Where'd You Guys Learn to Weld?

greytandy · 06-16-08, 07:48 PM

I want to learn. Learning from an instructor is optimal, but can it be adequately self taught? I'm not looking for anything fancy, just enough to fix some sheet metal on a 40 when I need to.

colangut · 06-16-08, 10:30 PM

Take a class. I fully believe that there is no such thing as teaching yourself to weld. Ironically, in the trades there are a lot of non profession weldors working as welders - called gypsey welders in the trades meaning they are working as a welder, but don't have any certifications or training. Translation, dangerous.

I took a class ten years ago at Fairfax County Adult ed, but sadly the class has since been canceled along with their welding program in general. They decided that it was better to have another math teacher than a welding industrial arts program

A whole bunch of guys from CLCC took the class together and we had a great time. We started at NVCC but then switched over to Fairfax because they instructor put together a custom oriented class for us geared to automotive welding vs. learning for the trades one step at a time.

You can probably find a class somewhere in MD. If you have vacation time and really, really want to learn fast you can take a week long at the Lincoln Welding School. They even have a class called "Motor Sports Welding".

Nova or NVCC has a welding program but it's geared very much towards pros learning. Bob Warden the instructor out there died recently. He was a very nice guy. IIRC Sebastian took a class out there?

Get a welder, when I get back, I'll teach you the basics. Look for a Hobart Handler 140 or Millermatic 130 . For rust and body work 110V is all that you need.

greytandy · 06-17-08, 05:03 AM

Wow, thanks John. I think I'm seeing the same phenomenon as you in MD. I'm looking for something at Montgomery College, which is just down the road from me, and the trade type classes are hard to find. I need to investigate more.

Blue77FJ40 · 06-17-08, 06:26 AM

Dave, let me know what you find. I took a welding course at Wheaton High (forget what it's called now) about 10 years ago. Did mostly brazing, cutting, and arc welding. They spent zero time on mig and tig.

I don't believe the course is even available anymore. Two great teachers taught the course and let us bring quick projects in the back door. Wish it was still around.

One of the projects was the frame rails for the bed on my mini that many of you never saw.

John Smith · 06-17-08, 07:35 AM

Montgomery College used to offer one welding course as part of their building and construction curriculum at the Rockville campus. I could never find anything in the County's continuing ed programs that are offered at other area schools.

greytandy · 06-17-08, 07:53 AM

Did find this at the Rockville campus:

TTG236: Welding Fundamentals Register A hands-on introduction to commonly used fundamental welding techniques. Note: Students must furnish their own eye and ear protective devices. A Montgomery College statement of successful completion will be awarded to students who demonstrate 70-percent proficiency or higher on the final evaluation. All students must score 90 percent or above on the safety test given at the first class. Textbooks are available at the Rockville Campus Bookstore. Prerequisite: Welding Safety or permission of instructor.

Tuition waiver applies; seniors pay fee only. CRN#: 16398 - CLASS ENROLLMENT IS FULL 11 session(s) 6/21/2008 - 9/13/2008 $412.00 + $110.00 Fee = $522.00; Non-Residents: Add $250.00
Rockville : Gudelsky Inst for Tech Ed (GU) 229 [ - - - - - S - ] 08:00 AM 12:26 PM No class on 07/05/08, 08/30/08

jmvar · 06-17-08, 10:51 AM

If you want to sign up for that class do it early, every time I have gone to sign up it has been full.

I think we should get a group together and hire someone with a lot on automotive welding knowledge and a good rep to hold evening classes with a curriculum specifically geared towards what we want.

colangut · 06-17-08, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmvar

If you want to sign up for that class do it early, every time I have gone to sign up it has been full.

I think we should get a group together and hire someone with a lot on automotive welding knowledge and a good rep to hold evening classes with a curriculum specifically geared towards what we want.

That is exactly what I did in 1996 with the club and it worked out great. Some guys from CLCC and I along with a few other gearhead friends signed up for a class at NVCC in Manassas. After the first day, I realized that the classes there were oriented towards getting a job as a welder vs a hobby oriented welder. You had to spent an entire semester doing arc, another semester doing gas and then you could finally do MIG followed by a semester of TIG. I did not want to learn how to arc weld pipe together so I called the instructor at another school and asked if he would teach us an automotive based class. He agreed. Over one semester, we spent two weeks per subject, two classes per week. Stick, Mig, Plasma, TIG and Gas welding/cutting along with some other neat stuff like carbon arc, use of tools such as shear, metal worker, grinders, etc. It was a great class. At the end, I took and passed the MIG test for certification. You were also allowed to bring in whatever you wanted and work on it there.

A few other guys joined the class with us, they were regulars who took the class over and over again just to use the tools. It was a great thing. Best of all, the instructor was not just a shop teacher with general knowledge of welding, he was a welding engineer with a degree from U of MD and a certified welding instructor, tester and welder. He was an awesome teacher. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with shop teachers teaching welding. Lance and I had Mr. Becker for metal shop back in 7th grade and that was my first formal exposure to welding. He was also a great teacher as well. This class along with a good friend who is a professional welder/steam fitter is where I got most of my knowledge. Having a good welding store helps a lot as well, I'd recommend Arcet in Manassas, they are a wealth of knowledge and an invaluable resource. There is no way that I'd buy a welder on ebay and miss out on what I have learned from them.

I'll do a tech day for you guys when I get back, but you'd all be better off taking a formal class if at all possible. With welding, you need to practice on a regular basis and ask a lot of questions. You also need someone to critique your form when welding and your welds as well. It's also critical to do destructive testing on your welds as you'll find that a weld can look strong but not really have any strength. It's also ideal for each student to have their own welding machine or at least share with one other student. You can't learn much sitting there.

One bad thing about being self taught is that you can learn bad habits that are hard to relearn later on.

On the other hand, if you just want to weld sheet metal and mufflers, you can learn DIY. It's really just safety related stuff like roll cages, frame modifications, seat and seatbelt mounts, winch and recover points that are critical and should be left to those who are certified and professionally trained as weldors. Other stuff like sliders may not seam like a critical area, but if you over heat the frame it can crack later. It's also one thing if you do it DIY for yourself, but when people charge $$$ for what they are not qualified for, people can get hurt.

-Stumbaugh

colangut · 06-26-08, 11:52 AM

I just talked to a welding instructor that can put together a class for you guys. He's a certified welding instructor and works for Arcet. Let me know if you guys want to do this as a club event and who you want to be the point of contact and I'll get you in touch with the guy.

I think you could also get a club discount on gas and supplies as well.

Arcet is an awesome vendor.

-Stumbaugh

greytandy · 06-26-08, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colangut

I just talked to a welding instructor that can put together a class for you guys. He's a certified welding instructor and works for Arcet. Let me know if you guys want to do this as a club event and who you want to be the point of contact and I'll get you in touch with the guy.

I think you could also get a club discount on gas and supplies as well.

Arcet is an awesome vendor.

-Stumbaugh

Where is he located?

colangut · 06-26-08, 11:56 AM

Manassas as far as I know, but I am not sure.

Maybe you guys could do a weekend class?

greytandy · 06-26-08, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colangut

Manassas as far as I know, but I am not sure.

Maybe you guys could do a weekend class?

John:

Please send me his info. I don't mind organizing if there is interest. It would have to be a weekend class. Thanks!

- Dave

colangut · 06-26-08, 12:13 PM

Dave,

Email me your phone number and I'll have him call you.

John

greytandy · 06-26-08, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colangut

Dave,

Email me your phone number and I'll have him call you.

John

Done.

breckbone · 06-26-08, 02:24 PM

I'm definitely interested...hopefully my schedule won't keep me from coming. Would LOVE to learn this, tho.

colangut · 06-29-08, 03:54 PM

Breck,

Did you fix your brakes?

-Stum

H2o · 07-03-08, 05:55 AM

Stum is right, the best way to learn is through a class. You get a lot of practice time, and more importantly, experience.... You get to ask questions, learn about what to do and what not to do, different processes, etc... But you need a class that can meet on a regular basis if you are going to learn anything.

I took the class at NOVA in Manassas. Bob was my instructor (he was a hell of a guy). The classes have now been taken over by a few welding instructors that are not as relaxed as Bob was with his classes. I took Mig/tig, OxyAcet/ Stick classes. I thought I would like one process over another, but i came to love and appreciate each one. OxyAcet is by far the coolest with the range of stuff you can do for the lowest set up cost. Mig is the best for gen truck repair. Tig is more expensive but really bad ass.

Since these County/City classes are rare and hard to find, you DO need to register REALLY early if you want to get in. There are other classes offered around the area but they are in the $1000 range and up.

Learning on your own has become more and more feasible though. check out the Ask Andy portion of the Millerwelds.com website. (it is a forum like mud). With this and instructional videos, you can pretty much do it on your own. Be warned to REALLY pay attention to the safety portion of welding. You don't want to set yourself on fire, or your truck, or your house, or your buddy's house. And watch out for the UVs because you will get mean sunburns from welding. If you go down this route, call me and I can give you some pointers on what process to go with.

Good luck.

Belowdeckfab · 07-05-08, 02:32 PM

I know it's short notice, but I'll be welding the rockers back onto by folk's 45 tomorrow (Sunday) if anyone feels like watching. If your'e interested PM me for directions to the shop. I'm in Warrenton VA.

greytandy · 07-05-08, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belowdeckfab

I know it's short notice, but I'll be welding the rockers back onto by folk's 45 tomorrow (Sunday) if anyone feels like watching. If your'e interested PM me for directions to the shop. I'm in Warrenton VA.

Definitely interested, but also definitely tired from vacation.

Maybe in a year you can try again?

dallasryan · 11-16-08, 12:04 AM

Is anyone putting together a class? I am definately in if you do.

greytandy · 11-16-08, 04:19 AM

Oh John?????

I think you have an eager audience.

colangut · 11-16-08, 08:59 PM

Soon young grasshopper, soon.

Still working on my house.

-Stumbaugh

billmiranda · 12-15-08, 09:53 AM

House???.. your priorities are messed up bro... the thing is getting us all over there to weld.. and every now and then,.. just a little "hey guys.. I have to put up some drywall... y'all want to help and then get back to class?"... that house'll be done in no-time.

Good to have you back,

v/r,

WM

bmorefj40 · 12-23-08, 01:30 PM

Hey, I'm new to the MUD and just found the VA/DC/MD- Capital Land Cruiser Club. I'm in the middle of finishing power steering and a drum/disc brake conversion, so I'll have plenty of pics to post up soon for my newb intro.

I'm in Baltimore, but would definitely look for that opportunity to learn welding. In the meantime I've had my eye on a Hobart 187 at tsc. I've looked for classes around Bmore and unless you're willing to take the $1000 a level certification classes, I haven't found anything. I figured I needed at least 2 levels of classes just to get to MIG. I was going to just welding scrap in my garage and look for some 'experts' to help analyze my welds, but some experienced advice would be welcome.

Blue77FJ40 · 12-24-08, 05:30 AM

Welcome to MUD and the CLCC site, bmorefj40. It's nice to have another cruiserhead in Maryland. We're hoping to convince John/colangut to host some classes as time permits... I'm betting that John'll be thinking more on Bill's work on the house/teach us welding plan!

colangut · 12-24-08, 08:17 AM

You guys willing to stand a cold garage sometime in Mid January and learn some welding?

Sometime around the middle of the month is best for me.

Saturday or Sunday middle of the day would be best as it's warmest then. We could hit the Old Brouge afterwards.

Everyone needs to have their own welding gloves. Ideally a welding mask and welding fume respirator. Safety goggles are a must as a ear plugs and preferably ear muffs for sound protection.

No sandals (Sebastian).

No clothing that is not a natural fiber, cotton, wool and leather are fine. No polyester, nylon or polar fleece.

No contact lenses. Wear your eyeglasses if your a contact lens wearer! Some say that you can safely weld in them, but not as a beginner!

Anyone and everyone is welcome, CLCC or not. I've got a few Porsche friends who want to come. I just need a heads up of how many to expect.

Be warned, there will be a lecture. I went to welding school in 1996 and fully believe that the lecture part of the class was just as useful and meaningful as the lab. Expect 50 percent of lab time, everyone will get some torch time.

Welding 101 Syllabus:

1. Safety First! What shade of mask, what kind of gear. Long sleeves and no exposed skin. Dangers of weld arc and fumes. Contact lenses, etc. How to wear a welding helmet.

2. Shop Practices: Fire Watch, Fumes, Sparks, Arc Light, 15 minutes in shop after last weld, avoid damaged to glass. Don't step on welding cord, how to hold the gun in hand. Don't wrap cord up tightly.

3. Welding Processes Overview: Mig (GMAW), Tig (GTAW), Arc, Acetylene (Oxy-Fuel), Plasma, Spot, etc.

4. MIG Process (the focus of this class)

5. How to adjust the welder - a key factor to producing great welds. What goes wrong with the machine and gun and how to fix it. Troubleshooting.

6. Good and bad habits. Bad habits are hard to give up! Learn it right the first time.

7. Body and hand position, welding in and out of position. Always try to weld in position. Isometric body position. Two hands on gun.

8. Weld puddle, adjustment, puddle control, heat control. Also, timed spot or interrupted arc for sheet metal. Vertical up vs. down on plate vs. sheet. Pre-heat, welding in freezing temperatures, wind and shielding gas, wire size, stickout, etc.

9. Weld testing - destructive of course! If you don't see failure, it's hard to understand a good vs. bad weld. Heat affected zone, weld root, etc.

10. Grinder 101 - different uses of grinder, how to grind correctly, control of heat with grinding. "if you can't weld, you should learn how to grind correctly"

11. Last but not least, how to lay down a nice bead. Tips and tricks. Hot vs. cold welds. Wire speed adjustment by ear. Weld sound and it's effect on the bead.

Sound interesting?

Feedback?

What days are good in Mid to late Jan?

-Stumbaugh

dallasryan · 12-24-08, 08:31 AM

Sounds good, where can we get the things we need?

bmorefj40 · 12-24-08, 08:45 AM

A cold garage is where I spend most of my free time, so it will feel just like home. The syllabus looks great! Sunday the 18th or Saturday the 25th is open for me. Does that work for a lot of other people?

colangut · 12-24-08, 11:07 AM

You can get gloves and ear/eye protection from Home Depot. They sell welding gloves in the tool section. Tractor Supply also has them as does any welding supply outfit.

If you live near Manassas VA, I'd strongly suggest Arcet Equipment on Euclid. Ask for Charlie, Chuck or Devon.

As much as you can save money by buying a welder on Ebay, you'll be giving up the information that you can get from a good vendor like Arcet.

greytandy · 12-28-08, 10:19 AM

I'm in. I'll be out of town January 10-18, but other than that ...