Lone Star Round Up Photos and critique

[BrettinSanAntonio]

Photos at: Picasa Web Albums - Brett - Lone Star Lan...

Well we made it back from the Round Up in Katemcy Sunday afternoon. It's only two hours and fifteen minutes from my house in San Antonio and that's with one fuel/drink stop.

I found the Round Up event to be very different from other Toyota and Land Rover events I’ve attend at Barnwell or other locations. This is truly a rock crawler’s event at heart. There are maybe two nice trails to explore for stock or slightly modified vehicles but the vast majority of the property is for heavily modified rigs. The granite rocks don’t forgive and will leave you with some serious damage if you’re not paying attention or your spotter isn’t competent.

I found the event to be far less organized than other events and the majority of it was over when I arrived on Friday afternoon. They had the raffle and trail awards Friday night. Apparently the event actually started on Wednesday but the three of us attending from San Antonio (and numerous others that came in Saturday from other locals) never came across that bit of info. There were no night runs during the event and no wheeling was allowed on Sunday. Effectively, I had only Friday late afternoon and Saturday to wheel. If I had known this before the event, I probably would have skipped it and saved $160. However, I don’t assign anyone blame; I just didn’t know which questions to ask. Now I know how the event works and its schedule.

Another important thing to remember is you are required to have at least three vehicles in a group to go wheeling on the property. This is primarily because of safety. If one vehicle is damaged or breaks down, another can stay with the disabled vehicle and the remaining can go for help. Again, this is a very rough environment and breakage can easily occur. All this being said, we did come across a few loners on the trail.

Overall people were very friendly but there tended to be “groups” that stuck together on the trail and in camp.

There was a definite dog problem. There were freaking dogs everywhere and most were not controlled by there owners. Dogs were fighting and barking all weekend. We had dogs attempt to steal or food and then returned later to pee on our camp gear. I guess we should have appeased them with food.

The camping areas were primitive with no water or electricity but served those tent camping just fine. We did experience people driving through our camp on several occasions. They were either oblivious to our camp or simply didn’t care. They came within inches of our tents and camp gear.

The porta-potties were not maintained and were literally overflowing. Yes, very disgusting. For an event cost of $180, I’d expect these to be useable.

Friday night’s entertainment, The John D. Hale Band, was very good and gave a great show. It was one of the longest sets I’ve ever witnessed from any band. These guys are truly hungry musicians and have genuine talent.

All this being said, I will probably attend the Round Up again due to it’s proximity to San Antonio and its beautiful scenery. It’s kind of like off-roading at Enchanted Rock State Natural Area. However, this time I know the schedule, how the park works and when to arrive. It would have been far less expensive to show up and pay for one day of wheeling ($30 I heard) than to pay for the whole event and only get one day’s use out of it. I’m glad I can say I’ve attend the Lone Star Land Cruisers event at Katemcy. I would call it overall, good experience.

[Bear80]

Originally Posted by BrettinSanAntonio

It would have been far less expensive to show up and pay for one day of wheeling ($30 I heard) than to pay for the whole event and only get one day’s use out of it. I’m glad I can say I’ve attend the Lone Star Land Cruisers event at Katemcy. I would call it overall, good experience.

Your story sounds nearly identical to mine of the frist Round Up there, minus the camping. If I recall correctly I to got tricked to as when the real start date was and I showed up when everyone was pretty much leaving. I only paid to wheel for the day and yes I was one of the loners but then again that's my style of 'wheeling anyway.

That really pisses me off to hear of blatant ignorance among dog owners who, for a lack of reason are too lazy to learn the first things about rearing a dog. That sucks too about the driving through your camp area. I think some people though are genuienly ignorant of that curtiously because it hasn't happened to them.

I wish I still could have went Friday night. Like you mentioned, that's the real highlight not the limited 'wheeling.

BTW, sorry I didn't call you back but I got your message late Friday but I was already in Dallas to meet a client I had put off to attend Big Bend.

[mmw68]

Brett - I decided to stay in a hotel close to the event this year. A hot shower and clean potty is nice.
Last year I camped, but was up half the night with noise from the drunk people.

I would be pissed about any dog pissing on my gear.

Good to see you guys...Hope to see you back next year.

[LandCruisers4Life]

I for one am glad to hear these reports. Now I know I'm not going - ever. I'd much rather make a run to west texas, or colorado or some place like that than waste my time going to Katemcy. I'm suprised that it's supported by the TLCA after all those negatives against it. Dogs should be left at home, or at least kept on a leash and in your own personal camp. People driving through your camp, is just downright stupidity.

[rrdogma]

To be fair, it was only the Hummers that drove through our camp. One right after the other. Seriously within inches of the mirrors on my car and my easy up WHERE I WAS SITTING. I thought they were going to crush my feet. Boo.

The dog situation was not cool. I love dogs more than most people, but if I would have had a gun I would have shot a few of them. And then maybe their owners for being so inconsiderate. Letting your dog urinate on someone else's coolers is atrocious.

I was very pleasantly surprised to find that they had showers and a separate shower and commode area for women only.

My poor truck mostly stayed in camp as usual. I went out a little bit but was way too intimidated by the granite. I did test drive the FJ Cruiser and the Trail Team driver took us to a fun obstacle so we could try out the gizmos. I still don't know what he meant by telling me to drive for the rear tires but I had a blast anyway. He was very patient.

The gathering of Land Cruiser folks was awesome. All different kinds of rigs, even a 45 truck that drove all the way from SoCal. Everyone was super friendly and nice. Met a lot of really great people.

[tucker74]

Sorry to hear you had such a bad time, this was my 4th year and I learned some of those lessons the first year as well. The next year I showed up earlier and wheeled all day Thurs, Fri and part of Sat. Unfortunately that isn't posted anywhere, and a lot of folks are just plain wheeled out by Saturday It is a TLCA event, and being such lots of "clubs" do tend to camp and wheel together simply because they all know each other. You'll find most of the large national events to be this way, everyone tends to welcome anyone if you make the effort to walk over and say hello however. I agree this year the organization was pretty lax, and agree with you 100% on the restroom situation.

On the other hand it's a fun event and the terrain is unlike anything you'll ever wheel on anywhere. Sorry you showed up so late and missed some of the organized rides the Kruse's put on, those are fun and very educational for first timers (especially for direction around the park). After the first year I've always tended to run with the Austin guys and whoever we've made friends with that year though. The organized runs are just too big, and you spend most of your day waiting for others to be coached over obstacles.

I didn't see anyone's camps being blatantly driven through, the middle is kind of no-mans land if you happened to be out there Sorry you didn't find the Austin crew, we wheeled with the Cottonland guys two runs both Friday and Saturday. Thanks for putting on the movie Sunday ...

Tucker

[Texican]

I was the event chairman.......as for your concerns.
The dates of the event were and still are on the sign up page.
Organized guided trail runs were held on Thurs and Friday throughout both days.
I discussed at length with Randy Kruse the bathroom and shower situation Sunday when I was the last to leave Katemcy Rocks.
The dog situation will be addressed at the next event.
That said, most of my time this year was concentrated on the Friday evening festivity.
It is an enormous amount of work to make sure the BBQ raffle and band go off as smoothly as it did, we fed 250.
AS far the comments as to TLCA sanctioning the event........we have at least 50% of the attendees of the Roundup that do attend more than one TLCA event, and it is common knowledge that the Roundup is one of, if not the, premier event on the calender.
Butch Baker

[Garth]

Oh, man, that didn't sound like any fun at all. I will say that the feedback from the first roundup was the opposite...people couldn't say enough good things. I haven't attended since the first two of these events, but I will say that LSLC has a way of making things right...so I would bet on a PM from the president soon.

I will vouch for the difficulty in organizing a national event with so many participants and logistics. I only assisted with registration the first two years...and just the registration process took a step backwards between years one and two (due to my lack of organization on year two).

It's tough when an event is put on by 100% volunteers with lives and families etc.

Not being there, I still have to think that the music and food was unrivaled at other events.

This thread will grow as LSLCers reply and the negatives will be heavily considered when planning next years event.

Sorry to hear of your bad experience and that others will not attend a Roundup because of it...but constructive criticism is the only way to make the event better.

[LilRicky]

Brett,
We're glad you were able to make it to the event. I hope I'm not intruding by answering your post. I'm a member of the host club, but not one of the organizers, so feel free to take my input with a grain of salt.

As far as not being like most events, most of us will consider that a compliment. Lone Star attended several events as a group, as well as several as individuals, and we took the parts we liked from events, and tossed the things we didn't like. It is these differences that probably are the source of problems for some folks.

The event is largely unstructured in terms of runs, schedules, trail signups, etc. This is by design. If you go to a Cruise Moab or Black Hills Cruiser Classic or similar events, you will need to sign up for specific runs months in advance, and you will be limited to those runs during the event for the most part. All the rigs on each run are specifically qualified and nearly identical in capabilites for that run.

If this is what you were expecting, I'm sure it was a bit of weird place. But that's also the beauty of it. Want to meet the White Trash guys? go say hi and run with them. Want to hang out with trucks that are more like yours, great. Run whatever you want with whomever you want, whenever you are ready. We try very hard not to put much in the way of limitations on the trail runs.

As far as not being much to do for a stock-ish rig, I'd disagree. Again this is where the event is so different from most events. You can take a near stock 80 out with a bunch of buggies, and both can have a great time on the same trail. In other events, you can't deviate from the trail markers, and you end up following in the tire tracks of the rig in front of you. At Katemcy, its just one big granite field, you can go wherever you want. If the wierdo in the 40 in front of you wants to climb a big ledge, you can go 30ft to the right and go around on a near perfectly flat section, no worries. In this sense you get to go out with folks you would never be compatible with (trail-wise) and still be comfortable. BUT you need to think differently, and not just be following the taillights of the rig in front of you.

A great example is Josh Baker. He broke his rig on Friday, and wheeled all day Saturday with the bigger buggies IN A GOLF CART! Try doing that in Moab!

The raffle not being organized? Again its just very different. At most events, the raffle IS the big social event. For us, its the party AFTER the raffle. So the raffle itself is moved along quite quickly. Frankly, I have been to several of the other big TLCA events, and I think our raffle (in terms of the variety, quality, and quantity of prizes) is at least as good as any I have seen, and better than most. We just don't prolong it artificially.

Camping complaints I can't speak to, since I stayed in town. But again, since there are no assigned camp sites with little numbers and clearly marked boundrys, its not always easy to tell where somebody's camp IS. Hopefully no one was doing this on purpose...especially me.

Dogs? There were several, again, not something you get to bring along at many events. Got a crazy uncle with a Hemi-green Peterbuilt and pink flamingos on his trailer? Hell, bring him along too. Certainly whomever you bring with you, they should not be allowed to rumage through campsites or pee on people's tents.

The whole event is very much a Come-As-You-Are and Go-As-You-Please. Frankly, this is not for everyone. Some folks like to be told that to run this trail, show up at such and such a place at exactly 6:15AM and line up in alphabetical order according to VIN. Follow the truck in front of you, do not touch the soil next to the trail! You must have a 62 degree approach angle to attempt this trail. etc., etc. There are lots of events like that. Damn good events, too, don't get me wrong. I'll be driving to BHCC this summer to attend just such an event myself for the second time! But there are not very many events like the Roundup.

Is it all cinnamon and kittens? Of course not. To have an event like this (either way) you have to make some trade-offs. The band and the BBQ are not cheap. We could likely do a better job of communicating what to expect and not to expect. And personally, I think 1 or 2 specifically scheduled runs, especially on the first day or two, would help some folks get aquainted and get rolling. I'll suggest it to the organizers for next year.

All in all though, I have never met a friendlier, more fun, and more laid back group of folks to share a trail, a beer, or a campfire with. Any member of Lone Star would happily have you on the trail with them, help you fix your junk when it breaks, do their best to make sure you have a good time, and shoo away the dog who pissed on your tent. That's just how we roll.

Hope to see you again. Come find me and I'll buy you a beer!

-Rick

[rrdogma]

Originally Posted by Garth

Not being there, I still have to think that the music and food was unrivaled at other events.

The music, food, and raffle were phenomenal. Did I mention the raffle? Out of this world!!! I even won something, not sure what it is though . And if you didn't win anything in the raffle, they had prizes for that too. Very nicely done.

Kelly

[nuclearlemon]

sorry you had that experience, glad you enjoyed at least part of it. i'm a dog person too, but as i write this, i can hear three dogs that i'd like to see dead also (i'm sure nick won't mind me blowing a few more shots through the rifle i sold him), so i understnd that also.

coming from the cruise moab point of view, organized runs can be a good thing if you are not with a group because they force you to meet people. i'm not very good with folks i don't know and attended my first two cruise moabs outlaw. it was great to see all the rigs, but i felt out of place. the first year, i knew one person attending and hung with him most of the time and i met medusa since he was camped next to me. the next year, i met a few more people and it was getting better. the third year, i met a few on the trails and some ornery old texican forced me to socialize with the party crowd, and by the fourth year, i knew most everyone and it was a freakin' blast!

so organized events do have their place. i attended surf n turf a couple years ago and it's extremely lax, like roundup sounds. if i didn't already know about 25 percent of the crowd, i would've hated it, but i knew a bunch of people to hang with.

i hope you attend again and have a better experience. the pics look hideous. i'm a mountain person and just don't like the million miles of nothing, but i'm sure i'll attend roundup for the people (that's the only reason i attend cruise moab...i don't particularily like utah's scenery either). i know a lot of the texas crowd and oddly, i still consider many of them great friends. besides, if i go, maybe butch'll finally shut up

[Texican]

Originally Posted by nuclearlemon

the third year, i met a few on the trails and some ornery old texican forced me to socialize with the party crowd, i know a lot of the texas crowd and oddly, i still consider many of them great friends. besides, if i go, maybe butch'll finally shut up

Hey I represent that remark!
I ain't shuttin' up.

[nuclearlemon]

Originally Posted by Texican

Hey I represent that remark!
I ain't shuttin' up.

aw, crap

[ilikebigtires]

I guess I should throw in my 2 cents...

The good: The showers were a good surprise. The scenery was beautiful. This is a great place for hiking and rock hunting. The people that attended were some of the nicest that I've ever met. The food and the band were exceptional. The raffle, although lengthy, was well organized (who can blame you for having too many prizes!). The towns people were very nice. They were very welcoming to Land Cruiser visitors. Driving the trail team FJ (on the trail) was the highlight of my trip. Thank you Toyota for wowing us! The generator worked long enought to power up the projector/surround sound for FJ documentary and part of Monty Python...I was uncertain if this would actually work...lol. All of these things were great, but what was priceless??? Kelly's Rockstardom as she passed out cherry cheer to all! There was almost a riot when the supply ran out!

The bad: Imagine looking up from your book and seeing a dog's face about 6 inches (and closing) from the container of chicken and pork that was just grilled for a dinner Paella. Imagine having (for 3 days from the butt crack of dawn to wee hours of the night) listening to dog owners yell at their dogs "get back here" and "bad dog". Imagine rummaging around to gather your morning coffee provisions and find that your cooler, books, etc had been peed on by the dog that was just lurking around your campsite 5 minutes prior. COME ON PEOPLE! When did it become a good idea to let your dog run around in a pack with other unleashed visiting dogs. This is completely unacceptable. Sorry for beating a dead horse (or dog in this case), but this needs to be addressed for the next event. I'll continue my rant...There were a lot of non-Toyota vehicles at this event including an entire gaggle of Hummers! I guess it'll be OK if I bring the Isuzu next year??? The porta-a-potties were very disgusting. You are better off finding a good tree or cactus to pee on. Somehow all 3 of us missed the agenda and trail information? As most of you know, Kelly is the most thorough rule follower that I know. If she missed the rules, it's probably because they weren't posted or they were unclear. Lastly, IT WAS FREAKIN' COLD, lol, but I'll have to take that up with Mother Nature.




All in all, I think it was a good experience and would consider going again. Next time Kelly, Brett, and I are going to find the prizewinning Topaz!

Note to self...pack more thermal undies . I almost got hypothermia again.

[fjwagon]

I do remember to going with a couple of friends to the very first Roundup and had a lot of fun. Best part was driving through the trails and yes there were some parts you could actually drive around. And we did. Did not break anything but bottomed out a lot stince I was running a stock suspension. It was an ugly feeling hearing the scraping going on as we drove through some off the deep ruts.(a collapse muffler was the only carnage) Something else I like was the sight of fj40's parked all over the place. The raffle and food were great too especially peope who won something. I did not win shit other then a t-shirt. All and all the hospitality was great. Another reason to attend is the granite, I may be wrong but there is no other place like this in Texas. The next place to you see granite is up North and out of the state. And lets not forget the scenery.

The only "nagetive" I remember was the price. I usually wheel a day or two and this was one of the biggest reasons I have not gone back is the cost to attend...it went up drastically. I don't remember it costing that much even though I regestered 2 cruisers. I was surprised to hear about the dogs and the "drive though the camp" and overflowing crappers. I'm sure they will do a better job next year.

[JasonH]

Thanks to Brett and everyone for the feedback. Butch, Rick, etc. pretty much covered everything. Some of what you mentioned is by design and some definitely needs to be addressed. The dog thing never came up in the past so we didn't know to police it. The facility issue was discussed with the Kruse's and will be addressed next year.

We do try to keep the trail riding casual, but some more organization would be helpful. We discussed during the driver's meeting what was available and expected, but maybe next year we'll get it on paper in the driver's packet. The first couple of years we offered a scenic tour of the area via primitive county roads that was well received. It didn't come up this year but we probably need to offer that up again. I do think there is something for everyone there.

TLCA events do tend to die down on Saturday as the folks who drove in long distances will leave to get home. That's why we have the party on Friday night. I usually miss the dinner at other events for this reason.

Anyway, we do learn a lot every year and hopefully each year's event will get better!

[JasonH]

Originally Posted by fjwagon

The only "nagetive" I remember was the price. I usually wheel a day or two and this was one of the biggest reasons I have not gone back is the cost to attend...it went up drastically. I don't remember it costing that much even though I regestered 2 cruisers.

I've heard this comment from others and I don't understand it. As far as I know, the cost hasn't changed since we started the Roundup. The first couple of years it was one price of $150. Then we changed to $75 for registration and $75 to the park (plus $5 for each additional passenger). This year they offered up the $80 price to include all passengers. Individuals lost 5 bucks but families got a better deal.
The price of the event is in line with other TLCA events and I feel offers as much or more.

[orangefj45]

well, i'm sorry to hear that you did'nt have the best time you could have.

i for one have been to the roundup twice; last year and the year prior. i would have been there this year but i have a two week old son and a wife who's recovering from a c-section.....but she already comitted to going next year.

i live in northern CA so going to an event in TX is definetly somewhat of a commitment. it's a 3000 mile plus round trip for us. on the second day of my first roundup i already knew that i was going back for sure. and i did.

the hospitality is second to none, and the wheeling is awesome.

i have attended many events; rubithon ( i'm a trail leader ), fordyce, duzy-ershim, mud-n-yer-eye in hollister, calico cleanup, mcgrew trail ride, cow mountain, ramsey trail, the 'fj45 run", the "fj55 run", cruising in the woods in OR, ...... you get the picture. and i have to tell you, rubithon, the "fj45 run" ( my event) and the lone star roundup are my favorites. i have been to a couple of events and won't go back. the roundup is on my "go to" list for sure. and it'll stay there for a long time to come!

[Bear80]

I think I speak for Brett when I say he wasn't trying to be negative about the report but mearly objective. I get the feeling LSLC guys feel they need to defend the Round Up from us ACLC nay sayers. Knowing Brett, Kelly and Jen, I strongly doubt they mean to put down any aspect of Round Up in anyway. I'm still in awe these events come together as well as they do. I remember the days ICBM didn't have a raffle or bar-b-que dinner, just a pot luck. Hat's off to LSLC and please don't feel like we are strangers.

From what I see, the only issue to address next time around is the dogs. I don't mind dogs, it's nice to be able to bring them along but there are so many owners who lack control. I think if pets are allowed they need to be leashed at ALL times and that needs to be stressed in camp. I don't belive in having to keep a constant leash on but it's just a necessity due to incompetent owners.

[BrettinSanAntonio]

Wow! I didn’t intend for my thread to be a Round Up bash in any way. I wrote it from the perspective of someone answering several questions from local club members about the event.

Let me say this and be clear: I enjoyed the event. I will return to the event next year. I will volunteer to help and not just be a critic of the event.
Please understand everyone, I’m not trying to spread ill will in any way about the enormous undertaking this event must be. You guys did a great job.

Butch, I’d like to thank you and all the other people that put your personal time, blood, sweat and tears in this years Round Up.

I didn’t meet one person at the event (minus two new Hummer drivers cruising through our camp) that I found to be rude or unhelpful. As a matter of fact, I’d like to name one person that went far out of his way to make us feel welcome and show us around. Clutchy. I believe Clutchy is from parts east of Texas. He broke away from what he was doing to show us the ropes and where to set up camp. Very, very good guy.

Again, I’m not trying to take anything away from this event. It was a learning experience for me (first time on solid rocks) and now I understand how it functions so things will go smoother for me next year.

I think some good can be taken from these experiences and Jason and Butch nailed those.

It’s really a great event and next year I plan on arriving Wednesday so I can get to know more people and learn the trails.

[Texican]

I absolutely took no offense ('cept for that crack 'bout TLCA not supporting the Round up)
Just for your info, the Roundup is one of the few events that actually send a percentage of the profits in to the TLCA.
And ICBM still has no raffle or BBQ, it is our no work at all fun run.

Clutchy is our adopted Miss/Tennesse stepchild.

[Bear80]

I thought I heard they have a raffle at ICBM now, or is that the Jamboree? Guess I need to get back out! The last ICBM I was able to make was disbanded by hurrican Rita that scared everyone off after Katrina and I have yet to make the Jamboree.

[Green Lantern]

Thanks Brett!

I think we're all on the same page and I really appreciate your post. I want to repeat one point that may have been glossed over. Lone Star is special because we're so freakin' independent. That's good of course.

Neither the Kruses' or the officers attempted to police the camp. It's been my experience that if you have a problem, you ask nice the first time and then you go look for help. I apologize to you because I was unaware you had a problem with folks driving through your campsite and a problem with uncontrolled dogs.

The Round Up is an open event and I was happy to have the hummers there. If they were discourteous, then I would back you up on anything you felt was appropriate to say. Like Ige, I'm a big dog lover. Also like Ige, I insist that dog owners keep their pets under control. If th