tip of africa to london england

[crushers]

Evening all,
i was approached the other day by a potential customer about building him a unit for traveling from cape town to london england. i need to infuse myself with information to make decsisions about this unit.
they are either going with a HZJ75 with modified box or a HJ61 or a HZJ77. i know which unit i would recommend but which would YOU recommend and why?
does anyone have favorite websites that they frequent that would be good to review? how about books on the subject?
i have a very good idea of what i think would work but since there are lives on the line i want to be able to back my suggestions with documented proof and if i need to change my thinking, now would be the time.
they are talking about elevations from sea level to 9000 ft, from corragated roads for hundreds of km to tight twisty trails. fuel water and parts are a obvious, cooking and camping, layouts for custom box or canopy would be appreciated.
any suggestions will be entertained.
cheers

[SGT0311]

I know a guy that just did the same trip in a Defender 110, might want to contact him for a different perspective... Just a thought. Not sure if his web site is still up or not. www.africaoverland.org it might be .net I haven't looked at it in a while.

[crushers]

perfect,
thanks

[wesintl]

Anyone of them would make it fine, right?. I have been to Foxy 4x4 in FR and they had a few vehicles that had been to cape town and back I got to check out. One was either an hj60 or hj61 that had made the trip something like 5-6 times. I was just getting the translated version though plus it was a few years ago.

I'd check the bushtaxi site and I'd probably go with the vehicle that is more native to EU and africa for part availablilty.

[cruiser_guy]

Above all adhere to the K.I.S.S. principle. Do NOT use anything electronic in a life or death situation if at all possible (ie: mechanical injection ONLY). Do NOT create anything custom if failure of that part would leave you DOA. KNOW what is available through Toyota in the countries that they are passing through and make that a high priority in the decision process. Third world mechanics all use stick welders and 5 lb hammers if you can't fix it with those it may not get fixed!!

If your customer is not mechanically inclined or is not interested to learn about his unit think twice about the whole idea.

I know many folks think the 3B is not the most powerful or whatever but I have easy parts availability here in Central America which may not be the case with other engine models. Parts availability is a big thing in the middle of nowhere where is can take days and $$$$ for parts to be released from customs.

[Diescipel]

Have you seen the ongoing story in Toyota Trails about the trip some South Africans are doing in South America? They are using a 75 or later series troopy. Pretty cool set up, but they don't discuss it much but may have in earlier articles that I haven't read. Should give you lots of ideas.

B

[crushers]

Originally Posted by cruiser_guy

Above all adhere to the K.I.S.S. principle. where is can take days and $$$$ for parts to be released from customs.

agreed and common sense

[crushers]

Originally Posted by NorCalCruzr

Have you seen the ongoing story in Toyota Trails about the trip some South Africans are doing in South America? They are using a 75 or later series troopy. Pretty cool set up, but they don't discuss it much but may have in earlier articles that I haven't read. Should give you lots of ideas.

B

wierdest thing is they switched from RHD to LHD...
never could understand that part...

[ridgerunner]

You say HZJ75 with a modified box- do you mean troopie or pickup? I think I'd stay with a troopie or four door- accessibility is nice and you're not as cramped with a pickup cab. A 61 has a turbo which will help with the elevation, but are they common with five speeds? How common is the 12HT compared to a IHZ?

Personally, I'd get a HZJ75 troopie, load it up with factory options (pto/cable lockers), emu or beltons, and some 7.50R16 Michelin XZYs on factory splits. These tires are available in Europe and Africa, and can get 40K out of a set. Load range G. I'd get a roof tent system not unlike Desert-Tec's, roller drawer the back.

If I wanted a pimped out model, I'd built it like this:
http://www.desert-tec.de/alger6.jpg
http://www.desert-tec.de/desert1.jpg

Michelins so you won't have to pay these guys to play with their cool-ass beadbreaker:
http://www.desert-tec.de/mau4.jpg

[Satamax]

HZJ78 i would say! Same as the 75, but new! I would avoid the 61, may be, turbos and africa don't go well together! Exept, if you're sure of the turbo and oil cooling etc! The HZJ105, could be an option too! For parts availability, i think the best bet is either 2.4 hilux, or 3.4 cruiser! (2L or 3B) Myself, i think i'd step up and go unimog!

[roscoFJ73]

I would take the 75series if its a troopy,but a cab chassis with a purpose built camper on the back would be better.
Then again the 12HT has a fairly good reputation for reliability and blasting across a continent in a big turbo charged 4 door 4x4 cruiser is kind of appealing.

If its more than 2 people they will need a 4dr.

Its also gonna depend on the time they will be on the road.

Damn it Wayne you could have asked us to choose between a cruiser and a bleep and a patrol or something easy

[lshobie]

A friend fo mine did a similar trip, he made a very concealed spot for a S&W weeson 357, it saved his life X 2 - and not from animals.

Id go with a troopy, you could check and see the australia long distance setups. I have seen a cold water system hooked up to thier a/c unit.

Oh, and tell them to bring a few pair of sunglasses, constant wiping of sand off the lenses will eventually scratch them

That sounds like a great trip.

Louis

[crushers]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

You say HZJ75 with a modified box- do you mean troopie or pickup? I think I'd stay with a troopie or four door- accessibility is nice and you're not as cramped with a pickup cab. A 61 has a turbo which will help with the elevation, but are they common with five speeds? How common is the 12HT compared to a IHZ?

Personally, I'd get a HZJ75 troopie, load it up with factory options (pto/cable lockers), emu or beltons, and some 7.50R16 Michelin XZYs on factory splits. These tires are available in Europe and Africa, and can get 40K out of a set. Load range G. I'd get a roof tent system not unlike Desert-Tec's, roller drawer the back.

If I wanted a pimped out model, I'd built it like this:
http://www.desert-tec.de/alger6.jpg
http://www.desert-tec.de/desert1.jpg

Michelins so you won't have to pay these guys to play with their cool-ass beadbreaker:
http://www.desert-tec.de/mau4.jpg

they seem to be taken by the HZJ75 with a custom back, they want the back section walled off from the front, i was suggesting a HZJ77 with a lift top roof..
thanks for the link
cheers

[crushers]

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

I would take the 75series if its a troopy,but a cab chassis with a purpose built camper on the back would be better.
Then again the 12HT has a fairly good reputation for reliability and blasting across a continent in a big turbo charged 4 door 4x4 cruiser is kind of appealing.

If its more than 2 people they will need a 4dr.

Its also gonna depend on the time they will be on the road.

Damn it Wayne you could have asked us to choose between a cruiser and a bleep and a patrol or something easy

they are looking at the HJ61 but last night decided they would want the 75...
thanks for the response.
one other option is to lengthen the frame and add a second set of doors to the cab area... it would make the tight trails more challenging though...
cheers

[crushers]

Originally Posted by lshobie

A friend fo mine did a similar trip, he made a very concealed spot for a S&W weeson 357, it saved his life X 2 - and not from animals.

Id go with a troopy, you could check and see the australia long distance setups. I have seen a cold water system hooked up to thier a/c unit.

Oh, and tell them to bring a few pair of sunglasses, constant wiping of sand off the lenses will eventually scratch them

That sounds like a great trip.

Louis

the S&W will have to be their choice, i can make a spot for it as well as a lockable hidden compartment for valuables...
cheers

[Jan-78FJ40]

my first thought was to go without a turbo. I know it is not rational, and they will suffer at high elevations without one, but most of the trip will be at moderate altitude.
Also, having been to Africa a couple of times, they need watertight sleeping options, since they will see a LOT of rain. I am not sure if a rooftop tent provides that in the long run.
One more thing is a very sturdy lockable compartment somewhere hidden. they will come over as rich in comparison, and that creates opportunity. in my (limited) experience, the best way to avoid getting broken into the vehicle is to not lock it, but keep the valuables somehwere well hidden.
Jan

[crushers]

good advice, thanks.
let me know if you have any favorite links i can go over...
cheers

[ridgerunner]

Here's one most have probably seen:
http://www.africa-overland.net/world.html

[Alacrity]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

Here's one most have probably seen:
http://www.africa-overland.net/world.html

Was going to suggest that, many links are dead - least they were last I checked. General info is good regardless of time, but make sure they have a good handle on current conditions. Not from some website 5 years old. Conditions change quickly.

Other than above - esp the same thought on the turbo - couple of things to consider. The roads will be tough on the suspension and brittle/unsupported wiring. Fuel is often poor and contaminated - provisions should be made for additional filtering. They should inspect any fuel prior to filling - clear tube works - and make sure they are filled from what was inspected. Security screens on windows are wise, as are brush screens over lights etc. If it can be screwed off it may be if left unattended.

They need increased and reserve fuel, electrical and cooling capacity (although in general LCs are decent here). Obviously a split system. Good lights - night driving should be avoided but they need good patterns as well as distance. Good Cloth seats - cloth.

Dont go to heavy on roof storage or height. Make sure interior is provided with tie downs/nets. Think ship storage. Watch anything that looks military - inc vehicle paint color - avoid ammo can storage etc. Go with two locking security compartments. One accessable, one hidden well. if they can be water proof, even better. As far as the advisability of firearms, as you said - THEY need to understand wholly this issue - wholly.

As far as Books - The Vehicle Dependent Expedition Guide by Tom Sheppard is good, if a little dated. Was online at RGS.com. Couple of others that are good - one by a guy named Pierre(?), check some of the Overland Travel sites. Check out Turtle Expeditions for some box layouts, theres a German Company that does Mog campers that had some good ideas online. There was a Tatra or Pingzauer site that had some long range camper examples as well.

Which of the three is best? Any cruiser would be good, sorts out to preference and intended usage - more comfort/less nimble with a box. People have been traveling the continent sucessfully for quite some time with lesser vehicles, its. Check out some of the Land Rover Series Trucks that have gone around the world. In Africa, the availabilty of parts and repair stations are much better now than they were 30 years ago. With the advent of international air freight, not nearly the issue it used to be - tho you can still get in a pickle. Currently, the roads are often worse.

They'll have a good time. Major threat is traffic - accidents are what will give you most issues. Maybe thats why the guys mentioned above converted RH to LH drive - to conform with local traffic? Since they are SA, so they dont fall into old RH habits? Was told Virgin Islands had more accidents per capita because they drive LH vehicles but RH laws.

Luck
Alac

[cruiser_guy]

Wayne,
I've seen some folks come through on big trips and the bigger and fancier the truck is the more is shouts "I'm RICH, steal from me!" When you and your client have decided on what he thinks he wants. Step back and look at it as if you lived on a couple of dollars a day! If it looks rich, try to tone things down.
Don't go without a turbo though. One of my philosophies here in Central America is if they are going to hijack me they got to catch me first! I know that sounds strange in North America especially since I'm driving a 3B turbo but my truck can beat out 50% or more of the vehicles here quite easily and will probably give over 75% a run for the money! Without a turbo at this elevation and that would not be the case. Educate your client in the proper procedure for shutting down a turbo equipped engine (allow the engine to run for a while until the temps are reduced) and the turbo should not let him down.

[ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by Alacrity

Was going to suggest that, many links are dead - least they were last I checked. General info is good regardless of time, but make sure they have a good handle on current conditions. Not from some website 5 years old. Conditions change quickly.

As of 2:54 pacific standard time, only one link is dead-"Peter & Kay Forwood Round The World Trip." Conditions may change and the sites may be old, but they still have some good ideas on how to setup a vehicle.

[Alacrity]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

As of 2:54 pacific standard time, only one link is dead-"Peter & Kay Forwood Round The World Trip." Conditions may change and the sites may be old, but they still have some good ideas on how to setup a vehicle.

Ridge:

Last I was there (fall) I musta googled up this page - so much for my awareness:

http://www.africa-overland.net/lost_links.html

We're on the same page about the usefulness of net info for vehicles - why I indicated general info was good regardless of time - but take other info with a grain of salt. My comment was directed more towards political, infrastructure, etc.

Like the ease or severity of particular border crossings (or even the policies or experiences regarding a particlar countries entry policies). Or the condition or existence of roads. Ive found people rely on/get scared off due to anecdotal or plain dated information. My experiences in N Africa nearly 20 years ago arent of much planning value now. But my understanding concerning Bolivia is much different than one would take away from common media coverage - tho I didnt get down there this winter.

The most likely issue affecting an overlanders enjoyment of the trip is political chicanery - graft, custom delays and "misunderstandings" - as anyone who's travled through Muhammed Murtala can attest. Tho I'm told by recent travelers the semi-official graft and inefficiencies have been reduced to a mere annoyance - perhaps it finally migrated to Abuja.

Im not saying you need a formal assessment from Oatman, but some timely, eyes-on info, along with some guidance from, assuming Canadian, Consular Affairs, will help make what more than likely a once in a lifetime adventure much more enjoyable. Hope they have enjoyable trek.

Luck
Alac

[crushers]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

Here's one most have probably seen:
http://www.africa-overland.net/world.html

excellent site,
thanks

[Jim_Phillips]

I have done the same trip several times -

Which route will your client be taking? There are really two possibilities - up to Tanzania / Kenya and then turn left into central Africa and on up through West Africa and the Sahara. Or, straight up heading for Egypt. If he is heading into central Africa then he is taking on a big challenge. He will need to be pretty much self reliant with most spares. Fuel will also be an issue. If he is heading for Egypt then spares are more accessable. (He would be better in a Landrover as LR spares are more plentiful and cheaper + plenty of locals that know how to fix them) But a Cruiser won't brake down... or so the argument goes!

Southern and Eastern Africa can be crossed in almost any vehicle nowadays. North and West of Kenya and you need 4x4. Kit him out with a good roof tent. Plenty of storage, spares, medical. Teach him how to mend puctures. Sand ladders are indispensible if you don't have a winch. Actually, he should have sand ladders for either route as well as a winch. Water purification systems are good. Rig up lights from seperate battery system for night time. An axe is very important (self defence and wood chopping) Box of flares can be useful against scary animals. Weld a safe somewhere to the vehicle. Better make that 2 safes - one for stuff he can afford to lose (if made to) and one for the really important stuff (like majority of cash etc) Take a couple of comfy armchairs and a good supply of scotch.

Wish him luck, Jim

[crushers]

very good advice.
he is getting setup for 2 weeks of self sufficiency in case of emergency. he will have a sat phone as well as GPS.
2 spares, we are looking at Goodyear G171 tires that have the steel belted sidewall and 10 ply base as well as a special sand tire, not sure which way he is going yet on the tires.
as for the route the wife can rhyme off all the stops and directions faster than i can hear them.
in the planning is provision for 100L of water, 1000 km of fuel, full parts supply, 2 spares, roof top tent of maybe interior depending on whether he is going with a complete fibeglass custom back.
armour shield on all the glass.
i will post more if they get me to build the unit or not.
please keep the suggestions coming.
cheers and thanks