into some rotted floor boards and the radiant heat took longer to install than anticipated. I'm still a ways off on the counters, but need to start soon in order for them to cure. If I do a reverse mold, how long do I cure the counters before starting to polish them?

PRAYN4U · 10-23-09, 10:08 PM

I'm sorry i have been away , I'll get those pictures up. Depending on the mix used you can begin grinding in as little as four days. I would suggest going with a mix like Chengs for your countertop as you can follow directions and create something great with little to no guesswork.
Cheng Concrete Countertops - Design Gallery, Training, DIY Products, Contractors

djs100 · 10-25-09, 05:17 PM

If you are going to grind down your counters to show some of the aggregate, you should wait until day four. I usually will go up to 600 grit on day four and then wait until day 10 to do any polishing. The concrete won't be hard enough to polish if you do it too early.