HELP registering my new '75

jkcm · 10-19-09, 08:22 PM

Forgive the newbie-ness of this question. After ten years of looking at 'em, I finally took a dive and bought a '75 FJ40. I live in DC, however, and I am having a tough time figuring out how to register it (it was previously registered "historic" in Maryland).

I already failed DC emissions and I have been told it will NEVER pass--two owners ago had a chevy small block v8 installed. I may be able to use my business address in MD, but I'm unsure of how to dupe the MVA on that one without actually titling it in the companies name.

Any advice on this is much appreciated.

-John (newest LC owner on the block--see below)

45Kevin · 10-19-09, 08:29 PM

Nice looking truck.

Too bad you couldn't average the emissions with that Prius in the background. It would pass for sure.

Devilmans Hand · 10-19-09, 09:52 PM

dunno how it works in DC, but could you register it as "historic" in DC? Good luck

H2o · 10-20-09, 06:51 AM

I know everything there is to know about passing trucks in DC. I even know who to talk to... sad but true.

First off, they don't look under the hood. So you will need to find out the issue with switching an engine. I guess they are comparing your tail pipe emmisions with what is supposed to come out with the 2f engine. Can't be that different unless your engine is really dirty/bad. Maybe sticking a cheap CAT on it for inspection will do the trick. For A 75, i don't think they put you on the dynamo...

Anyway, the vehicle is sufficiently old that you might be able to get a waiver or work with the head inspector to get it through... ie. difficulty getting original engine and had to be replaced with what you had on hand???

DC does have a historic plate program. Its advantage was that you did not have to pass safety inspection. I don't know if you had to pass emissions. HOWEVER, as of the end of this year, DC will ONLY have an emissions inspections, similar to Maryland. When you buy the vehicle, I guess you will need to get it inspected the first time but after that, it is your responsibility to make sure it is safe.

Lastly, before you buy a vehicle as a resident in DC, you can actually take it to get inspected. How you are supposed to know about this I have NO idea. But you can. Idea is that you can make sure that your car will pass and get an acceptance sticker before putting the money down.

Why did they say it would NEVER pass? Who said that?

John Smith · 10-20-09, 08:18 AM

If they don't pop the hood I can easily get you to pass any tail pipe test. Make sure the engine has fresh oil along with a new air filter and is tuned properly. If your timing is way off you will fail. Run the tank down to about an 1/8 and pour in two gallons of denatured alcohol just before you have it tested. It will pass with great numbers. After you pass the test immediately fill the tank with gas or you will most probably not be able to start the truck again as the alcohol will evaporate from the carb if the truck sits.

If your ignition system has issues or the engine is burning oil or is not tuned properly all bets are off. If the engine is tight and tuned properly you will pass.

jkcm · 10-20-09, 12:24 PM

Thanks for all the advice. DC DOES have a historic tag program, but they have interesting requirements. Including: "in order to get historic tags you need to have a single emissions inspection. After a successful completion of the initial inspection, the vehicle does not need to be inspected again" and "If you spent over $855, DMV will waive your vehicle inspection as long as you spent $855 on getting your emissions repaired and nothing else. The repairs must also have been done by an emissions certified mechanic. Original receipt for repairs must be provided in order to receive a waiver." If I was close with a mechanic that last one brings up an interesting loophole, right?

To John Smith: will your idea still work if this is a fuel injection (NO CARB) system?

To H2o: You are right that they did not look under the hood. So, are you saying that I can tell them they should be looking to do the numbers for a V8 (the new engine) instead of the old V-6 2F? The guy who said it'd NEVER pass is a mechanic named Johnny at the Kenwood Sunoco on River Rd in Bethesda. He seemed knowledgeable and was telling me all about his '57 Chevy Hot Rod (that also would never pass an emmisions test). Do you know another good mechanic in the area?

H2o · 10-20-09, 01:18 PM

Ok, lets backtrack. You need to give us EXACT information of when you went through DC inspection and what you failed for. They should tell you why you failed and what you need to fix. Did you go through the whole inspection process or did they cut it short after emissions???

If you inspected after Oct 1, 2009, it should be emissions only since after that date, they will no longer be doing safety inspection

Mr. Smith's points are good. I would start by making sure that your engine is running as cleanly as possible (everything properly adjusted). If you are running too rich/lean, burning oil, etc... you will have to fix that. I think you have 1 or two more tries before they charge you for a re-inspection.

jkcm · 10-20-09, 03:50 PM

What follows are the exact test results from the test done Oct 16. You are corrrect, they did NOT do any safety inspection.

SAFETY RESULT: N/A
BRAKE TEST RESULT: N/A
IDLE RESULT: Fail
IM240 RESULT: N/A
OBD RESULT: N/A
CATALYST RESULT: N/A
GAS CAP TEST RESULT: N/A
OVERALL RESULT: Fail

EMISSIONS RESULT: Fail
•TEST Reading (Units) Limit
•HC: 822 (PPM) 600
•CO: 8.67 (%) 6.50
•CO2: 8.71 (%)

I agree with you all that I should just get it running as clean as I can and try again. ANy suggestions on area mechanics that would be good for this would be appreciated.

Thanks for all your ideas (keep 'em coming).

-Rookie John

John Smith · 10-20-09, 05:20 PM

Somehow I missed the part about a fuel injected V8 under the hood. The denatured alcohol trick will work for a fuel injected motor also, but if you have a fuel injected motor that is running properly it should not need much help to begin with. Is this a TBI motor, Ramjet, Vortec, or ?

You are failing for unburned hydrocarbons which should be easy to clean up since your numbers are not off by much. The mechanic who told you that you would never pass a tail pipe sniff is not trying very hard.

tennesseejed · 10-20-09, 06:36 PM

If I were you I would just register it at the business address in MD and get Historic Tags. They have no way of knowing the address is a business or not and further more I dont think they care. I have my 80 registered in Worcester County because it is an emission exempt county. Do you live in DC? I know if you dont have DC tags sometimes parking overnight is a problem down there.

jkcm · 10-20-09, 07:32 PM

Its a Ramjet 350 efi installed in 2003....I also had the feeling that the mechanic in question just didn't really care to work on the truck. I think i have someone who will give it a try--and although most of you work on your own rigs, let me know if you know a semi-local mechanic who "likes" working on the FJs. Thanks.

jkcm · 10-20-09, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennesseejed

If I were you I would just register it at the business address in MD and get Historic Tags. They have no way of knowing the address is a business or not and further more I dont think they care. I have my 80 registered in Worcester County because it is an emission exempt county. Do you live in DC? I know if you dont have DC tags sometimes parking overnight is a problem down there.

Yeah, TJ, I am strongly considering the MD registration. I am SURE MD doesn't care since they will be grabbing more $. I do live in NW DC, just 200 yards from MD and I have gotten Parking warnings and tickets for parking my work (MD registered) cars on the street. I have a garage and a driveway, however, which will be the primary location for the truck.

Jakes40 · 10-20-09, 08:18 PM

give it a tune up plugs, wires, oil, all the filters and check the timing and the plugs you mat have a computer timing problem.

or

I'll take it off your hands

nice cruiser
good luck
chris

H2o · 10-21-09, 08:51 AM

I agree with Jake, Get it running right. You will get better fuel economy, a better running truck, and we will all breath better

I think the MD mechanic was full of it. He did not know anything about DC inspection except from what he heard... and then he was probably thinking of the safety inspection which does not exist anymore (you are soooo lucky since your bumper height would have failed you.)

You should be able to pass it hands down. Look through the CLCC threads since there was thread recently about a mechanic in Mount Pleasant. Also look at CarTalk website. they have recommendations. Make sure you get a mechanic that has experience with modified vehicles.

I also would not bother tagging it in another state; it will be a headache and it might be difficult to do with your insurance company. Being able to park it in the street for $20 per year if you need to will come in handy.

jkcm · 10-21-09, 01:17 PM

I could not find the thread with a Mt. Pleasant mechanic. I got it in a reliable shop now and will know more tomorrow.

As you can tell, I am no Tom or Ray Magliozzi, and even if I knew how to work on this thing I have 3 boys (ages 3, 2 & 1) at home, so a good mechanic is crucial for me. I'll give the update on this thread later.

To Jakes40, I appreciate the offer, but I'm gonna stick it out.

John Smith · 10-21-09, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkcm

Its a Ramjet 350 efi installed in 2003....I also had the feeling that the mechanic in question just didn't really care to work on the truck. I think i have someone who will give it a try--and although most of you work on your own rigs, let me know if you know a semi-local mechanic who "likes" working on the FJs. Thanks.

There is not a whole lot to tune on a Ramjet and you are pretty close to passing. You are running premium fuel in this engine, correct? Because it is required by the computer programming and won't run right if you feed it regular. If you are running regular gas this could be the cause of your failure. If the engine is running well and you have fresh oil in the thing I would try the denatured alcohol trick before spending $80 plus an hour on a mechanic. Unless, said mechanic has a sniffer machine and is able to dial in the engine to produce the HC and CO results you need to pass.

How do you like the Ramjet and what kind of mileage do you see on the hwy with it?

EDIT, I see you already got it to a mechanic. Please let us know how it goes.

jkcm · 10-22-09, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2o

I know everything there is to know about passing trucks in DC. I even know who to talk to... sad but true.

H2o: you said you know who to speak with in DC and you also mentioned something about the "head inspector." Is that someone I can actually speak with? Could they allow for the engine change to the V8 and do the emissions #'s for that instead of the V6 they are looking for? Do you have his cell phone?

John Smith · 10-22-09, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkcm

H2o: you said you know who to speak with in DC and you also mentioned something about the "head inspector." Is that someone I can actually speak with? Could they allow for the engine change to the V8 and do the emissions #'s for that instead of the V6 they are looking for? Do you have his cell phone?

I will tell Sebastien to send you a PM with his info. He does not login to Mud everyday. I personally would not tell the inspection people anything, especially about your particular engine. The Ramjet is sold as a non emissions compliant engine. They will probably fail you on that alone. You are very close to passing based on your test numbers. If your mechanic can't get the engine dialed in enough to meet the HC and CO numbers I would either slap a catalytic converter on it or do the alcohol trick and be done with it. Once the DC DMV finds out you have that engine if they know anything you won't be getting it registered in DC.

jkcm · 10-22-09, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Smith

slap a catalytic converter on it

What will a converter do to performance? How much should something like that cost?

H2o · 10-22-09, 02:35 PM

John is dead on. I thought you were having big problems. Trust me, compared to what I went through, you are getting a free ride. I would either do the alcohol trick, or try to tune it a little better.

You might end up spending ALOT of money with a mechanic unless he is a good one who has lots of experience. You are dealing with an 'antique' vehicle with a modified system.

I don't think DC really cares about the engine you have in there. It just needs to be equal or better to the emissions that year fj40 was putting out. But don't mention it to them just in case. I think emissions started in 1971 so 4 years later, there were few changes (nothing compared to today's spaghetti).

Let us know how you make out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Smith

I will tell Sebastien to send you a PM with his info. He does not login to Mud everyday. I personally would not tell the inspection people anything, especially about your particular engine. The Ramjet is sold as a non emissions compliant engine. They will probably fail you on that alone. You are very close to passing based on your test numbers. If your mechanic can't get the engine dialed in enough to meet the HC and CO numbers I would either slap a catalytic converter on it or do the alcohol trick and be done with it. Once the DC DMV finds out you have that engine if they know anything you won't be getting it registered in DC.

John Smith · 10-22-09, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkcm

What will a converter do to performance? How much should something like that cost?

I don't think you would notice much of a performance drop at all with that much engine. I would like to think a shop could install a converter for under $200 out the door but I have no idea.

colangut · 10-22-09, 06:18 PM

Take it out to Hitech 4x4 in Chantilly, they will get it squared away. Sounds like it might be running in "limp home mode". Needs to get hooked up to a 4 gas machine and a scanner and checked out.

WICKED COOL TRUCK!

Welcome to the Cult of the Cruiser.

-Stumbaugh

jkcm · 10-23-09, 04:56 AM

I am sitting in the line @ emissions now...stay tuned.

jkcm · 10-23-09, 05:55 AM

bad to worse...failed again.
HC went from 822 to 1370 ppm.
CO from 8.67 to 9.22%.
CO2 dropped from 8.71 to 8.02%.

they did use the other tailpipe this time. I did not try the alcohol trick. so now I am fairly sure I will be registering ths thing in MD.

One thing I am curious about is what should my mpg usually range from? I did a rough calculation, and unless I am way off I averaged about 7 MPG! is that "normal?"

colangut · 10-23-09, 06:53 AM

7 MPG means it's not running right.

My V8 truck got about 12 around town and 15 on the highway and it was carbureted. With fool infection (joke) you should get a little better.

Like I said on my previous post, it needs to get hooked up to a 4 gas machine and a code scanner. This is not a job for a shade tree.

jkcm · 10-23-09, 07:25 AM

Thanks Colangut. I did not see your post from last night until just now...I will give the Hi-Tech guys a call. Is there someone there with a particular affinity for these old trucks?

John Smith · 10-23-09, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkcm

bad to worse...failed again.
HC went from 822 to 1370 ppm.
CO from 8.67 to 9.22%.
CO2 dropped from 8.71 to 8.02%.

they did use the other tailpipe this time. I did not try the alcohol trick. so now I am fairly sure I will be registering ths thing in MD.

One thing I am curious about is what should my mpg usually range from? I did a rough calculation, and unless I am way off I averaged about 7 MPG! is that "normal?"

From what I found you should get anywhere from 15 to 24 mpg depending on driving conditions. Based on your fuel consumption and increase in HC your engine is not running properly at all. I am sure it has to be throwing codes, did the shop you had it at really not find anything amiss when they pulled the codes? Whatever they did it is running worse than it was before based on your new numbers. If you don't already have it this looks like a wealth of information about your engine. http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...Jet_Engine.pdf

colangut · 10-23-09, 12:46 PM

John,

I HIGHLY doubt that he'd ever see more than 18 MPG, realistically more like 16.

However, your right about the gas mileage being an indication (along with the failed smog) that the motor fool infection is not working correctly.

It's probably stuck in it's limp home mode. It's probably a bad legend sensor, incorrect wiring during the install or perhaps a bad computer.

I also found this:

Technical Notes:
The installation instructions is missing the information on how to connect the o2 sensor and IAT. The wires are not labeled and described in the instructions either. (Red Fused/ Battery, Purple/Ignition, Gray/Tach, White/Digital Tach)
Problem - Ram Jets going into “limp home” or shutting down completely, but turning the ignition off and then restarting it solves the problem temporarily. This problem occurs when the temp sender is located in the upper radiator tank and when coolant level drops, the sender is not in the coolant. This causes a false “HOT” signal and shuts the ECM down. Do not use this arrangement and place your sensor some place other than the radiator for best results.

Fuel injected motors rely on the temperature sender(s) to decide on how much fuel to mix with the air flow. If the sensor give the computer the wrong value, the motor gets too much gas and runs too rich. Clearly what is happening with your motor, but perhaps for another reason.

Anybody at High Tech can help you, they are good guys. Any competent garage with real SAE mechanics can address a problem like this. You could probably find someone closer to DC. However, a lot of mechanics prefer not to mess with stuff like this because they can make more money throwing mufflers, brake pads and timing belts onto cars.

jkcm · 10-23-09, 03:30 PM

Thanks for that link John....I do have the original service manual that came with the ramjet.

Colangut: I spoke with Jay out at High Tech and may be working with them next week. Thanks.

jkcm · 10-27-09, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Smith

I will tell Sebastien to send you a PM with his info. He does not login to Mud everyday.

John: Who is Sebastien?